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Forum:
NHL
19 févr. 2023 à 15 h 40
Sujet:
2022-23 NHL Season Discussion Thread #10: The Trade Timer Ticks
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>Did you really just use FO % and +/- to make an argument about how good a player is defensively ? Lol. Both have 0
Pettersson is a young superstar, he could get 12 mill x 8 and he’d still be worth it.</div></div>
I don't think they did. The argument they seem to be making isn't that he's not good defensively, just that he's unlikely to win the Selke due to those stats. It wouldn't surprise me if Pettersson finished lower in Selke voting than he should because certain voters value those stats.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
11 févr. 2023 à 15 h 16
Sujet:
What would a EK65 deal look like
MTL declines hard, Harvey-Pinard is playing really well for them right now and Pezzetta is a decent cheap depth option that's an RFA. Ryan has no value to MTL since he's a pending UFA, Hamblin also has no real value to MTL since they have better prospects on the wing, Rodrigue might interest them but goalie prospects aren't highly vlaued outside of the big names, and a 3rd just doesn't make up the difference.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
6 févr. 2023 à 1 h 38
Sujet:
Dubois value increased
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Howie</b></div><div>That doesn't mean that he was confirmed to resign they took a gamble and it paid off just because the price was know doesn't change the fact that he could have said no. Also they're isn't anything said that Dubois can't be moved as a rental and resign literally is up to him. I just think he would be missing out on 2n plus if he limits himself to mtl. 9m in less tax state vs mtl. Tbh if Dubois isn't traded this summer to mtl I'd probably kiss the chances of getting him goodbye as he either gets extended with the team that does trade for him or gets a better contract as a ufa. Literally the whole mtl fan base is basing everything with Dubois on the whim that they can get him for a decent contract at ufa to not give up assets. They probably have to spend 10m plus tbh if he even makes it there. You do realize that a return like that for Dubois just isn't enough for what he brings right there's no value in a mid to late first which realistically becomes maybe a bottom 6 player and a prospect that is in the same boat. Yk rental prices aren't capped right? Dubois could get 4 1sts and still leave a team. The whole point is just because you think it's too much for a rental doesn't change the fact that it can be a rental. Teams can overpay for someone yk. So this whole bs it's too much makes no sense if every team wanted him and there was a bidding war knowing that he may not resign yk he'd Still get a lot just based on desire and scarcity. So all in all it's your opinion that it's too much not that it's a fact that rentals can't have that type of cost. So basically you're wrong here again lol 😁</div></div>
So your argument on why MTL should pay a premium for a year and a half of Dubois, years that they won't be competitive even with him, is that once he is a UFA he may not want to play there? Even if they trade for him he could walk anyway, and he would have done nothing to help the team due to them being in the middle of a rebuild, while the trade would actively hurt them because of the lost assets. Also, none of that 'well they could just flip him next TDL' junk, there's way to much risk he wouldn't recoup the spent assets, he could get injured, his numbers likely drop from being on a rebuilding team, he could regress, etc.. Jets and Habs fans need to accept the fact that a Dubois trade to MTL isn't a good fit unless Dubois agrees to a long term extension.
Sorry for the edit. You brought up the tax difference, which is a factor, but MTL is one of the league's wealthier teams and can front load with bonuses, and more money early would mean more money for him to invest which would help offset the tax difference by a decent amount.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
5 févr. 2023 à 22 h 22
Sujet:
Dubois value increased
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Howie</b></div><div>Just because of the circumstance a team is doesn't change his value lol Habs are rebuilding does that give them a better price on meier because oh were not making the playoffs so he's cheaper no</div></div>
Where did I say MTL would get a better price on Dubois? I stated quite clearly that MTL is a bad partner for a Dubois trade because they're unlikely to be willing to give up the value the Jets would like, because his value to MTL is likely lower than the value the NYI placed on Horvat. As for Meier, yeah I fully expect that if MTL made an offer it would be much lower than what a team expecting to make the playoffs this year and next would offer, and it would likely be lower than the Sharks would accept, meaning MTL is a bad partner for a Meier trade at this point as well.
The simple fact is that MTL's circumstance absolutely changes Dubois trade value in relation to them, and if the Jets don't think it's enough they should keep him or trade him to a team that will place a higher trade value on him.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
5 févr. 2023 à 21 h 2
Sujet:
Dubois value increased
Jets fans might need to lower their expectations on the return a Dubois to MTL trade would bring. While Dubois is a more valuable player than Horvat in a vacuum, the situations of the buying teams are completely different. NYI brought in Horvat for a playoff push, MTL isn't making playoffs this season, and if management is being realistic they aren't making it next year either. Dubois is only under team control for one more season at this point, and that one season of having him doesn't outweigh having Dach for 4 more seasons (3 more on his current deal and 1 RFA), Barron for 5 (1 more ELC year and 4 RFA), plus the 2M in cap space next season and what is likely a top 16 pick.
