9 janv. 2019
Deuxième équipe favorite
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Claesson4Norris</b></div><div>My big concern about waiting to trade Tierney until the TDL is that he will almost certainly see a dip in production playing on the 4th line, and that could hurt his trade value.
Pageau I would consider keeping if he was willing to take like 1.5mil to be a 4th line vet, but if he wants more than 2mil, I can't see it making sense with all the centres coming through in the next couple years.</div></div>
Completely agree. If they play Tierney as 4C, his value WILL go down. The season is long though, he may grow on the coach and move up the lineup. But from what I've seen from DJ, he's most likely to favour Pageau.
Speaking of Pageau, I'm torn on this one. I don't see any rational hockey player taking a huge pay cut "for the team". Pageau is UFA at the end of this season, and I don't think there is a chance that he'd leave money on the table for a rebuilding franchise that is going to offer him 3C or 4C role and respective $. He is 26 and will want to test free agency waters. No sane professional athlete would forgo a raise for a demotion and pay cut.
That is why I think the Sens should keep Tierney (as he is an RFA) and trade Pageau.
If there are ANY injuries to the C role this year, or even next year, you'll be happy to have Tierney kicking around. Gives you time to round out L Brown's game. Anisimov is slightly more effective at the wing versus C anyway just because of how the game is developing (speed+skill), and since he is getting older and slower... I see him being switched to the wing in the near future.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CD282</b></div><div>You just proved my point.
If you followed the Sens closely you'd know that Batherson hasn't played center in either Belleville or Ottawa, and the fact that you cited sources that also don't know this proves you need better sources.
Batherson isn't a center. Plenty of guys play center in junior but have to shift to winger in order to make it in pro hockey. And to counter your point about having a rookie center his own line in pro hockey, you obviously didn't know that Batherson's center in Belleville was rookie Logan Brown.</div></div>
LOL. You're knit picking. So I miss wrote when I said "Batherson played both position his whole life", i meant before he turned pro. LOL.
Yes, I know he hasn't played Centre at the ahl or nhl, that is why I said my comment about starting a skinny lanky kid as a centre. (which Brown is not by the way, 6.6, 220 pnds)
You using Brown as point of contradicting my statement is also wrong. You can't compare the two.
1) Pick pedigree:
<strong>Brown</strong> was a first round pick, esteemed to be a top (A grade prospect), so much so that the Sens traded up for him and gave up a 3rd round JUST to move up ONE spot. LOL.
If YOU had followed Brown's development throughout the last years, you'd realize its been extremely rocky. Sent back to the minors two years in the row after being drafted. Was deemed a HUGE disapointment and the top brass was ready to give up on him and not resign him after his ELC if he didnt show any progress this year. Only in his third year (post draft) has he made sufficient development where the organization finally tasked him with the role that they hoped he'd fill when they drafted him.
<strong>Batherson</strong> was a 4th round, overager that was considered a project.
2) Size: Batherson had the height but was skinny/lanky and was clearly drafted knowing he had some filling out to do before he could even be considered to play in the ahl.
Brown was a monster from the get go, at 6.6 since draft day and over 200 pounds (he is now 220-230). This drastically affects the way you (the coach and mgmt) feel comfortable playing him Centre as you know he isn't going to get manhandled and injured.
3) Stages of development. Brown has one year of development over Batherson. They may have the same age, but were drafted a year apart, and Brown has been to 3 training camps which provided him with much more access to additional coaching, resources and feedback for his development.
But to be honest, I don't even know why I'm allowing myself to be baited here. This is pointless. Brown is not even a comparable player to Batherson. Apples to orange.
On a different note: I'm a big fan of Troy Mann and how he's coached and helped develop the kids in Bellevile.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CD282</b></div><div> Two things: (1) you clearly don't follow the Sens as closely as you claim to</div></div>
Not that I care if you believe me or not as you're entitled to your opinion and seem to have taken offense to what I felt was a civil and simple hockey debate and make it personal.
But care to explain why you think I don't watch or "follow closely" the Sens.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CD282</b></div><div> (2) you need more reliable sources. Drake Batherson is a winger.</div></div>
First, I don't have any sources. Have never claimed to have sources. I LOVE watching Junior hockey (WHL, OHL, the Q, U18's, etc) and really enjoy following prospects. I base my opinions on my own observations that I've observed through me own eyes.
I never claimed to know or have any access to any special information from the inside.
I really don't care why you label him as solely a winger.
But fine... I'll bite: Drake Batherson has played both centre and RW his whole life, and can play both Centre and RW seamlessly.
