Colorado all in 23-24

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Créé par: Thorne

Équipe: 2023-24 Avalanche du Colorado

Date de création initiale: 20 avr. 2023

Publié: 20 avr. 2023

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

Enough capspace to acquire 3C and RD on trade deadline to push Eller to 4C and Malinski out of lineup. Front office can alternatively choose to trade Toews instead of Girard to potentially extend the cap window and gain some extra assets. Malinski is expected to make the lineup, while Mikkola is signed to provide a physical and defensively responsible partner to pair him with. In this proposal 23-24 is treated as the last potential season Colorado is a true contender. Mainly due to expiring contracts of Lindholm, Toews and Luostarinen. For 24-25 Toews, Francouz and Eller give 8,100,000$ cap relief, while Behrens, Kovalenko, Foudy and Annunen are expected to enter the lineup, which gives enough to sign Lindholm to an 8 year contract. Luostarinen, Malgin and Meyers also have expiring contracts, but as all of them are RFA's some assets can be regained if there isn't enough capspace to resign. Manson's full NTC ends after the season, so he can be traded for future considerations for teams like Arizona, Anaheim or Buffalo that have the needed capspace, but also need an experienced RD. Vladislav Kamenev should also be considered as an option to fill the position of 3C/4C, but it is not likely he will sign.

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

LISTE DE RÉSERVE		ANS	CAP HIT
Leivermann, Nick		1	925 000 $
Stienburg, Matthew		2	925 000 $

RFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Aamodt, Wyatt	1	925 000 $
Annunen, Justus	1	925 000 $
Clurman, Nathan	1	925 000 $
Maltsev, Mikhail	1	925 000 $
Merkley, Ryan	1	925 000 $
Meyers, Ben	1	925 000 $
Ranta, Sampo	1	925 000 $
Byram, Bowen	2	4 000 000 $
Malgin, Denis	1	1 000 000 $

UFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Mikkola, Niko	2	2 000 000 $
Eller, Lars	1	2 000 000 $
Hudon, Charles	1	925 000 $
Johansson, Jonas	1	925 000 $
Nieto, Matt	1	925 000 $
Galchenyuk, Alex	1	925 000 $

Transactions

COL

Lindholm, Elias (2 425 000 $ retained)

CGY

Newhook, Alex [Droits de RFA]
Olausson, Oskar
Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (COL)
Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (COL)
Choix de 1e ronde en 2025 (COL)

Détails additionnels:

Is probably too much but front office should be willing to spend whatever it takes, -24 first rounder should be made unprotected before adding -25 first to the offer. I think Newhook+Olausson+2023 first should do it.

COL

Luostarinen, Eetu

Détails additionnels:

Gives Colorado a versatile forward for a cheap caphit that can also fill-in for the injury prone top-6 wingers if needed. Gives much needed depth for the playoffs and can also make the transition to 3C, if Colorado decides to go for a middle-six winger at deadline instead of 3C.

FLA

Girard, Samuel

Détails additionnels:

Fills a position of need for FLA. Luostarinen isn't going to fetch top4 LD after 23-24 as his caphit is going to increase to around 4,000,000$. After the trade FLA has 6,000,000€ in capspace to re-sign Gudas and White, while still accruing capspace for the deadline to sign a middle-six winger.

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2023
2024
2025

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
21	82 500 000 $	80 775 000 $	637 500 $	0 $	1 725 000 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Landeskog, Gabriel 7 000 000 $7 000 000 $ AG, C NMC UFA - 6	MacKinnon, Nathan 12 600 000 $12 600 000 $ C NMC UFA - 8	Rantanen, Mikko 9 250 000 $9 250 000 $ AD, C M-NTC UFA - 2
Lehkonen, Artturi 4 500 000 $4 500 000 $ AG, AD NTC UFA - 4	Lindholm, Elias 2 425 000 $2 425 000 $ C, AD UFA - 1	Nichushkin, Valeri 6 125 000 $6 125 000 $ AD, AG NMC UFA - 7
Luostarinen, Eetu 1 500 000 $1 500 000 $ AG, C UFA - 1	Eller, Lars 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ C UFA - 2	Malgin, Denis 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ AG, AD UFA
Nieto, Matt 925 000 $925 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 2	Meyers, Ben 925 000 $925 000 $ AG, C UFA - 1	O'Connor, Logan 1 050 000 $1 050 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 2