MTL is incredible unlikely to pay more for Dubois than NYI payed for Horvat unless there is an extension in place. Unless the Jets can get a long term deal done with Dubois their best option is to trade him to a contender next season as a pending UFA, or use him as an own rental and just accept he might walk for nothing. MTL on the other hand is better of not wasting the assets and gambling on getting him as a UFA when bringing him in lines up better with them starting to work towards competing again. MTL is a bad partner for a Dubois trade at this point.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
4 févr. 2023 à 20 h 32
Sujet:
TDL-Sellers
Jets fans might need to lower their expectations on the return a Dubois to MTL trade would bring. While Dubois is a more valuable player than Horvat in a vacuum, the situations of the buying teams are completely different. NYI brought in Horvat for a playoff push, MTL isn't making playoffs this season, and if management is being realistic they aren't making it next year either. Dubois is only under team control for one more season at this point, and that one season of having him doesn't outweigh having Dach for 4 more seasons (3 more on his current deal and 1 RFA), Barron for 5 (1 more ELC year and 4 RFA), plus the 2M in cap space next season.
MTL is incredible unlikely to pay more for Dubois than NYI payed for Horvat unless there is an extension in place. Unless the Jets can get a long term deal done with Dubois their best option is to trade him to a contender next season as a pending UFA, or use him as an own rental and just accept he might walk for nothing. MTL on the other hand is better of not wasting the assets and gambling on getting him as a UFA when bringing him in lines up better with them starting to work towards competing again. MTL is a bad partner for a Dubois trade at this point.
Forum:
NHL
11 déc. 2022 à 17 h 32
Sujet:
2022-23 NHL Season Discussion Thread #6: No More Summer of Dorion
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NHLfan10506</b></div><div>But…. “all Kent’s trades have been wins, therefore…”</div></div>
I'd rather have Dach than Romanov considering MTL has a decent pipeline of LHD, and they likely don't get Dach without the Romanov trade.
Forum:
NHL
26 nov. 2022 à 17 h 37
Sujet:
2022-23 NHL Season Discussion Thread #5: Montreal’s youngster wonders
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>Edmonton's most used D pair (Nurse-Ceci) usually gets a lot more time with Mcdavids line, so im sure Bouchard will thrive in that role. Usually when a players ice time goes up, their quality of teammates increases, so it will actually be an easier role for Bouchard.</div></div>
It should be easy for him, but calling him a #1 dman before it happens and he actually proves it is just inaccurate. He's a good 2nd pairing dman who should be able to play a bigger role, and if he was available alot of teams would certainly take the chance he could, but until he does that's basically all there is to it.
Forum:
NHL
26 nov. 2022 à 16 h 53
Sujet:
2022-23 NHL Season Discussion Thread #5: Montreal’s youngster wonders
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Db1899</b></div><div>Tyler Myers and Ivan Provorov are #1 defenseman because they get a ton of ice time. Got it</div></div>
They are being deployed as #1 dmen and preforming poorly at it, Bouchard is being deployed as a 2nd pairing dman and is excelling. It's a good indicator that Bouchard might be ready for more responsibility, but I wouldn't call him a #1 dman until he shows he can actually sustain his play with the extra TOI. He should be able too since it's not a huge jump, but young dmen sometimes struggle with more ice time, more time spent matched against top lines, less generous deployment, pressure from higher expectations, etc. I certainly wouldn't call him a #4 dman, but he certainly hasn't proven himself to be a #1 dman.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
30 sept. 2022 à 23 h 48
Sujet:
Another Fantasy Flames Team To Critique
Kylington is both a LD (a position MTL doesn't really need unless it's a legit top pairing guy, which he isn't) and a UFA after 2 seasons, so that hampers his value in a trade to MTL, who won't be competitive in that time frame, his value is basically what MTL think they can flip him for next deadline. Ruzicka is yet another bottom 6 forward, and MTL has too many forwards as is. Pospisil is a dime a dozen prospect, no real value other than his nationality. In a vacuum it's an alright trade for MTL, but they would be better off keeping Mysak and getting picks or a higher quality prospect for Dadonov.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
21 août 2022 à 18 h 47
Sujet:
A big trade
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Gofnut999</b></div><div>A bjg no from Boston.</div></div>
Big no from MTL also. Pasta doesn't make MTL a contender, they have holes to fill up and down the lineup, which they'll do by drafting and developing if their smart or going big on a young guy with term.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
19 août 2022 à 18 h 14
Sujet:
The d i want
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>DirtyDangle</b></div><div>as is the habs d sucks, worst in the league, and they need to prioritize a puck mover so their forwards actually get to touch the puck. they are trading a player who will likely be their 4c for a player who would likely run their power player and be on their top pair</div></div>
Evans likely has more value to MTL than Barrie does. 2.8M in cap space (the difference in cap hit this year) likely has more value to EDM this year than Barrie if we're being honest, plus Evans would likely have positive value for EDM. Barrie for Evans could be the base for a trade, but EDM would need to add. Barrie's main value to MTL would be what they could flip him for at the TDL, but even that they are taking a risk on him being healthy and performing well. Matheson and Wideman are okay puck movers, Harris has the tools to be a good puck mover, and that's good enough for a rebuilding team.
