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Avalanche du Colorado
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Forum: Armchair-GM18 juill. 2022 à 15 h 49
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dannibalcorpse</b></div><div>But my issue remains this: if you get the player he was up through 2020-21, you're paying 6x$8M for a Josh Bailey who can take faceoffs.

And the cap is an issue NOW, not 2027 - the team has just over $11M in cap space as we speak, with Noah Dobson &amp; Alex Romanov not signed yet. Even if you go on the lower-end of what most people in the know are saying, those two are going to take up *at least* half that $11M. So if you're signing Kadri for $8M, you have to find someone to move. The only guy I want to upset the apple cart that much for is a guy with a track record of being an impact player, not just one season of big numbers. But the only guy on the market that fits that bill decided to go to Ohio because he liked having a cannon in the arena.</div></div>

Bailey would be the move. I wish they didn’t have to trade anybody but they must if they plan on getting better
Forum: Armchair-GM18 juill. 2022 à 15 h 36
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dannibalcorpse</b></div><div>If you're reading what I'm saying as "Kadri driving [me] crazy" then go back to English 101, because nothing I've said has been against the player. I think he's a perfectly fine 2C! I just don't want to pay a perfectly fine 2C $8M per year for his age-32 through age-37 seasons! It's almost like you're manufacturing some imaginary "everyone hates Kadri" storyline here when no one has said a word about how he plays the game or how he acts on ice.

You keep pointing to this season's numbers and ignoring the 9 previous seasons, which seems incredibly short-sighted to me. No one is saying that he had a bad year last year, just saying that getting dazzled by big point totals in a player's walk year is a rookie mistake.

And I'm not sure what metrics you're pointing to for teammate metrics, but I'm going to question any model that says a guy who spent the majority of his ES time with Andre Burakovsky &amp; Valeri Nichushkin, and the most of his PP time with Rantanen-MacKinnon-Landeskog is playing with "equal" linemates to Barzal's most common wingers being Josh Bailey/Anders Lee or Oliver Wahlstrom/Zach Parise at even strength and JGP-Nelson-Lee on the power play.</div></div>

Judging by your first 2 sentences it seems we can agree, there is no world where Kadri doesn’t make the Islanders a better team. Whether that be significantly better (80 points) or just better (57 points) remains to be seen. Worry about the 2027 cap hit in 2027. It’s time to maximize the few years this window has left.
Forum: Armchair-GM18 juill. 2022 à 14 h 58
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dannibalcorpse</b></div><div>One season at age 31 of 87 points with a third of them coming on the power play, where he played on a line with three superstars.

9 seasons of averaging 52 pts / 82 GP before that

What makes you think that the first thing is more likely to be the outcome than the second? Literally, anything besides saying "he's a good hockey player" because at this point you're showing the hockey knowledge a guy calling into the FAN to scream to Evan Roberts about how "that Sorokin kid can't be all that good if he didn't get them into the playoffs this year."

I'll hang up and listen.</div></div>

When he’s at the height of his powers he genuinely pisses people off. No extracurriculars, no nonsense in the media, just him being good at hockey drives people crazy. Use the St Louis series as evidence, use your own tears as evidence, whatever, he’s a needle mover.

Also, once again: he played against competition almost double the quality of Barzal’s while playing with teammates that scored in nearly the exact same percentile. With double the competition and equal linemates, Nazem Kadri scored 30 more points than the guy who is gonna cry so much about being forced to play wing. Bummer
Forum: Armchair-GM18 juill. 2022 à 14 h 30
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>Might as well trade for Andrew Ladd , sure he isn’t worth 5.5 mill but he’s an upgrade over Matt martin and would improve the team!</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dannibalcorpse</b></div><div>the only way this statement is true is if you're referring to the lottery picks the team will be accruing because they're stuck paying a 35 year old Nazem Kadri $8M to put up sub-Josh Bailey numbers.

Kadri is a fine player at the right price. Kadri at 6x$8M is a cap dump the second the ink is dry. You're banking against everything we know about aging curves and how players perform in the latter portions of their career because a guy had an 87 point season when he was riding shotgun with Mikko Rantanen &amp; Nathan MacKinnon on the power play for a third of those points.</div></div>

You’re both entitled islander fans.
Forum: Armchair-GM18 juill. 2022 à 12 h 2
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>Again you don’t know anything about the center position , you think winning faceoffs matters. Puck control and playmaking are the most important pre requisites for playing center.

