Forums/Armchair-GM

Experimenting A Marner Trade With Every Team - CHI

Date de création initiale: jun 16, 2021
Publié: 16 jun à 11 h 00
Équipe: 2021-22 Blackhawks de Chicago
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Gaudette, Adam1950 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Oleksiak, Jamie23 500 000 $
Hall, Taylor110 000 000 $
Bellemare, Pierre-Édouard11 000 000 $
Paquette, Cédric11 000 000 $
Martinez, Alec15 000 000 $
Transactions
CHI
  1. 2021 1e round pick (FLA)
FLA
  1. De Haan, Calvin
CHI
    SEA
    1. Connolly, Brett
    CHI
    1. Jones, Seth
    CBJ
    1. Suter, Pius [Droits de RFA]
    2. Boqvist, Adam
    3. 2021 1e round pick (CHI)
    CHI
      Bruce Boudreau
      MIN
        *Hired As HC
        CHI
        1. Marner, Mitchell (903 000 $ retained)
        TOR
        1. Kubalik, Dominik
        2. Keith, Duncan
        3. 2021 2e round pick (CHI)
        Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
        • Olli Määttä: 750 108 $ (18%)
        ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
        2021
        FLA
        VGK
        CHI
        VAN
        CHI
        CHI
        FLA
        2022
        CHI
        CHI
        CHI
        VGK
        CHI
        CHI
        CHI
        2023
        CHI
        CHI
        CHI
        CHI
        CHI
        CHI
        CHI
        TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
        2281 500 000 $80 786 714 $452 439 $3 690 000 $713 286 $

        Formation

        Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
        Hall, Taylor
        10 000 000 $
        AG
        NMC
        UFA - 4
        CHI
        Toews, Jonathan
        10 500 000 $
        C
        NMC
        UFA - 2
        CHI
        Kane, Patrick
        10 500 000 $
        AD
        NMC
        UFA - 2
        CHI
        DeBrincat, Alex
        6 400 000 $
        AG, AD
        RFA - 2
        CHI
        Strome, Dylan
        3 000 000 $
        C, AG
        RFA - 1
        TOR
        Marner, Mitchell
        10 000 000 $
        AD
        UFA - 4
        CHI
        Kurashev, Philipp
        842 500 $
        AG, AD
        RFA - 1
        CHI
        Gaudette, Adam
        950 000 $
        C
        RFA
        CHI
        Dach, Kirby
        925 000 $
        C, AD
        RFA - 1
        Paquette, Cédric
        1 000 000 $
        C, AG
        UFA
        Bellemare, Pierre-Édouard
        1 000 000 $
        C, AG
        UFA
        CHI
        Carpenter, Ryan
        1 000 000 $
        AD, C
        UFA - 1
        Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
        Oleksiak, Jamie
        3 500 000 $
        DG
        NTC
        UFA - 5
        CHI
        Murphy, Connor
        3 850 000 $
        DD
        UFA - 1
        CHI
        Lankinen, Kevin
        800 000 $
        G
        UFA - 1
        Martinez, Alec
        5 000 000 $
        DG
        UFA
        CBJ
        Jones, Seth
        5 400 000 $
        DD
        NTC
        UFA - 1
        CHI
        Subban, Malcolm
        850 000 $
        G
        UFA - 1
        CHI
        Stillman, Riley
        1 350 000 $
        DG
        RFA - 3
        CHI
        Mitchell, Ian
        925 000 $
        DD
        RFA - 2
        Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
        CHI
        Reichel, Lukas
        925 000 $
        AG, C
        RFA - 3
        CHI
        Seabrook, Brent
        6 875 000 $
        DD
        NMC
        UFA - 3
        CHI
        Regula, Alec
        866 667 $
        DD
        RFA - 2
        CHI
        Shaw, Andrew
        3 900 000 $
        C, AD
        UFA - 1

        Unités spéciales

        Avantage numérique 1
        , .
        Toews, J.
        Hall, T.
        Martinez, A.
        Kane, P.
        Avantage numérique 2
        Dach, K.
        Strome, D.
        Kurashev, P.
        DeBrincat, A.
        Jones, S.
        Infériorité numérique 1
        Bellemare, P.
        Carpenter, R.
        Oleksiak, J.
        Murphy, C.
        Infériorité numérique 2
        Toews, J.
        Marner, M.
        Martinez, A.
        Jones, S.

