6 jun 2019
Blackhawks de Chicago
12 jui 1990
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<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>exo2769</b></div><div><a href="/users/ChiHawk" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@ChiHawk</a> <a href="/users/Wadejos123" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Wadejos123</a> <a href="/users/NickC1988" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@NickC1988</a> <a href="/users/HatterTParty" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@HatterTParty</a> thoughts?</div></div>
So, I’m gonna try this from two sides of the same coin.
On one side, making this move would suggest an investment in the future instead of what’s effective now. Wahlstrom and Wilde would definitely provide size we could use and great potential. At the same time, everyone remembers how reading leddy to the islanders worked out for us right? None of the pieces we got back worked out, period. Value wise, I’d say it’s there. Kubalik, as many said about panarin, was a cheap piece brought in for a late pick. This trade would be a hell of a good return.
Now here’s the other side. As was the case with panarin, I really do feel if kubalik backs up his rookie year with a strong 2nd year, he may not actually be here long term. Suffice to say, this is just what I expect from stan. Do I think kuba is part of the hawks future? He certainly could be, but then again, so should panarin.
Overall, I definitely wouldn’t do this trade. There’s just plenty better you could get for kuba if the time ever came to trade him. Otherwise, I’d like for us to actually establish a new core.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Will be interesting if the Hawks also trade back or up with the 2nd rounder to grab a favorite I've heard in Sam Colangelo.</div></div>
From the smaller amount I’ve seen out of Sam, a few things stand out. On the positive side, he really can skate well for a heavy body. His shot is a rocket and if nothing else is actually the kind of player who just loves to score. But then there’s the down side. Ironically, his passing isn’t that spectacular, mainly due to his desire to shoot, so obviously it is a teachable talent for him. But his biggest knock by far is his work rate. When he doesn’t have the puck, he shows little desire to win it back. More broadly, he doesn’t bring his 100% every single shift. As it stands, he may get the vast majority of shift starts in the offensive zone.
If he can clean up his work rate, he’s gonna be a great late 1st round get or early 2nd pick. Otherwise, kid is gonna be a stud on the rush with that north south speed and wicked shot. I watched him play a lot with Lawrence, but I’ll grant you, only limited amounts with the steel.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>So you guys watching Holloway closely? Askarov is obvious but he'll be gone more then likely. Holloway, Mercer, Amirov or Lapierre would be my order.</div></div>
Can’t really reveal too much in depth information my friend. I know you get that. Lots of scenarios have been pushed. I can give you some thoughts on what I’ve personally analyzed though.
Personally, Holloway concerns me only because of his flaws in our zone. He is a very strong kid who fights for every inch, but his skating isn’t nearly as strong as the others. He does project as a power forward, but I’d love to see him add another 10 pounds or so by the time he’s in the league. He’s not a bad option, but I’ll get to who I have analyzed and liked. Also, lapierre’s biggest downside is obviously his concussion history, but honestly, if that’s behind him, Jesus he could be a huge steal. Pre concussion history, he was a bubble top 10 player.
Of the names you mentioned, I can tell you the ones I’m following closely and analyzing are amirov and Mercer. Amirov is by far one the hardest workers in the draft. Great acceleration but really only above average speed, but maturing may help that along. His two way is actually very impressive for a winger and his stick handling is what you’d expect from a Russian. He is gonna be a Project though. 1 year may not be enough to fully develop him for the NHL. But hey, two more years in Russia is absolutely fine by me. With Mercer, he’s just incredibly smart. He always seems to know where to be and when to be there. This is prevalent in all three zones for him. He isn’t afraid of physical play either. Fantastic shot and while not an explosive skater, again, he compensates with a cerebral mentality. Essentially, he really strives to always make the “right” decision. Great to see. Much like amirov, works hard to chase puck controllers. I’d love to get either one. I originally was big on Seth Jarvis, but I’ll admit I wouldn't mind a winger who’s at 6’0’’ like the aforementioned two. But I’ll be honest, kid can skate like the wind.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Makes sense everything you said but still strome is worth more then Kap. Kap skates like lightning and does pretty good on the PK but the kid overskates the puck and doesn't have a shot and his IQ is so so. Strome is one of the more intelligent players on the ice which is why his positioning is good and makes up for slower skating. His hands are also really good as well as his passing. Dach is better then Getzlaf, just saying Getlaz can put some heat on a shot (whether his accuracy is there is a different story but he has a wicked fast shot). His IQ is bad, he hits a lot but takes some stupid penalties. Dach is a much smarter player IMO, has great hands, his speed was the most inaccurate thing I saw scouts say about him as Dach definitely has above average speed and good top end speed. Dach needs to learn to play the dot and needs to work on his shot, but other then that, this kid is doing the right things. The other thing that impresses me is how hard he worked during the break which shows his desire to play the game at a high level; desire is incredibly underrated.