It's a rebuilding team, they will want ice time for their younger players, Barrie would block that unless MTL moves out another experienced Dman (either Edmunson, Matheson, Savard or Wideman), and it's unlikely any of them have the value to make it worthwhile at this point.
Edit: never mind, I've seen some more of your posts and it's obvious you're trolling. Congrats, you got some engagement on your post. If you ever want a serious discussion about player values I'm game but until then happy trolling.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
19 août 2022 à 17 h 53
Sujet:
The d i want
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>DirtyDangle</b></div><div>makes sense for both teams. dont think montreal can afford it tho.</div></div>
Edited for slight math error.
It makes no sense for MTL, in a year when they are highly unlikely to be in the playoff race, to trade a useful bottom 6 forward signed to a decent deal for multiple years for a rental on a less reasonable deal. If EDM were to add a prospect at a position of need or a high pick then that would change things.
MTL could likely afford the swap, since with Price as the only one on LTIR, Byron or Armia on the roster instead of Slafkovsky, and 3 spares you can easily make a MTL roster with 6M in space to sign Dach and Primeau. They should only cost about 3.5M combined at most, leaving 2.5M, and if Evans is dealt that's 4.2M in cap space, send one of Primeau or Montembeault to the AHL and that's another 1M, so 5.2M for Barrie.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
19 août 2022 à 14 h 15
Sujet:
Competing in the Pacific
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>saadkhan09</b></div><div>Both are on expiring deals and Allen's health is hwta lets his value down for Vegas</div></div>
Doesn't explain how this deal makes sense for MTL. They gain almost no cap space, and with Price going on LTIR they don't really need any so the difference in cap has almost no value. They downgrade in net which is a position they are already weak at, and even in a rebuild having alright goaltending to keep blowouts to a minimum is valuable. MTL has so many prospects right now that they will need to let a large number walk, so another 3rd round pick doesn't have the value it would have to a team with a thin prospect pool.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
19 août 2022 à 13 h 47
Sujet:
Competing in the Pacific
Not much point in the trade for MTL. They get a worse goalie, at a time when the have next to no stability in net, and the save less than a league minimum contract in cap space while only getting a 3rd rounder.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
19 août 2022 à 13 h 33
Sujet:
Have to trade sandin now
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>OldNYIfan</b></div><div>If Kyle Dubas could wait until Thanksgiving for Willie Nylander, he can wait until Christmas for Rasmus Sandin. Or maybe New Year's.</div></div>
You think Sandin will sign if Dubas makes him miss a season? Or have the rule around RFA signing in season changed, because I'm 99% sure that Nylander's deal was signed on the last day possible for him to be eligible to play that season. If you just meant Dubas is willing to wait, then yeah Nylander proved that.
Edit: found a 2020 article stating "In normal years, RFA’s that do not sign by December 1 are no longer eligible to play in that season."
Forum:
NHL
13 août 2022 à 19 h 2
Sujet:
2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #11 - Will Lamoriello ever announce Kadri's signing?
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>justaBoss</b></div><div>You can ask Montreal fans.
They went from cup finals to first overall in a matter of year.</div></div>
Injuries, injuries and more injuries, with major injuries being almost the entire leadership group. Mediocre, middle of the pack, not good enough for a wild card spot but not bad enough for good lottery odds was the alternative, so I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Forum:
NHL
27 juill. 2022 à 0 h 47
Sujet:
2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #9 - The Demise (Revival?) of Calgary
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Devil</b></div><div>He is considered not guilty
I don't think this is an appropriate discussion for the NHL offseason thread. Let's stop it here</div></div>
And considering not guilty means that the presumption of innocence he is afforded has not been stripped from him, he should be viewed as innocent. Considering it directly impacts how a player on the open market should be viewed by teams I don't see why it wouldn't be appropriate, but since it basically boils down to semantics, sure let's stop.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188</b></div><div>You're missing our point. We agree with you that he should be CONSIDERED innocent. Our point is that he was not PROVEN innocent.</div></div>
We agree then, since I never said he was proven innocent, I said he doesn't have to prove he is innocent, because that's his, and every other persons, natural state unless proven guilty.
