im not here to argue semantics bro. Ive argued with you countless times and you have never once used any stats. You only support your favorite team and ignore the fact that there is more to the world than just your biased opinion. I didnt spend countless hours working on this for you to come here and just say how good your players are without any facts, data or stats. So please, leave unless you are going to make an argument backed with statistics

In the NHL last season minimum 50 games played, Demko was 3rd in 5v5 WAR, 3rd in 5v5 GSAx, 3rd in 5v5 save %, 5th in GSAx/60

There are your stats. Stay clueless

First of all, penalties exist and you cannot take away an entire part of the game. Second, no idea where u found him to have 3rd in 5v5 GSAx when evolving hockey has him at 9th.

And i know FOR A FACT that you are lying because on evolving hockey, he has 630 more minutes than Shesertkin (#1), 628 more minutes than Sorokin (2nd), 5 more than Markstrom (3rd), 442 more than Kuemper, 629 more than Freddy Anderson (5th), and 285 more than Jarry (6th) yet still has less GSAx, so that per 60 argument is complete bogus. That is five players who have higher GSAx with less time. There are more such as Vasi (60 more minutes but when you do GSAx/TOI you still get higher fraction than for Demko), Husso, Bobrovsky, Hellebucyk and Saros (again more TOI but better fractions).

Now, its obvious that you are a liar. You have blatantly lied about the stats and where he ranks. Unfortunately for you, I spend money to get these stats because I like to use them, so I cant just be lied to.

No chance you respond to me now that I have dismantled your entire argument, but I would love for you to explain to me whey you made up where he ranked. This forum is not for liars and fake stats, its for constructive and progressive discussion and debate. So PLEASE keep it that way. You wouldnt want me to go to your forums and lie, so i expect the same from you

moneypuck.com

It is free to use. Feel free to check it out. I’m not spending money on an evolving hockey subscription. We got stats from different places. If different cites have different information, there is no point in arguing. I’ve made my case, there is still no justification of having Oettinger over Demko

bro Demko is literally 29th is GSAx/60 ON THIS WEBSITE. Like what. Did you just make it up? Or what. How did you find him to be 5th. Also they used the same exact calculations. All stats are the same on each website

Do you understand the concept of minimum games played? The top 9 all have less than 6 games played. Such a small sample size is irrelevant. By your logic, Josef Korenar is the best goalie in the league

small sample size would be irrelevant if this was not on a per 60 minute basis lmao. Even with your logic, he is 13th for goalies with minimum 40 games. So youre still wrong lol. We could do minimum 50 games and he is 11th. 55 games and he is not even top 5 there. I guess you tried to convince me that no goalie with less than 60 games should be counted since he is 5th among goalies with min 60 games, but there were also only 5 goalies last season who played 60 or more games.

Also obviously for a goalie who played 1 game like Schneider it doesnt matter, but for goalies with 28 games like Mike Smith its big enough.

Now what about Oettinger? You're missing my whole point. Demko is better than Oettinger in every single category, 5v5 or not. I guess Spencer Martin should be Vancouver's starter goaltender instead of Demko. Spencer Martin has a higher GSAx/60 minutes in his 6 games played. Truly an elite goalie am I right?

Wow you are so pressed. you lied about the stats and now refuse to acknowledge that. Then you deflect. I also agreed that goalies with very small sample sizes should not be considered elite due to their small sample sizes, just pointed out that someone with 20+ games, and 50+, are all within sample size and that using the sample size argument in a per 60 stat will not help you strengthen your point. I also never made the argument that they should be considered, you just straw-maned that so you could give yourself a victory.

But here is what I will say. Oettinger had a 1.24 higher GSAx/60 using Oettingers playoffs vs Demko's regular season. Oettinger played better when it mattered more, plain and simple.

But again, you lied. Straight up, lied. Which is quite sad.

But you said Demko is better than oettinger in, and I quote, "every single category, 5v5 or not"

So, here we go:
Oettinger is better in:
- Save% on unblocked shots
- xSave% on unblocked shots
- Rebounds per save
- xRebounds per save
- Rebounds above expected
- High danger unblocked shot attempt save%
- x High danger unblocked shot attempt save%
- High danger unblocked shot attempt save% above expected

I could go on and use better stats that are exclusively on evolving hockey, such as WAR/TOI x 60 x 82 to calculate their WAR pace over 60 minutes over an entire season but you would just complain about that too. So once again I proved you wrong. Feel free to come back at me with obsolete stats that mean nothing but there is one thing that you should realize, you have given me more reasons to move Demko down that to move him up. You have forced me to dive into what makes him so good, and he is a fraud. He is not a top tier goalie, he is below it. Thank you for that

And finally, Oetttinger's placement is a result of projections. Historically, elite goalie prospects who have dominated at junior and non-NHL pro levels at U20 ages, then enter the NHL as an above average goalie have continued their trajectory and become elite goaltenders. We have seen that recently with Sorokin and Shesterkin, both of whom dominated in the KHL, Shesterkin with great AHL numbers and then great NHL numbers and Sorokin immediately being a top 15 goalie, along with goaltenders like Bishop and Hellebucyk a few years ago, and we are seeing now with Wallstedt and Askarov. Goalies are hard to predict but we can use trends, and Oettinger was on a historic pace for such a young goaltender in the playoffs that we have great reason to believe that his development will continue to thrive

Wow good job you found all the least useful stats where Oettinger excelled in. Now compare Demko's 2020 bubble run to Oettinger's recent run. Can't tell me Demko doesn't show up for playoffs

bro you keep changing your argument lmao. I ranked these players for 2022-23, not from 2020. You are actually so painful to argue with. Demko is a great goalie, so is Oettinger.

it is a shame that i spent hours on this posts and you leave comments like this lol. whatever bro.

also never said he doesnt show up for the playoffs.