So tell me, what the hell were the Hawks thinking with Nylander and the fact this kid gets a free pass and barely spends any time in the pressbox? Personally, I think putting him in the pressbox every 4 or 5 games would actually help him. I just get the impression, with all his raw talent, Nylander is just not all that bright. I disagree with people saying he lacks effort...maybe but moreso he just doesn't seem bright. I've spend time watching him and watching recordings of the game, pausing, rewinding, etc and he often seems like he needs to take a second to think about what to do, does it, and then often too late. Maybe it's classic case of overthinking and not letting the game come to him...idk?</div></div>
One hundred percent agree on Kap. I wanted him simply as a solid third liner, but that cap hit is a no no. Another big knock on Kap that I personally had is his possession ability. As you said, not a great stick handling to go with the he skating. Strome being a center helps his value, but his greatest knock is one dimensionality.
I honestly think getzlaf is smart but he just combines it with being a dick. Sure he gets power on the shot, but it’s accuracy leaves something to be desired. His hands were much better years ago but still above average, but not by much. Internally, Dach was determined to clearly have the higher floor. His two way game, hands, and passing were universally agreed on as well. As for his skating, that did take many by surprise. Now again, as I was the 10th man in the decision, it my duty to drill home the negatives. It was as follows: His first step wasn’t very strong. To this day, it’s coming along and is nearly there. His straight away speed wasn’t game breaking, but then again wasn’t slow by any metric. I was firm on his shot and not liking it. Also, while he’s smart, he also doesn’t make the easiest choice in the offensive zone. I didn’t like how much he depended on his hands either. Essentially, he left a lot of opportunities on the table, which is tough on a defensively weak team that needs goals. I know that’s all kind of knit picking, but again, it was my job to do it. I finished by saying I really don’t believe, and honestly still don’t, believe he has a higher ceiling than others. Stan and mark were, admittedly, very influenced by the blues win.
Let me preface nylander by saying this was not a popular choice internally. Our Finnish scout was ****ing furious. As many have said stated, joker went back to finland. But a lot of us didn’t look down on that like, say, Stan did. However, our wing depth played a factor in his decision, along with Mitchell. Also, considering Stan’s confidence from the strome trade, he had a lot of ammo. But needless to say, we definitely weren’t on the choice. As for analysis, he has all the talent in the world. Decent shot, shifty skating, and good playmaking potential. Ironically, one thing I personally wasn’t big on was his stick handling. But I’ll be honest, nylander never seemed to have his head present in the moment (both from our buffalo analysis and our yearly evaluations). IQ, yea, a little, but it’s more his quickness of thinking in general. It’s like how you described Kapanen. Always faster on his skates then with his stick handling. Nylander is smart, but never makes the right move quick enough. There were flashes of it this year, not nearly consistent enough. Admittedly though, work rate was an issue of ours. Specifically, against the heavier hitting teams, he would shy away too often. Overall, he’s very frustrating, almost like a kid who doesn’t know how good he has it. I will say that stan, all too often, stays firmly behind those he brings in. That’s why this season you didn’t see him sit often.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>You did just see what Kappanen got no? Strome is more valuable then Kap hands down and if you're going to argue that, I won't even listen.
LMAO your analogies and overblowing what I or anyone else is saying about Dach is hysterical!!!!
Dach is always going to be a getzlaf; no he's not. In fact, after watching his game this year, I don't see Getzlaf as much as some people are and hardly would I saw he's a carbon copy. He's as much Toews as he is Getzlaf and since he's playing with Captain Serious, watch how his game forms. Very noticeable difference between the juniors, his first 20 games and his last 20 games. I see the Getzlaf in him in the juniors and in his first 20 games, I didn't see as much of it recently. Getzlaf as an example, takes a lot of penalties and bad ones, he's not the smartest player and has a wicked shot...very opposite of Dach.