If the isles are dumb enough to try to move Barzal to wing when he has all the leverage , I’m all for what happens after. Barzal getting traded (and thriving somewhere else at his natural position) while the isles are saddled with a 45-50 pt Kadri making 8 mill would fit my narrative. Isles would miss the playoffs by 20 pts , Lou would get fired and the isles would be forced to make extreme changes. The best part is that Kadri who wants to be on a contender would be on a team that wouldn’t even make the playoffs</div></div>

so much entitlement here btw
Forum: Armchair-GM18 juill. 2022 à 12 h 1
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>Again you don’t know anything about the center position , you think winning faceoffs matters. Puck control and playmaking are the most important pre requisites for playing center.

If the isles are dumb enough to try to move Barzal to wing when he has all the leverage , I’m all for what happens after. Barzal getting traded (and thriving somewhere else at his natural position) while the isles are saddled with a 45-50 pt Kadri making 8 mill would fit my narrative. Isles would miss the playoffs by 20 pts , Lou would get fired and the isles would be forced to make extreme changes. The best part is that Kadri who wants to be on a contender would be on a team that wouldn’t even make the playoffs</div></div>

You’re just painting barzal to be a cancer. He isn’t. He’d be fine with it. Chill
Forum: Armchair-GM18 juill. 2022 à 11 h 42
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dannibalcorpse</b></div><div>How is saying "I don't want to sign a player that old to that long and expensive a deal" being an entitled brat?

You keep saying he's a great hockey player but literally have brought nothing to the table to back up this opinion. One season of being a PPG player out of ten full years in the NHL doesn't make you a "great hockey player". It makes you a 2nd line guy who played against poorer competition and played on one of the better power play units the league has seen in some time - literally 1/3 of his points this season (29/87) were scored on the power play. You're an Islanders fan, you've watched this team over the past few years and seen how their power play runs - do you really think Barzal-Nelson-Lee-Kadri is going to produce at the same rate as MacKinnon-Rantanen-Landeskog-Kadri? Do you really think, out of those last 4 names, that <em><strong>Nazem Kadri</strong></em> was the one making it all run? Because if you believe that, buddy, give me a call, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale with your name written all over it.</div></div>

Kadri’s competition was in the 82nd percentile, so not sure where you got “poorer competition” from. For reference sake, Barzal was the 44th percentile.

I get it, Kadri is 31. I get it, Kadri just had his best season. But he’s always trended as a very good offensive player with serious defensive ability. You’re right in saying that the final 2 years of this deal may age poorly, but the Isles aren’t exactly in a great spot for those years anyway. It’s time to go for it, and Kadri is a great player.

Also, the teammates he played with landed in the 71st percentile. Good, but for reference again, Barzal was 67th. Basically equal.
Forum: Armchair-GM18 juill. 2022 à 10 h 50
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dannibalcorpse</b></div><div>Kadri had a career year in his walk year (literally the reddest red flag a UFA can have). He averaged 52 pts/82 GP coming in to this year and expecting anything close to the the 87 points he put up this year would be foolish.

Seriously though: tell me <strong>one </strong>time where a 6 year deal for an over-30 UFA worked out. Or tell me what's so special about Nazem Kadri's game that he will be the outlier that deserves a contract that no sane GM would give out. Saying "Nazem Kadri is a great hockey player" is subjective as hell, just try and bring *anything* to the table to back up your opinion.

Signing Nazem Kadri to this deal literally pushes Mat Barzal out the door and actively makes the Islanders a lottery team. Giving a player whose career scoring numbers to date (even including his career year this year) averages out to " a good Josh Bailey season" a 6 year deal with an $8M cap hit for his age-32 through -37 seasons is probably the most shortsighted move an already old team could make. The contract would be a cap dump from day one.</div></div>

This deal wouldn’t exclude the Islanders from signing Barzal. They’d have plenty of money. All the Barzal stuff people are commenting here is surrounded by the idea of him being an absolute crybaby. If he’s upset that the team signed a great player, then get him out of here. He’s a cancer if that’s the case. I don’t want anyone who puts themselves above the team. He’s a center in name only.

In conclusion, Nazem Kadri is a great hockey player
Forum: Armchair-GM17 juill. 2022 à 22 h 51
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dannibalcorpse</b></div><div>Just for fun, here's every 5+ year deal for a forward that was 32 years or older since 2013:

-Vincent Lecavalier 5x$4.5M by Philly on 7/2/13 - Traded with full retention (along with Luke Schenn) for Jordan Weal &amp; a 3rd halfway through the deal; retired at the end of the 3rd year of the deal. Played 175 total games with 75 points under that deal.