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Toews, Devon 4 100 000 $4 100 000 $ DG UFA - 1	Makar, Cale 9 000 000 $9 000 000 $ DD UFA - 4	Georgiev, Alexandar 3 400 000 $3 400 000 $ G UFA - 2
Byram, Bowen 4 000 000 $4 000 000 $ DG/DD RFA - 2	Manson, Josh 4 500 000 $4 500 000 $ DD NTC UFA - 3	Francouz, Pavel 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ G UFA - 1
Mikkola, Niko 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ DG UFA - 3	Malinski, Sam 850 000 $850 000 $ DD RFA - 2
MacDermid, Kurtis 987 500 $987 500 $ DG/DD, AG UFA - 1

20 avr. 2023 à 17 h 58

MoSeider53

Future Norris guy

Rejoint: août 2022

Messages: 15,605

Mentions "j'aime": 8,625

Talk about massive overpay for Elias Lindholm, And curious where you're going to come up with the 8x8 to sign him in the summer of 2024?

TJTwolf a aimé ceci.

20 avr. 2023 à 18 h 6

RonaldBilius

Banni

Rejoint: sept. 2021

Messages: 781

Mentions "j'aime": 269

bottom 3 team

20 avr. 2023 à 18 h 9

Thorne

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: avr. 2023

Messages: 28

Mentions "j'aime": 11

"For 24-25 Toews, Francouz and Eller give 8,100,000$ cap relief, while Behrens, Kovalenko, Foudy and Annunen are expected to enter the lineup, which gives enough to sign Lindholm to an 8 year contract." I also outlined that frontoffice should spend whatever it takes to acquire Lindholm, remaining assets are to be used for the Girard-Luostarinen trade if 1 for 1 isn't enough, and for the deadline to acquire 3C and RD.

20 avr. 2023 à 19 h 34

MoSeider53

Future Norris guy

Rejoint: août 2022

Messages: 15,605

Mentions "j'aime": 8,625

Quoting: Thorne

Good luck, You've roughly $13,000,000 in salary cap this summer. I'm pretty sure that Sakic isn't signing one year deals. So that $13,000,000 will eat into the $25,000,000 for next year leaving the Avalanche with even less money to spend. Like i said good luck on the Elias lindholm front. Plus other teams have more to offer Calgary for Lindholm than Colorado.

TJTwolf a aimé ceci.

20 avr. 2023 à 20 h 20

Thorne

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: avr. 2023

Messages: 28

Mentions "j'aime": 11

Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61

For the roster players only Mikkola, Byram, Meyers, Malgin and Eller are signings for the 23-24 season. Mikkola is a 3rd pairing D so 2x2 is the appropriate contract, since term isn't usually given to depth defensemen, Byram is signed for 4x2 bridge deal, and I don't think either of the camps want to have a long term deal at this point. Eller is an aging centerman, I don't think any teams are going to give him term. Malgin and Meyers are on prove it-type of deals, and they wouldn't even get much more if they were given more term, in my proposal Colorado has over 2,000,000 capspace, and some of it could be used to give Malgin and Meyers additional years. As for the Elias Lindholm, I don't think rebuilding teams are willing to offer as much for him as contending teams, as a fringe 1C signed for bit over 2M has far more value for contenders.

20 avr. 2023 à 21 h 53

TJTwolf

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 9,609

Mentions "j'aime": 4,586

Mahoosive overpay for a rental. Which is what Lindholm would be in reality.

20 avr. 2023 à 22 h 38

Thorne

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: avr. 2023

Messages: 28

Mentions "j'aime": 11

Quoting: TJTwolf

Mahoosive overpay for a rental. Which is what Lindholm would be in reality.

Fringe 1C's are not cheap, remember what O'reilly fetched? He fetched 1st rounder which was predicted to be mid first round pick, disappointing low first round pick 2 seasons ago (Olausson), 2nd round pick (I don't think Newhook is worth more). At that point Thompson already had NHL games under his belt while Olausson has done pretty much nothing at AHL level. O'Reilly had more term than Lindholm, but Lindholm is at an extremely cheap cap hit for a contender looking to go all in. You should also consider that O'reilly was widely considered to be underpayment from STL and also contained 2 roster players.

20 avr. 2023 à 22 h 42

TJTwolf

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 9,609

Mentions "j'aime": 4,586

Quoting: Thorne

Your undervaluation of Newhook and a mass of first round picks is ludicrous. You're utterly out of your mind if you think Colorado pays that for a rental. Sorry but you simply are.

20 avr. 2023 à 22 h 52

Thorne

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: avr. 2023

Messages: 28

Mentions "j'aime": 11

Quoting: TJTwolf

Your undervaluation of Newhook and a mass of first round picks is ludicrous. You're utterly out of your mind if you think Colorado pays that for a rental. Sorry but you simply are.