So you're a scout for the blackhawks or analyst that reviews prospects and gives his input that is pissed Bowman didn't listen to your or people on your team and drafted Dach; as so it's personal for you...that makes sense!</div></div>
Okay, let’s tone it down, we’re adults here.
You gotta remember what kapanan does. Kapanen skates like lightning and can kill penalties. Also, given JR’s comments, he’s top six lock. Between you and me, I think we can call that wishful thinking, but if anyone can get him going it’s crosby. I’m not saying strome wouldn’t be worth the same by any means, but I am questioning the valuation based on everything he can’t do. Again, my job to analyze everything. Have you ever heard of 10th man theory? That’s more or less what I operate under. If 9 agree, I need to be the 10th that goes the opposite way.
I think we can agree that analogies and overblowing statements is the hallmark of our debates. Like i said, I’m gonna tone that down, we are adults.
The only reason people don’t tend to see getzlaf anymore is because he doesn’t hit like getzlaf and really can’t. Unless 5’9’’ Ennis is the standard. Don’t forget either, that getzlaf has only hit 30 goals once. 20 goals another 4 times in his long career. Those are decent numbers, but definitely not indicative of a wicked shot. Toews actually has a far superior shot to getzlaf. No question. Now, I don’t wanna make faceoffs a big deal, but that is another difference. Toews shoots, passes, grinds, wins Faceoffs, is direct when at all possible, and is extremely cerebral. With dach, he can’t shoot, his passing is his best weapon next to his hands, he can’t win faceoffs yet, he isn’t direct enough, and he’s learning a cerebral style. I get you don’t like how I look at Dach, but everyone sees different things in the kid. It’s not my job to dissect what was working in juniors. It’s my job to get him doing the things that are needed for him to be an all around player. That means be critical as possible about him.
So no, I’m not bitter about us taking him. I thought it was the wrong decision, but Kelley’s decision is usually final. In all reality, it was the closest choice we’ve had to make in three years. Over half the staff didn’t want him. But we live on. However, that doesn’t mean my job ends with picking him. I still have to keep eyes on all those that came before or after and project their end product.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>LMAO this is a crazy ass response. I bring up whether you ever played competitive hockey at a high level because you question someone's strength because he got concussed taking a dirty blind hit; that's absolutely an insane viewpoint if you ever played competitive hockey. Do you want me to name all the players in the juniors or NCAA that took a dirty hit and got concussed and went on to be a tough NHL player? Have you ever woke up on the ice and not remembering what happened when you played? That's how bad your viewpoint is about Dach that you bring something up like that to question his toughness it's pure ignorance which is why I asked if you ever played competitive hockey.
Yes, Strome is worth a top 20 pick all day long. A former #3OA, just coming off of two seasons of over 50 points at age 21 and age 22 and he's an RFA. Yes, he's worth that. Sorry but if you haven't noticed, there's a shortage of top 6 centers in the league that will remain until last year's draft class and this coming year mature into NHL players; shocker that we have one of them in Dach eh?
I never argued Cerelli is better then Strome, the debate is centered around the fact you are proposing trading Strome and a 1st for Spencer Knight and yet spending another 1st and 3rd to bring in Cerelli who costs almost double Strome...this is terrible cap management as Cerelli is not DOUBLE the player Strome is. What is so difficult to understand about that?
Happy to talk about Debrincat, the runt who teams figured out how to double up on him and take away space...boy really couldn't see that coming after putting up 40 goals the season prior! Nobody said Mitchell is better then Boqvist, what everyone IS saying is that mitchell's game will translate better then Boqvist's game did. This is about how 2 defensive players play the game. Nobody is saying one is better then the other.
You are literally claiming all these other guys (Turcotte, Cozens, Zegras) are better then Dach because they had decent seasons in the juniors and college....makes ZERO sense. I'm willing to bet you never watched these guys play and only saw some highlight tapes. Have you watched mitchell play? When you are scouting young players, it's not how many points they put up against lesser competition as much as it is the fundamentals they show; a big mistake people on here make looking at points as the driving force of scouting young players...stupid. If it was all points in the juniors, why wasn't Hagel drafted higher and after his draft year the kid puts up 102 points; why isn't he lighting up the NHL? I suggest you watch some a tape of a University of Wisconsin game last year and take a good look at Turcotte as a good example and you'll understand why this kid is going to struggle transitioning to the NHL. The only other center in that draft that would have made sense is Cozens as of now and Cozens will be a middle 6 center, I don't see 1C in his game as of now. Dach has 1C written all over him. All the fundamentals are there minus a good shot, but park him in front of the net and he's shown he's willing to do that, and use his hands which he has great hands.