Forum:
NHL
27 juill. 2022 à 0 h 40
Sujet:
2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #9 - The Demise (Revival?) of Calgary
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Devil</b></div><div>"As a verdict, not guilty means the fact finder finds that the prosecution did not meet its burden of proof. A not guilty verdict does not mean that the defendant truly is innocent but rather that for legal purposes they will be found not guilty because the prosecution did not meet the burden."</div></div>
If a person is innocent until proven guilty, and guilt can't be proven, then the person would be considered what?
Forum:
NHL
27 juill. 2022 à 0 h 35
Sujet:
2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #9 - The Demise (Revival?) of Calgary
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188</b></div><div>The first half of that statement is correct, the second half is bizzare. Of course guilt must be proven, that's why we have the legal system. But my point is that just because someone is found not guilty doesn't mean he is actually innocent. Maybe Virtanen is, maybe he isn't-and I agree that since the court found him not guilty, that's a major point in his favor. But it doesn't mean that we know with 100% certainty that he didn't commit the crime (by your logic, O.J. Simpson was proven innocent since he was found not guilty).
But I agree that Virtanen shouldn't continue to be blacklisted if a court of law found him not guilty.</div></div>
If innocence is presumed, then what is a person who has not been found guilty of a crime? Presumption of innocence doesn't disappear when a not guilty verdict is delivered. We almost never know with 100% certainty, but in a civilized society a person doesn't need to prove their innocence the accusers must prove guilt. You might not think he is innocent, but in the eyes of the law he is.
Forum:
NHL
27 juill. 2022 à 0 h 15
Sujet:
2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #9 - The Demise (Revival?) of Calgary
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188</b></div><div>Well, he wasn't proven innocent, just found not guilty. Not quite the same thing.
Still, I think a team will take a chance eventually.</div></div>
Innocence is presumed and guilt must be proved. He was not found guilty therefore he is innocent.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
3 juill. 2022 à 16 h 59
Sujet:
Anderson Takes Wilsons Place
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>OldNYIfan</b></div><div>I have a different view of what Anderson's value is as perceived by actual NHL GMs. I could be wrong. I'm actually hoping that he DOES get traded this week, so it will put to rest this speculation about whether he's worth the second overall pick (which I saw as lately as yesterday) or the 20th.</div></div>
I doubt he gets traded before the Kane situation resolves, as several teams looking for a power forward would likely prefer Kane (at least on the ice), and Anderson is the most likely fall back if they miss out. Just like how I'm doubtful Petry gets dealt prior to free agency, teams will look at Letang and Klingberg first and circle around to Petry once those two sign.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
3 juill. 2022 à 16 h 45
Sujet:
Anderson Takes Wilsons Place
You've got a bit of a thing for MTL overpaying to move from 26 up to 20 don't you? First you try Dvorak now you're trying Anderson, so I'll just use the same logic as that deal, which was an easy no from MTL. Just last draft we saw pick 20 traded for 22 and 90, the extra 4 spots don't equal moving from pick 90 to around pick 30-40's value, which Anderson would have based on the reported interest. We also saw that moving up 7 spots to 15 cost 23 plus 48 and 138, which is slightly less than what we can assume Anderson's value at, and it moved them more spots and to a more valuable pick. Maybe Anderson and MTL 2nd (33) for WSH 1st (20) WSH 3rd (85), I don't know though, MTL would need to be pretty high on someone at 20 and be positive they wouldn't slip to 26. The deal is inadequate from the MTL side of things, considering a mid to late 2nd would be more than enough to make a 6 spot jump late in the first round, and considering Hughes lack of desire to move Anderson and the reported interest in him, he will likely fetch more than that if he's traded at all.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
2 juill. 2022 à 22 h 43
Sujet:
Lets get better for once
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>MajesticWalrus</b></div><div>Miller is worth a top five pick give one good reason why he isnt</div></div>
Miller is a rental, MTL isn't a contender and Miller doesn't make them one.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
1 juill. 2022 à 20 h 28
Sujet:
possible MTL moves
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>poeticentropy</b></div><div>If it wasn't 11OA and instead a late 1st I'd agree. Seems like terrible asset management otherwise by making a bad situation worse. Like, OK you reduced the cap hit down the line but you may have just missed out on a top 6 O or top 4 D that will provide more benefit over more years than the buyout. E.g. Meier was 9OA, so was Couture, Hertl was 17OA. SJ has been pretty good picking at this range.
And to be fair to you there are SJ fans ACGMs sending pickles away with the 1st... but it gives me serious heartburn</div></div>
I agree, it's probably not the best move from a hockey stand point, but on the business side it's been reported that SJ's ownership wants the team to be competitive, not to rebuild. Most likely you're looking at 2-4 seasons before whoever they take at 11OA is making an impact in the NHL. So depending on how bullish ownership is about making playoffs shipping out Vlasic and getting an appropriately priced replacement for a few seasons might be high on the next GM's priority list.
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