It is not a rental, COL has the space necessary to sign him to 8x8 after the season ends, as explained in the description. Also I don't think Olausson+Newhook is that much different in value compared to Thompson+2021 2nd. Colorados 2024 1st is far smaller value than STL 2019 1st.

20 avr. 2023 à 23 h 1

#10

TJTwolf

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 9,609

Mentions "j'aime": 4,586

Quoting: Thorne

We have no idea on the value of the '24 1st yet, it's likely a higher pick, and yes it's a rental. That's before we add in the extra firsts and your under evaluation of Newhook. You can make the maths work for pretty much anything. IF a player signs this, IF a player does that. In REALITY however it's a rental. Therefore it's too much. I'd say it's too much even if not a rental. There's also the question of not whether the Avs CAN but whether they SHOULD, and there is no doubt in my mind and I think pretty much everyone else here other than yourself and Calgary fans that they shouldn't do this. Crazy!

20 avr. 2023 à 23 h 31

#11

Thorne

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: avr. 2023

Messages: 28

Mentions "j'aime": 11

Quoting: TJTwolf

STL wasn't any more knowledgeable on the value of their '19 1st, however they were not considered to be contender unlike 23-24 COL. Also I don't think there is anything unrealistic about the calculations, you should criticize the decision to let Toews walk and the decision to trade Girard, since by those moves the space for Lindholm is created. Also if you are so eager to criticize my proposed trade for Lindholm, why won't you state what you would be willing to trade for him?

20 avr. 2023 à 23 h 44

#12

TJTwolf

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 9,609

Mentions "j'aime": 4,586

Quoting: Thorne

No they weren't but it was the last pick of the draft so to compare it now and say Colorado's is far less in value is wrong. We can't know what it WILL be, we know what STL's was. The Avs pick can't possibly be of lower value. Whether they knew at the time or not is irrelevant. I hadn't even got as far as criticising those. Thanks for pointing out that stupidity as well yourself. You seem pretty upset that anyone should criticise your trades. Why? Kind of the point of it. Mine get criticised too and I'd argue they've been far closer to reality, but I don't get hung up on it much. Think I've already made it clear that I wouldn't trade for Lindholm. Calgary will want more than the Avs should give. Pretty simple that. Especially when there are guys they could probably acquire for far less in the way of assets (Kuznetsov for example).

20 avr. 2023 à 23 h 51

#13

Thorne

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: avr. 2023

Messages: 28

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Quoting: TJTwolf

Trades are compared to what they were at the time of trade, not at the outcome. Buying lottery ticket is still an irrational decision, eventhough you would win it. Also I'm not upset at all that you criticize my proposal, I would just like to have some further reasoning. Also I didn't ask you tell a realistic trade proposal that would work, I asked to tell what is the maximum you would pay for Lindholm, whether CAL would accept or not.

21 avr. 2023 à 0 h 3

#14

TJTwolf

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 9,609

Mentions "j'aime": 4,586

Quoting: Thorne

No. to make the statement you made it's not. 'Colorados 2024 1st is far smaller value than STL 2019 1st.' Incorrect. We know the value of STL's, we don't know the value of COL's, other than that it can only be the same or more. If you meant that STL's 1st value wasn't known at the time of the trade that's a different thing altogether and even so we still don't know the value of COL's. I think I've given you all the reasoning you should need. It's an overpay by miles, and I've already told you I wouldn't trade for Lindholm, and given you the reasoning for that, and again you've altered what you stated. You asked what I would be willing to trade for him and I told you, I wouldn't trade for him at all. He simply isn't a realistic target imo.

21 avr. 2023 à 0 h 24

#15

Thorne

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: avr. 2023

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Quoting: TJTwolf

Well, thank you anyways for the feedback, I appreciate if someone is willing to spend their own time to give me feedback, whether I find it useful or not.

TJTwolf a aimé ceci.

21 avr. 2023 à 0 h 29

#16

TJTwolf

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 9,609

Mentions "j'aime": 4,586

Modifié 21 avr. 2023 à 0 h 36

Quoting: Thorne

Well, thank you anyways for the feedback, I appreciate if someone is willing to spend their own time to give me feedback, whether I find it useful or not.

One thing I'll give you, however vehemently I disagree with it. Credit for thinking it through. I may not agree with the 'logic' behind it, and as I said we can all make the numbers add up on here if we want to, but you have at least thought the idea through. That part, not so crazy!

Thorne a aimé ceci.

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