I'm not even going to debate with you about Toews back in the day being in all star or not; pretty sure you'll find the answer in expert opinions about how good Toews was 10 years ago. Which also tells me something, Dach has a game similar to Toews and you don't think that highly of Toews apparently so guess you don't like centers who play that style; why? who knows</div></div>
Around we go.
Yes, I have woken up on the ice. Yes, I actually went blind for 15 seconds after a head shot. I’ve had it all, it sucks! What I question, and I had to watch the video to make I wasn’t crazy, is Dach on the hit. Criticize his strength? Ehhh, I mean, again watching the video my only criticism was my one criticism when it happened. Dach flies in on the wing, pilon trails him to the the corner. Dach throws a pass, and immediately as he turns into his pass pilon plants him into the boards. Boarding? Yea, at least 9 out of 10 times. Did he get him from behind? Nope. Was it dirty? I mean, haven’t we seen hits like those all the time? I can’t tell you how many times I was hit after a pass when I turn into the path of someone. They didn’t get called for it like pilon, but hey, I learned to be aware of where the defender was over my shoulder. Oh, and balance. Needless to say, I am surprised he got lit up on the hit, but I’m knocking him for suffering a concussion, that’s pretty asinine.
Strome for top 20 will never make sense to me considering all the things he can’t do. Not to mention any team that puts him around bad players will never get the best out of him. So, you see, it’s more like he’s a top 20 pick with us, but he certainly wouldn’t be many other places. Are teams really willing to take that risk considering the few other skills he actually possesses?
As strome vs cirelli, again, not doing it anymore, we’re just way too separated on that subject.
ChiHawk, you’re more than welcome to continue praising Dach to the holy heavens above all you want. It’s fine, but that doesn’t mean I can’t praise the rest of the draft class and expect great thing a from them. I watched them all plenty of times. After all, it is part of my job. You love Dach’s here and now, and that’s worth praising. I focus more on the draft class five years, that’s what my job is, long term outlook. Dach’ll be good as I’ve said for years to come I’m sure. He has traits to shed, but he’ll learn, the easy way or the hard way. But that still doesn’t mean I ignore the rest of em. Yes, I do praise them for the way they are developing. Yes, I praise their major junior and college years. There’s no crime in that. At present, Dach is NHLer. Congratulations.
At no point talking about toews did I ever say all star. I clearly all NHL, meaning top two in the position. Toews made the all NHL team zero times. ZERO. Does that mean he was bad? NOOOOO! Turn off the blinders dude. Toews was a franchise, marquee player. But he wasn’t all NHL like Kane and Keith. Dach is always gonna be a getzlaf, not a toews. He’ll never be anything like toews and I see it everyday. He is a carbon copy, a freakin carbon copy of Getzlaf. No questions asked. And no, I don’t like getzlaf style players. Toews I do.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>A) Cerelli costs twice as much as Strome and you've given up a 1st and 3rd round pick to pay for a player that isn't nearly twice as good; marginally better.
B) Cerelli .33ppg in the playoffs, Dach .66ppg in the playoffs. Who plays on a better team? You know defense also matters when any forward puts up points as does offensive zone possession and guess who has a lot more of that? My point is, you stroke Cerelli's carrot but crap on Dach which makes me question your ability to recognize talent. Cerelli is a fast, scrappy player...he doesn't have the offensive raw talent of Dach. I really hope you see that.
C) Glass above Dach in the lineup shows how much disdain you have for Dach that you think Glass is just that much better. Why would you even think about bringing in Glass when you have Dach? Don't answer that
My opinion has nothing to do with me being a fan. I'm especially critical of Bowman and critical of plenty of players on the Hawks where it's due. If you paid attention, I was the one that hasn't cared for Debrincat since day 1 and said Bowman is an idiot for gambling with that extension literally the day they announced it. I also don't love Strome but moving him should be for defense or a top 20 pick and something; no reason to undersell him just like I wouldn't undersell Debrincat.