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        16 jun à 11 h 00
        #1
        Big Sheary Fan
        Rejoint: avr 2019
        Messages: 2,953
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        What'd you guys think?
        16 jun à 11 h 05
        #2
        Barzals skateblade
        Rejoint: aoû 2020
        Messages: 163
        Mentions "j'aime": 46
        I feel like it's an overpay for Jones. I know he's good but Boqvist and Suter probably does it. Maybe take the first and add it to the Marner trade as I feel like that one is maybe an underpay.
        ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
        16 jun à 11 h 05
        #3
        Roster Architect
        Rejoint: mar 2021
        Messages: 1,564
        Mentions "j'aime": 498
        If Bowman doesn't mention the names Dach or DeBrincat, then it's not even close.
        16 jun à 11 h 11
        #4
        Rejoint: mai 2018
        Messages: 1,445
        Mentions "j'aime": 478
        Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
        What'd you guys think?


        horrible for the leafs, just stop with these trades undervaluing marner, I swear you've been doing this for like 2 years now
        16 jun à 11 h 13
        #5
        Rejoint: mai 2017
        Messages: 4,966
        Mentions "j'aime": 2,237
        Dehaan is worth no where near a 1st, TOR would want more for marner for sure. Hawks easily pass on Jones. He's so over rated. I wouldn't even include Boqvist in any deal for him
        ChiHawk et TrueCanuck a aimé ceci.
        16 jun à 11 h 15
        #6
        Rejoint: mai 2017
        Messages: 4,966
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        Quoting: TrueCanuck
        If Bowman doesn't mention the names Dach or DeBrincat, then it's not even close.


        Both those guys are as untouchable as it gets for the hawks. I wouldn't trade Eigther for Marner 1 for 1 anyways. Cat and Marner are in the same tier of forwards imo, but Cat is 5 mil cheaper. Dach will be the future 1C of this team and is only 20 years old, not trading that for an overpayed, playoff underperformer. TOR can keep him and enjoy cap hell and 1st round exits
        16 jun à 11 h 29
        #7
        Démarrer sujet
        Big Sheary Fan
        Rejoint: avr 2019
        Messages: 2,953
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        Quoting: Theo_nollaf
        I feel like it's an overpay for Jones. I know he's good but Boqvist and Suter probably does it. Maybe take the first and add it to the Marner trade as I feel like that one is maybe an underpay.


        Quoting: Wadejos123
        Dehaan is worth no where near a 1st, TOR would want more for marner for sure. Hawks easily pass on Jones. He's so over rated. I wouldn't even include Boqvist in any deal for him


        Thx for the feedback. IDK what Jones’ value is, he seems like a very polarizing player to me. Some think he’s good, some think he’s bad. If you look at his analytics, he’s been good every year except this season.
        16 jun à 11 h 30
        #8
        Démarrer sujet
        Big Sheary Fan
        Rejoint: avr 2019
        Messages: 2,953
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        Quoting: TrueCanuck
        If Bowman doesn't mention the names Dach or DeBrincat, then it's not even close.


        Quoting: PrimeDatsyuk
        horrible for the leafs, just stop with these trades undervaluing marner, I swear you've been doing this for like 2 years now


        IDK, Kubalike as the center piece should get the deal done. And A Muzzin-Keith pairing is music to my ears.
        16 jun à 11 h 44
        #9
        Rejoint: fév 2016
        Messages: 3,910
        Mentions "j'aime": 904
        Quoting: Theo_nollaf
        I feel like it's an overpay for Jones. I know he's good but Boqvist and Suter probably does it. Maybe take the first and add it to the Marner trade as I feel like that one is maybe an underpay.