-Marian Gaborik 7x$4.875M by LA on 6/26/14 - Wandered into LTIRetirement after year 4; was traded to Ottawa for 16 games before he retired. Grand total of 225 games and 111 points before riding off into the sunset.

-Mike Cammalleri 5x$5M by NJ on 7/1/14 - Bought out after 3 seasons, played 171 games and put up 51-60-111 in Jersey before being bought out. Split one more season between LA &amp; Edmonton before retiring.

-David Backes 5x$6M by Boston on 7/1/16 - Traded 25% retained with a 1st and a recent 2nd round pick for Ondrej Kase halfway through his 4th season in Boston. 217 GP, put up 39-55-94 in that time. The first turned into Jacob Perrault, for what it's worth.

-Frans Nielsen 6x$5.25M by Detroit on 7/1/16 - bought out after year 5, and I don't think it's crazy to say that the only reason he lasted that long was Detroit didn't need to worry about that cap hit as a rebuilder. 291 GP, 48-76-124 in that time.

5 players in the last 10 offseasons signed 5+ year UFA deals the summer before their age-32 seasons. None of the 5 finished the contract with their original team - two were fully bought out and the other 3 were traded with retention before the end of the deal. Only 3 total 20-goal seasons and 3 seasons of more than 40 points from these 5 players over a combined 28 years and $143.125M worth of contracts.

In the interest of fully doing the research, the only other contracts signed by over-32 players with that kind of term since 2016 have been extensions - Blake Wheeler signed 5x$8.25M in September 2018, and Nicklas Backstrom signed 5x$9.2M in January 2020. Wheeler has actually been the outlier - he's been basically a PPG player since signing, with 262 points in 268 games. Backstrom also hasn't been bad when he's been on the ice since then - 21-63-84 in 102 GP since signing the deal. He missed 35 games this year, though, and is in line to miss a ton more next year. It's going to be hard to find value in that deal going forward.</div></div>

Nazem Kadri is a great hockey player
Forum: Armchair-GM17 juill. 2022 à 21 h 1
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>dannibalcorpse</b></div><div>with this deal you've:

-given a player who will be 32 on opening night a deal that carries through his age-37 season
-paid big on a player coming off a career year in the last year of his contract
-are bringing in a player who forces your nominal 1C off his position in the same season you're going to be negotiating an extension with him
-paid $8M for a player coming off an 87 point season that was more than a 40% jump in production from his previous career high
-again because it's probably still the worst part of this: given a 6 year deal to a soon-to-be 32 year old coming off the best year of his career at 31 in a walk year (how many more red flags do you need?)</div></div>

Too many tears for a Sunday. You should’ve just said he’s a great player
Forum: Armchair-GM17 juill. 2022 à 20 h 36
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>Going to the net is not a requirement to he a center, please post those entry stats because every credible site has Barzal as a top 3 transition player in the league.

Faceoffs are like 10th on the list of importance when deciding if someone should player center. There are many 1Cs that suck at faceoffs and it doesn’t matter. they have been proven to not matter at all during 5v5 play

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Few players love (or excel at) carrying the puck as much as Barzal does. I do wonder whether the efficiency of some of those plays might leave a bit to be desired in terms of goal and scoring chance generating, but they're a joy to watch. <a href="https://t.co/c04LyaUalV" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">pic.twitter.com/c04LyaUalV</a></p>— JFresh (@JFreshHockey) <a href="https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1347941088259158018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">January 9, 2021</a></blockquote>

</div></div>

now do 2021-22. I used j fresh only not from 2 years ago…
Forum: Armchair-GM17 juill. 2022 à 19 h 54
Sujet: Nazem
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>You clearly don’t know what a top 6 centers role is lol. Carrying the puck with possession to exit and enter the zone and playmaking are the two top preeequisites. Very few players do it better than Barzal.

You must think Nathan Mackinnon shoud switch to wing because he sucks at faceoffs</div></div>

Barzal doesn’t go to the net, he doesn’t play a lick of defense, and while he does carry it in the stats will show you he doesn’t do it successfully very often (12th percentile for entry success). Naturally you may say that the more carries the less success. True, but still miles below some of his other elite skating counterparts like Mackinnon and McDavid.

But if you wanna talk about faceoffs (the only unique thing a CENTER does compared to a WINGER), Barzal took less face offs than Patrice Bergeron won. Barzal took less face offs than Bergeron lost. Barzal took 300 less faceoffs than Mackinnon. Barzal is already a winger.