You are a half empty glass type of fan that hates Dach, we all get it. Every die hard NHL fan wants Dach on their team and hold him to the highest regard when talking about the next wave of future NHL all star guys; he's in those discussions. You are literally the only person on here I've heard say Dach isn't a future star and deny what the rest of us saw how the way this kid progressed this year, not in the juniors or college, but by the hardest trial by fire you can throw a teenage kid into; the NHL. We watched his contemporaries picked before him not do as well, but that's not good enough so you bring up college kids and juniors players as examples of what they've done in way lesser leagues. You love bringing up a blind dirty hit in the prospect tournament that gave him a concussion. For you to joke about that like he's not tough, I question, have you ever put on the skates before and played competitively? Have you ever taken a blind dirty hit in a scrimmage let alone a real game? The way you think he's not tough because of that hit tells me you haven't before. The fact you don't see just how good Dach is and will become and mention Turcotte and Zegras in college or Cozens in the juniors as doing really well (you did this during the season) tells me you haven't watched the other guys closely, and/or don't understand the huge difference between playing in the NHL versus juniors or NCAA, and/or simply don't do well judging young talent. Watch how the other 3 struggle next season and Dach picks up where he left off. Dach has a year jump on them because he's hands down more ready because he's better. Maybe in another 4+ years things will change and maybe not but Dach was the right pick because he had the clearest path a good scout can see to be successful in the NHL and that hasn't changed a year later.</div></div>
Literally after all that it’s the still thing. It’s just more of your opposite side of the argument vs. my opposite side of the argument. I’ve never said anything about Dach not being a star. Do I think others will be better? Of course I do! I’m not gonna hang my hat on his one year. He’ll be a good player, I’m not questioning that. What I question is his ability to lead this team in the future cuz I’ve seen his archetype fail plenty of times in the past. I’m fine with anyone else wanting him.
You call me glass half empty like that actually means something dude. Questioning if I’ve played after bringing a hit in prospect tournament? No your not, your just throwing the mud and seeing what sticks, and I don’t blame you. You and I hate each other’s view on this stuff. You see Dach as a great player and I just question how his greatness helps the hawks hopefully win a cup in ten years. Why? Because ten years ago, this was a great TEAM. Not a great group of individuals. Kane and Keith were probably the only players on the team that would make a an all NHL team. Even toews wouldn’t make it for all his greatness considering the players who were far superior to him. But alas, this is all for not. Dach is in the crucible of the NHL, and as such it kills any conversation with my fellow hawks fans. Forget the rest of the class when Dach is the prince of Chicago. Cool, just do me a favor and shoving him down my throat. As I’ve said a thousand times, I can love the hawks and not him. We better get an excellent host of centers to flank him though, cuz he ain’t enough as 1C.
We seriously need to stop talking about cirelli, glass, and strome. Strome is worth a top 20 pick? What?!?!?!?! Cirelli is better than strome? What?!!?!?!?It’s literally just the same stupid comments from both of us. Yes, stupid. From both of us. Literally listing the ways one better than the other or not better and it furthers nothing in the debate. So please, for both our sakes, let’s just cease that, we both just look like morons.
God this Dach talk is just brutal. How bout whether or not cat can recover from his worst season yet? Or if strome can do anything on the ice that’s best for the team? How bout boqvist? What happens if he never reaches his potential because he can’t play in a Colliton system? How bout Mitchell? He hasn’t played an NHL game and we’re already making him sound better than boqvist. Kinda sounds like comparing college players to Dach right?
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>LMAO so you are instead going to worship Cody Glass who's 2 years older and Cerelli who's 4 years older...that makes sense! Here you are saying that others in Dach's draft class will pass him by if you give them time, but yet you refuse to give Dach the same amount of time and write him off for Glass or Cerelli by bringing those two in; c'mon talk about talking out of two sides of your mouth!
If you honestly think Cerelli, who has a whooping 6 points in 20 games in the playoffs (.33ppg) on a loaded team and who is 4 years older then Dach (.66ppg in the playoffs), is hands down going to be better then Dach, then your judge of NHL talent is at best questionable at best Hatter.
