29 juill. 2021
Messages dans les forums
Messages par jour
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Butlrr</b></div><div>Good to know he’s untouchable - I can avoid posting my “Rossi for four Vancouver firsts” and “Rossi for Hughes Horvat and Hoglander” proposals.
Honestly, the main reason I posted this is because I’m not yet convinced Guerin knows what he wants to do with his roster. Looking at key guys like Spurgeon I wonder how much he’s looking to build around mid-twenties to early thirties players.
Do the Minny fans here feel confident Bill’s got this?</div></div>
Billy has a plan. Buying out Suter and Parise was a big move with even bigger cap implications. There had to have been a fairly clear plan in place. One would assume that he had to 'sell' that plan to ownership. I don't speak for Craig Leipold but... it would take one hell of a 'plan' to convince me that paying a couple guys millions of dollars 'to stop playing for me' was a good idea.
And I wouldn't call Rossi "untouchable". The Edmonton Oilers set the precedent that absolutely nobody is "untouchable" on August 9th, 1988.
It is just that the asking price for Rossi would be really high, and rightfully so.
In general, this forum tends to overvalue guys like Pettersson and undervalue guys like Rossi. That has nothing to do with talent. I just think the 'business end' of the NHL is overlooked. To be clear - I still think Pettersson nets a greater return than Rossi in a trade (obviously). I just think the return for Elias would be lower than people expect while the return for Marco would be higher than people expect.
Pettersson is an elite C for sure. But he also carries the "elite" $7.3M price tag for the next few years. Trade value decreases as AAV increases regardless of talent. If VAN wants future assets for him, they would need to find a trade partner that has BOTH cap space now AND plenty of future assets (aka "rebuilding" teams). That's a pretty limited market. Limited market = less value. That's just the reality of it.
On the other hand - Rossi is showing every indication that he could be an elite C in the NHL in the near future. He might be in the AHL but make no mistake, this kid is NHL ready. His ELC is also slide-eligible. So a team could potentially have a young, elite C at 894k for three full seasons starting next year. That's huge in a league where GMs are looking at "production per cap dollar". Sure, there's a chance he doesn't work out but, at 894k, its not like his contract would be leaving a 'hole' in the salary cap. The team could just move on. The potential reward far outweighs any risk.
There is not a team in the league that wouldn't be interested in Rossi (or a player like him). If GMBG were to put out the word that 'Rossi is on the trade block', he would get 31 phone calls from other GMs asking about the price before the end of the day. I'm not sure the same could be said for Pettersson ONLY due to the 7.3M cap hit over the next few years.
That said, a contract like Rossi's is ESPECIALLY valuable to the Wild given their cap situation. I think this would push the asking price from "high" to "unreasonable". For that reason, I don't think he moves.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Jorenmakingmecrazy</b></div><div>I agree it is an overpay and as a Wild fan I would bawk at it. But I feel this is closer to what it would take to add a JT MIller or Hertl
Yeah I see your point, but I figure we are probably doing a baby rebuild after this season anyways, and JT Miller and Fiala and Dumba and Greenway could all be on the trade block and bring back some serious draft capital and prospects. I just don't see how the Wild can keep a traditional vet heavy team and stay under the cap. I won't complain if Billy G goes for a cup. This is the closest the Wild have ever looked like a contender, and with the dead-cap it could be a couple more seasons until we get another swing. So I am for a slight overpay to try and bring home a Stanley Cup!</div></div>
Miller should cost more than Hertl. Miller has been putting up a point-per-game for a while now. He has the on and off ice attitude that would fit well with what the Wild are trying to do. Miller is a talented, physical guy who doesn't take very much sh*t from anyone and he wants to F'ING WIN. I really like the idea of having Miller around for Rossi's rookie season next year. Rookies tend to do better when they aren't expected to be "that guy" on opening night.
However, it really comes down to cap. If long term cap was not in the Wild management's thinking, then Rossi and Boldy would both be with the big club. They are putting up over a point per game in the AHL. The only reason to keep them in the minors is to slide their contracts a year. If the Wild are willing to move Dumba in the off-season, then it could work. Or (as you stated) if they trade Miller in the off-season, it could work. So, yeah, I'd be on board. But not for that asking price. Change the first to a second and I'd be all-in.
All of that said, if the Wild are serious about a cup, then they need to improve their goaltending and they need their defense to suppress shots. Talbot is solid. But he is not going to bring you a cup. Not on his own at least. Make a move for Fluery. Run him in a tandem with Talbot for the rest of the year. Highest Sv% gets game 1 of the playoffs....
Then the Wild will have my attention as a serious cup contender.
In other words, I don't think the team with the most 5v5 goals in the Western Conference should be looking to add offense in order to win a cup. Especially when it is widely accepted that guys like Fiala and Greenway are underperforming. Get those two on track and you're looking at a juggernaut. But, scoring 6 goals per game doesn't matter if you're giving up 30+ shots to bad teams on a regular basis. In the playoffs, those will be "good" teams. You can't give up 30-35 shots and expect to win (especially without elite goaltending).
Just my $0.02
The concept is interesting... The Wild keep Fiala and Greenway, swap Rask for Miller and 'take a run at it'. I guess it all depends on whether Wild brass feel like they are in a position to make a run this year.
However, a few concerns...