        We'd want some other moderately-OK future in place of that 1st (VGK 2nd, maybe?) but otherwise... yeah, that could potentially work. Suter admittedly isn't as high value to us as he might be to others simply because he's yet another offensively-focused defensively-suspect center like we've already been struggling with, but 1) he's not Strome and 2) the inclusion of Boqvist permits quite a bit of forgiveness. smile
        16 jun à 11 h 51
        #10
        Barzals skateblade
        Rejoint: aoû 2020
        Messages: 163
        Mentions "j'aime": 46
        Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
        Thx for the feedback. IDK what Jones’ value is, he seems like a very polarizing player to me. Some think he’s good, some think he’s bad. If you look at his analytics, he’s been good every year except this season.


        Very true. I like his game, but many don't and him being a rental also makes the value very hard to figure out.
        16 jun à 11 h 55
        #11
        Rejoint: avr 2017
        Messages: 12,828
        Mentions "j'aime": 4,310
        Hawks say no to that Colombus trade. We aren't trading BoQ or Suter
        Wadejos123 a aimé ceci.
        16 jun à 11 h 56
        #12
        Rejoint: avr 2017
        Messages: 12,828
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        Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
        IDK, Kubalike as the center piece should get the deal done. And A Muzzin-Keith pairing is music to my ears.


        Yeah, there's not a chance Hawks trade Cat or Dach for Marner....no thank you
        Wadejos123 et Aussie_Blackhawk a aimé ceci.
        16 jun à 12 h 02
        #13
        Roster Architect
        Rejoint: mar 2021
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        Quoting: Wadejos123
        Both those guys are as untouchable as it gets for the hawks. I wouldn't trade Eigther for Marner 1 for 1 anyways. Cat and Marner are in the same tier of forwards imo, but Cat is 5 mil cheaper. Dach will be the future 1C of this team and is only 20 years old, not trading that for an overpayed, playoff underperformer. TOR can keep him and enjoy cap hell and 1st round exits


        All bias opinion aside, you really think DeBrincat and Marner are in the same tier of forwards? Marner is a top 10 winger. DeBrincat is no where close to that level.
        16 jun à 12 h 25
        #14
        Rejoint: mai 2018
        Messages: 1,445
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        Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
        IDK, Kubalike as the center piece should get the deal done. And A Muzzin-Keith pairing is music to my ears.


        no man, it wouldn't.
        16 jun à 12 h 34
        #15
        Rejoint: mai 2017
        Messages: 4,966
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        Quoting: TrueCanuck
        All bias opinion aside, you really think DeBrincat and Marner are in the same tier of forwards? Marner is a top 10 winger. DeBrincat is no where close to that level.


        Debrincat is a top 10 winger. 3rd in the league in goals (1st among wingers) and 18th in points (9th among wingers) . Every winger above him in points is older than him and has been in the league longer. His cap hit is lower than 13 of the 17 guys above him in points (40ish % lower than marners). Cat plays PP and PK. I'm not saying he's better than marner but they are for sure in the same tier of top 10 wingers. Kucherov, Stone, Pasta, Kane, Marner, Marchand, Huberdeau, Raantanen, Debrincat, Kaprizov, Guentzel, Landeskog all kinda fall in the same tier for me. Some clearly are better than others but all can be argued as top 10 wingers no doubt
        16 jun à 12 h 36
        #16
        Rejoint: mai 2017
        Messages: 4,966
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        Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
        IDK, Kubalike as the center piece should get the deal done. And A Muzzin-Keith pairing is music to my ears.