His Elite Propsect page confirms this: <a href="https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/195192/drake-batherson" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/195192/drake-batherson</a>
So does his Dobber Page: <a href="https://dobberprospects.com/player/drake-batherson/" rel="nofollow noreferrer noopener" target="_blank">https://dobberprospects.com/player/drake-batherson/</a>
So does his capfriendly page: <a href="https://www.capfriendly.com/players/drake-batherson">https://www.capfriendly.com/players/drake-batherson</a>
Furthermore, its not rocket science that you don't put a rookie prospect centering his own line when bringing them into pro level (nhl or ahl). You first break them in by allowing them to get used to the speed and strength of players at the pro level by giving them top 6 minutes (when they are A level prospects) on the wings. Then, when they've acclimatized to the league and developed and grew into their lanky frames, you reassess them and see if they can take on the very important role/responsibility (especially in todays nhl) to Centre his own line.
As of right now, and this is MY OWN ASSESSMENT, I see him as having top six Centre ceiling, with a floor of middle to top six winger. That is my own opinion I've based on watching him closely throughout the years. If you disagree with this, that is fine.
Furthermore, the Sens have used the SAME development approach on Colin White, primarily given RW minutes as he's progressed in his development, and late this year was given his own line and may be given his own line in top six right from the start of next season (2019-20).
WPG TRADE: Although I really like the idea of Perreault coming to the Sens (as he is a poor man's Mark Stone), I don't see this trade happening for mltiple reasons.
I don't think WPG will be interested in Anderson (unless its at the trade deadline and they had injuries and need a backup where the other team is retaining 50% salary).
With Trouba gone, there is less cap pressure, and as much as Ehlers had a very disappointing season last year, he IS still young, time to rebound, AND on a team friendly contract. It would be unwise to offload him for the package they are receiving here as they could ship him elsewhere for a greater return (see Oilers).
That being said, with Trouba gone, they could be in the market for a 2nd pairing RD. Which may open the door for them being interested in Ceci. But his QO is going to be around 4.3 mil and likely still too much for the Jets (considering they still have to sign their RFA's).
TOR TRADE: Don't think Toronto will move Horton as his contract is insured and on LTIR (doesn't affect the cap). Marleau on the other hand, would be a prime candidate to move. But he would have to agree to it which won't happen unless its to go back to California.
EDM TRADE: The current value of Puljujarvi is not that high. The value EDM is receiving here is too great. It may be the Oilers asking price... but they are trading in a position of weakness (JP allegedly wanting out of EDM) therefor will not get this much. Perhaps a more plausible trade would be adding Manning (win win, oilers offload 2 mil in cap space, Sens get 2 mil closer to cap floor), and then replace the 2nd with a 4th or 5th and it may be more reasonable.
VEGAS TRADE: As per the Toronto explanation, Vegas has no incentive to get rid of Clarkson. His contract is also insured and on LTIR, therefore doesn't count against the cap. That being said, Vegas IS shopping Colin Miller, Reaves and Eakins to free up capspace. I'd look at those three as candidates to ship to the Sens.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CD282</b></div><div>
In your opinion, would Ottawa trade 19 + 32 + Batherson for 8? Should Edmonton accept such an offer?</div></div>
No. Batherson is on their untoucheable list. Watch him play. He wasn't drafted very high, nor did he have big numbers in the Q. But he is a great prospect. His play translates very well to the pro level. He dominated the AHL (62 points in 59 games), then played 20 games in the NHL on a TERRIBLE team and had a PPG stat of close to .50. Which is 3rd line production as a first year pro.
He is a very good prospect and OTT will NOT be looking to get rid of him.
To be honest, and I don't want this to happen, but replace Batherson with Formenton and I think that is a much more realistic trade. Formenton has wheels. Insane wheels. Its his greatest attribute. Very skilled as well but just needs his hands to follow his feet (meaning producing at high speed). He needs another year in the AHL to maybe translate his game to the pro level/speed.
Watching the Oilers and Sens ALOT, I keep thinking, MAN, if Formenton was on McD's wing. WOWZERSS!!
Also, if the Sens are trading up, it won't be their 32nd pick.
Itll be their 19th overall + Florida 2nd (44th overall) + prospect
Sekera might be a good trade target for the Sens as they could use a mentor for their young kids, and desperately need some high caphit contracts to hit the floor this year.
But the Sens also have WAY too many goalies in the pipeline and in their system which means they will NOT be adding any more goalies.
Oilers could really use a good 3C. Sens have a plethora of them.
Tierney and Pageau (one of them) will be available as Sens have too many players (Batherson, Brown, Chlapik, Norris, Tierney, Pageau, Smith) vying for 2C-3C position.
Tierney is more offensively minded/younger/on a good contract. But Pageau is a faceoff king, is very effective on special teams, and can fully fulfill every portion of the 3C role. (faceoff starts in defensive zone, really responsible and smart in his zone, etc etc).
I would propose you package Sekera, Manning and Puljijarvi (from EDM)
From Sens: Pageau, Harpur, Boedker (@50% retained)
Or probably an easier trade would just be Sekera and a 3rd rounder for Pageau and Harpur