First - it is an overpay. The first needs to be a second OR one of the prospects is removed. Still might be an overpay but it is a touch more realistic.
Second - Long term cap implications for Minny... The trade technically works this year but they'd be hamstrung next year.
As it stands now, they have about 15.5M to fill 10 roster spots (6F, 3D, 1G). That is already going to be tough.
If they trade for Miller, They'd have something like 10.25M to fill 9 roster spots (5F, 3D, 1G). That limits them to league minimum deals and ELCs. It would almost 'force' them to move Dumba for future assets in the off-season. Assuming he's replaced by Addison, that gets them to (roughly) 15.25M for 9 spots. Still a tough spot but at least they have a little more flexibility.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Minny stand pat and go with what they've got. I think they trade the rights of Fiala and Greenway before next year either way. But I'm not sure the Wild are ready to part with Dumba. So, if they do make a move, I think a 'rental' is more likely (i.e.: Hertl).
We'll see I guess...
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CAPDumba</b></div><div>They already have a handshake deal with Alex G. So he's coming back. Do you really believe Minnesota has any chance to beat Tampa much less Florida who was skating circles around Minnesota? Minnesota also has no chance against Vegas, and Colorado when healthy. Jared's spurgeon injury also is taking them out of 1st place in division in a few games. You don't give up a top 15, or 20 pick and a prospect for possibly 2nd place in division</div></div>
The FLA game was rough, I'll give you that. But, they've always played Vegas well. If Eichel comes back at 100%, that could change (I hope that happens... I drafted Eichel in all of my keeper leagues). They've played COL well and I'm not sold on Kuemper. Minny just beat Tampa tonight. Took them to OT a week ago. The head coach who just won the cup two years in a row was "glad" that he was done playing the WIld this year. I realize that most Minny fans are either 100% homer or 100% doubtful. However, the WIld are a solid team this year. They might be a #1 C away from a cup run. BUT....
Hertl is NOT that #1 C. I would not give up any more than Fiala and a pick OR a prospect (and certainly not a first rounder or a blue chip prospect). Look at the numbers. Hertl is not a Matthews, Eichel or McDavid type player. He isn't even a Zibanejad type player. JT Miller is better than Hertl and it sounds like he is available. The Wild would be better off going that route.
Speaking of numbers, look at the per game production from Fiala and Hertl. They score roughly the same number of points per game. Fiala has a better plus-minus. Fiala shoots more. Fiala has more power play points. The truth is that Hertl is not "that much" better than Fiala. Additionally, if the Wild trade for Hertl, they pretty much know they have to let him walk next year. On the flip side, SJS get at least one more Fiala contract negotiation with team control (and believe me, that is DEFINITELY worth something in a flat cap situation).
In short, I think this is an overpay for the WIld. Hertl would be a rental. If there was another year or two on his deal (and if Hertl found the scoresheet more), it might be different. But he doesn't. So it isn't.
I know I shouldn't but I just can't help it....
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>CAPDumba</b></div><div>Greenway is a 3rd liner. Jason Zucker was traded because they don't have room for top 4 winger. Where exactly are boeser abd jt Miller going to play? You should do your research about Wild winger's situation</div></div>
No offense bud.... but... based on pretty much every post of yours I've seen on here, it is you that should focus more on research.
Specifically, you should look at the Wild's cap situation from now to the end of the 24-25 season. Then look at contract status of Rossi, Boldy, Addison, Beckman, etc. Last, do some research on what happens if these guys stay in the minors for an entire year. Spoiler alert: Their entry level contract slides a year.
For example, the Wild currently have Rossi signed for 894k through the end of 23-24. If plays fewer than 10 games in the NHL this season, that slides to 24-25. If he is the superstar Wild fans want him to be, then it will be very difficult to re-sign him at the end of 23-24 with 14.7M of dead cap space hanging over their head. Way easier to pull that off at the end of 24-25 when the Wild will have (basically) full cap to work with.
The same concept applies to the other young guys. Slide them at least a year to try to bridge cap-hell. That appears to be GMBG's plan. Otherwise Beckman would be on the roster for sure given the camp he had. In short - don't hold your breath in terms of seeing these guys in a Wild sweater too much this season.
As far as this trade is concerned and 'where guys slot in'....
That "3rd liner" Greenway currently plays on the second line (again, do your research). He led the team in assists last year. He is also one of the "biggest guys" in the league at 6'-6" - 230 lbs. There's a lot of potential there given his age. Still, I don't think the Wild re-sign him. I don't think they re-sign Boeser either. Just trading up to take a run before the real cap crunch is felt. Same with Miller. Just adding a better option at C and giving Rossi the entire 22-23 season to adjust to NHL speed before being tossed into a first line role.
Lines for the remainder 21-22
Boeser negotiating rights traded after 21-22 season
Pitlick signs bridge deal
Sturm signs reasonable extension
Beckman transitions up as season progresses; Just avoiding multiple rookies on same line to start the year
Miller and Gaudreau hit the UFA market after the season
Duhaime signs bridge deal
Duhaime-Sturm- 12th F
The above reflects players in the system and assumes 'reasonable' bridge deals / extensions. The only 'young guy' they need to re-sign during the cap crunch is Boldy (and probably Addison on D; I don't think they will be able to slide his contract for two years)