        I would rather keep kubalik than than trade him for marner tbh. I would do this deal but Toronto would want Kubalik+ and I don't want to pay the premium of the +. Team building is about best managing the 81.5 million cap and I firmly believe Kubalik at 3.7 is much better team building than marner for 11. Marner is awesome but not 7.2 million dollars better.
        Aussie_Blackhawk a aimé ceci.
        16 jun à 13 h 08
        #17
        Roster Architect
        Rejoint: mar 2021
        Messages: 1,564
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        Quoting: Wadejos123
        Debrincat is a top 10 winger. 3rd in the league in goals (1st among wingers) and 18th in points (9th among wingers) . Every winger above him in points is older than him and has been in the league longer. His cap hit is lower than 13 of the 17 guys above him in points (40ish % lower than marners). Cat plays PP and PK. I'm not saying he's better than marner but they are for sure in the same tier of top 10 wingers. Kucherov, Stone, Pasta, Kane, Marner, Marchand, Huberdeau, Raantanen, Debrincat, Kaprizov, Guentzel, Landeskog all kinda fall in the same tier for me. Some clearly are better than others but all can be argued as top 10 wingers no doubt


        Since when does cap hit determine how good a player is? That narrative needs to go to rest.

        DeBrincat is not a top 10 winger. His highest point total to date is 76 points and he's only cracked 60 points once. That's not top 10 winger material.
        16 jun à 13 h 40
        #18
        Rejoint: mai 2017
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        Quoting: TrueCanuck
        Since when does cap hit determine how good a player is? That narrative needs to go to rest.

        DeBrincat is not a top 10 winger. His highest point total to date is 76 points and he's only cracked 60 points once. That's not top 10 winger material.


        Was on pace for 50 goals and 88 points this year. Don't cherry pick the stats. Covid shortening this season doesn't take away from what he did. Two years ago he had 41 goals in 70 some games also. He's like top 5 in goals the last 3 years combined. Thats top 10 winger material.

        Cap hit matters. This argument started with me saying I wouldn't trade cat or dach for marner 1 for 1. Team building is about best using the 81.5 mil cap. I think debrincat at 6.4 mil is much better use of cap than Marner at 11 mil and I will stand by that. Cap hit matters.
        thesaadfather et Beetlejuice a aimé ceci.
        16 jun à 14 h 03
        #19
        Roster Architect
        Rejoint: mar 2021
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        Quoting: Wadejos123
        Was on pace for 50 goals and 88 points this year. Don't cherry pick the stats. Covid shortening this season doesn't take away from what he did. Two years ago he had 41 goals in 70 some games also. He's like top 5 in goals the last 3 years combined. Thats top 10 winger material.

        Cap hit matters. This argument started with me saying I wouldn't trade cat or dach for marner 1 for 1. Team building is about best using the 81.5 mil cap. I think debrincat at 6.4 mil is much better use of cap than Marner at 11 mil and I will stand by that. Cap hit matters.


        Quoting: Wadejos123
        Was on pace for 50 goals and 88 points this year. Don't cherry pick the stats. Covid shortening this season doesn't take away from what he did. Two years ago he had 41 goals in 70 some games also. He's like top 5 in goals the last 3 years combined. Thats top 10 winger material.

        Cap hit matters. This argument started with me saying I wouldn't trade cat or dach for marner 1 for 1. Team building is about best using the 81.5 mil cap. I think debrincat at 6.4 mil is much better use of cap than Marner at 11 mil and I will stand by that. Cap hit matters.


        "On pace" is just a lame excuse for someone that could have done something. It actually means nothing in terms of value.

        Hey at one point, Nylander had 19 points in 15 games, in pace for 103 points. Doesn't that mean he's worth the same amount as someone who actually had 100 points? Like McDavid. ... no. It's a BS point that people try to use to make a player look better. Reality is, he had 56 points this year. You have no idea if he maintains his pace over a full regular season so that point is useless.

        The argument actually started when you said DeBrinat was in the same tier as Marner. So contract's are thrown out. "Same tier means same skill level or similar players and DeBrincat is not a top 10 winger.

        In no order:
        Marner, Panarin, Kucherov, Huberdeau, Rantanen, Marchand, Kane, Pastrnak, Kane, and Stone are all miles better. DeBrincat doesn't crack that list. Therefore he is not a top 10 winger.

        Only bias Chicago fans think he's a top 10 winger. lmao.
        16 jun à 15 h 18
        #20
        Rejoint: mai 2017
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        Quoting: TrueCanuck
        "On pace" is just a lame excuse for someone that could have done something. It actually means nothing in terms of value.

        Hey at one point, Nylander had 19 points in 15 games, in pace for 103 points. Doesn't that mean he's worth the same amount as someone who actually had 100 points? Like McDavid. ... no. It's a BS point that people try to use to make a player look better. Reality is, he had 56 points this year. You have no idea if he maintains his pace over a full regular season so that point is useless.

        The argument actually started when you said DeBrinat was in the same tier as Marner. So contract's are thrown out. "Same tier means same skill level or similar players and DeBrincat is not a top 10 winger.

        In no order:
        Marner, Panarin, Kucherov, Huberdeau, Rantanen, Marchand, Kane, Pastrnak, Kane, and Stone are all miles better. DeBrincat doesn't crack that list. Therefore he is not a top 10 winger.

        Only bias Chicago fans think he's a top 10 winger. lmao.


        He's definetly better than Evander Kane lol, and other than that your list has 9 players. Sounds like he's top 10 to me. The "on pace" argument is a lot different if I was expanding 15 games to all 82. I'm using it to show how what he did in a 56 game covid shortened season would look like over 82 games. 15 games and 56 games are two very different things
        16 jun à 17 h 51
        #21
        Roster Architect
        Rejoint: mar 2021
        Messages: 1,564
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        Quoting: Wadejos123
        He's definetly better than Evander Kane lol, and other than that your list has 9 players. Sounds like he's top 10 to me. The "on pace" argument is a lot different if I was expanding 15 games to all 82. I'm using it to show how what he did in a 56 game covid shortened season would look like over 82 games. 15 games and 56 games are two very different things


        That wasn't Evander Kane. That was Patrick Kane...

        & funny how you can use the "on pace" excuse but when it's used in a different context to prove you wrong, all of a sudden you say it's not valid? This only makes my point more that "on pace" is a joke excuse to use.

        DeBrincat is not a top 10 winger. Marner is. Marner is more valuable.
        16 jun à 18 h 38
        #22
        Rejoint: mai 2017
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        Quoting: TrueCanuck
        That wasn't Evander Kane. That was Patrick Kane...

        & funny how you can use the "on pace" excuse but when it's used in a different context to prove you wrong, all of a sudden you say it's not valid? This only makes my point more that "on pace" is a joke excuse to use.

        DeBrincat is not a top 10 winger. Marner is. Marner is more valuable.


        Quoting: TrueCanuck
        "On pace" is just a lame excuse for someone that could have done something. It actually means nothing in terms of value.

        Hey at one point, Nylander had 19 points in 15 games, in pace for 103 points. Doesn't that mean he's worth the same amount as someone who actually had 100 points? Like McDavid. ... no. It's a BS point that people try to use to make a player look better. Reality is, he had 56 points this year. You have no idea if he maintains his pace over a full regular season so that point is useless.

        The argument actually started when you said DeBrinat was in the same tier as Marner. So contract's are thrown out. "Same tier means same skill level or similar players and DeBrincat is not a top 10 winger.

        In no order:
        Marner, Panarin, Kucherov, Huberdeau, Rantanen, Marchand, Kane, Pastrnak, Kane, and Stone are all miles better. DeBrincat doesn't crack that list. Therefore he is not a top 10 winger.

        Only bias Chicago fans think he's a top 10 winger. lmao.


        1. You've got Kane on the list twice as you will see, so yeah I assume Patrick and Evander as the second.

        2. On pace definetly isn't valid at like 10 games but makes sense over 56. 56 was the full season. Does this season not count for stats just because it was shortened? Can we negotiate with Debricat when his next contract is up and say he only scored 50 some point this year so he's not worth x amount of dollars? No we can't do that. What you are saying makes no sense
        16 jun à 19 h 17
        #23
        Roster Architect
        Rejoint: mar 2021
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        Quoting: Wadejos123
        1. You've got Kane on the list twice as you will see, so yeah I assume Patrick and Evander as the second.

        2. On pace definetly isn't valid at like 10 games but makes sense over 56. 56 was the full season. Does this season not count for stats just because it was shortened? Can we negotiate with Debricat when his next contract is up and say he only scored 50 some point this year so he's not worth x amount of dollars? No we can't do that. What you are saying makes no sense


        1 - my bad, it was supposed to be Kaprizov. Must have autocorrected somehow

        2 - you negotiate with DeBrincat saying he got 56 points this season because that's what he got. When you go into an arbitration hearing, the arbitrator looks at what you've done, not what you could have done. "On pace means nothing" and if you can't use it for other sample sizes, you can't use it for your argument point just to try to be right when you're not. Point paces are not brought up in contract talks. Production is.


        DeBrincat is not a top 10 winger and points or goals over a certain amount of time don't determine that. By that logic, I guess Auston Matthews is the best player in the league, because since 2016 he has the highest goals per game. Do that make him the best player?

        In no order, here are wingers that are undoubtedly better than DeBrincat:
        Marner, Marchand, P. Kane, Rantanen, Huberdeau, Stone, Panarin, Landeskog, Kaprizov, Connor, Pastrnak, Lindholm, Ehlers, M. Tkachuk, B. Tkachuk, Ovechkin, Forsberg, Garland, Nylander, and Svechnikov. That's 20 just off the top of my head. Hockey isn't all about goals and points. There are so many other factors and DeBrincat is mainly an all out offensive guy making him not as valuable.
        16 jun à 19 h 22
        #24
        Rejoint: oct 2019
        Messages: 1,712
        Mentions "j'aime": 553
        Debrincat might not be a big fancy name elsewhere but he's proven he is one of the best goal scorers in the league. He also has superior defence and its improved each season. He not has a place on the PK though without goals, you can't win anything. Marner is definitely more of a playmaker so they can't be compared on that aspect. They will both be among the top wingers of the game for the best part of the next decade.

        As a Chicago fan myself, would I do a 1 - 1 trade of Cat for Marner. Absolutely not. IMO goals are a higher commodity though I'm not discounting Marner, I just feel Cat holds more value for us then Marner does for TOR or CHI.

        Based on the value of Marner in this ACGM and commentary surrounding the trade, its best served finding another trade partner in any Marner negotiations.
        16 jun à 19 h 42
        #25
        Rejoint: mai 2017
        Messages: 4,966
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        Quoting: TrueCanuck
        1 - my bad, it was supposed to be Kaprizov. Must have autocorrected somehow

        2 - you negotiate with DeBrincat saying he got 56 points this season because that's what he got. When you go into an arbitration hearing, the arbitrator looks at what you've done, not what you could have done. "On pace means nothing" and if you can't use it for other sample sizes, you can't use it for your argument point just to try to be right when you're not. Point paces are not brought up in contract talks. Production is.


        DeBrincat is not a top 10 winger and points or goals over a certain amount of time don't determine that. By that logic, I guess Auston Matthews is the best player in the league, because since 2016 he has the highest goals per game. Do that make him the best player?

        In no order, here are wingers that are undoubtedly better than DeBrincat:
        Marner, Marchand, P. Kane, Rantanen, Huberdeau, Stone, Panarin, Landeskog, Kaprizov, Connor, Pastrnak, Lindholm, Ehlers, M. Tkachuk, B. Tkachuk, Ovechkin, Forsberg, Garland, Nylander, and Svechnikov. That's 20 just off the top of my head. Hockey isn't all about goals and points. There are so many other factors and DeBrincat is mainly an all out offensive guy making him not as valuable.


        You don't watch the hawks and it shows. Debrincat plays on our pentalty kill. Not just an all offensive guy. He's better than Conner, Ehlers, Lindholm, both Tkachuks, Forsberg, Garland, nylander, and svechnikov.
         
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