I can get trading Strome but Cerelli is not a huge upgrade by any means and you'll spend double the cap space and a 1st and 3rd to acquire a player marginally better, certainly not double the player. I can get trading Strome for defensive help and bringing in Glass as a future 1 and 2 with Dach.</div></div>
Okay, you gotta turn down the hawks fandom for just a second. I’m not in any way worshiping glass and cirelli. I am pointing out the promise each one shows. In cirelli’s case, I was just pointing out a player worth having over strome; who is also young, and plays two way hockey, and is fast, and will actually hit. Strome can score, with good players on his wings, and...........well that’s it. That’s not worship, that’s just pointing a better player. As for time, actually I’m just pointing out how you get off on the present while I’m usually waiting on the future. As I said at the draft last year, draft for the future, not the ****ing now. As for writing him to glass and cirelli, when the hell did that happen? Me putting him on the third line says that?! Or me just liking glass and cirelli? I’m asking with the front of my mouth on that one.
Who are we gonna get for the left side that we could afford? Stan was never gonna do a brodin move. Maybe he’s embracing the logjam. But why the hell would I want strome in this team? What does he bring other than offense? Even that’s not guaranteed unless he is with all stars. I’ll gladly take another great two way center with drive and no fear.
Okay, seriously, is this all because I put cirelli over Dach in the lineup? You brought up ppg averages for that? You think I’m clearly defining he’s gonna be better than dach? Seriously, we’re ****ing insane to be having this debate. Jesus, I’m saying time’ll show other great, maybe even better players from the draft. You respond by saying I’m not giving Dach that time. You say Dach will infinitely better than these guys based on “good” (by no means great) rookie year. Not statistically, but he could hang. I respond by saying your jumping the gun on a solitary year. .66 ppg with guys like Kane, cat, Saad, kuba, and toews, shiny!!!!!!! Cirelli only .33 ppg with killorn, Johnson, or palat. He sucks eh? Wait, stacked team right? Who’d you take as wingers: cat, Kane, Saad, kuba or killorn, palat, Johnson? You can take your time. Seriously ChiHawk we’re literally each other’s crazy opposite response. Im agonizingly unbiased to the point of not looking like a hawks fan, and you are the eternal optimist who backs em to the death. I’m not gonna kiss a hawks player’s ass for being a hawk, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna hate em either. Some I may, but I still love the team.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>Cerelli isn't that big of an upgrade to Strome. Cerelli is fiesty and has speed and i know you like that, but he is not that much better then Strome, but you are paying a 1st and a 3rd and about doubling the cap hit to get him...he better be more then twice as good as Strome and he's not...not even close. It would be way wiser to take the 1st and 3rd plus that extra $3M in cap hit and package it up for a LHD prospect or player that can play first line and using Dach who has more upside then Cerelli. This is just a poor way to give up a lot of assets and cap hit to get moderately better version of Strome.
Dach will be better then both of them; watch. He has all the tools that he showed as a teenager in the NHL. Where was Glass and Cerelli at that age? Cody Glass must be a stud because he scored 69 points in 38 games in the WHL last season versus Dach's 73 points in 62 games in the same year; is that your thinking despite Glass being 2 years older? He didn't show, despite being 2 years older, he's better then Dach in the NHL so it's got to be the WHL you're comparing to?
Just because you hate Dach, you make no sense trying to bring in 2 centers that arguably don't have the upside of Dach, so instead of working with the player that was drafted the highest, the only one who played in the NHL as a teenager, let's trade a bunch of assets and use cap to acquire 2 more young centers and put them ahead of Dach; you make no sense.
Kubalik doesn't play a competent 2 way game, he's OKAY but hardly a two way player. Ehlers is a good 2 way player. 3rd line is joke. Roslovic is not very good and Suter is totally unproven.
Bottom line, you trade a bunch of forward studs, and then spend more assets (picks) to acquire 2 centers we don't need and then bury our best prospect on the 3rd line behind them and if that's not enough, you do nothing on defense, our biggest weakness, but hope Beaudin is a 2nd liner and Keith remains our first liner when most know he was done as a first liner this time last year :shakehead This is not good cap management bud.</div></div>
Well, honestly, between strome and cirelli, we definitely won’t see eye to eye on those two. To me, there’s absolutely no contest between those two. Cirelli just does far more to make himself valuable and the lightning, as mentioned before has made the lightning not even miss stamkos. Strome is a one trick who needs the players around him to be relevant.
As for the two way play of those players mentioned on the wings, fair enough. I really don’t know why people are so high on roslovic as is.
As for cap management and defense, hey, I’d love to see us suck next year and get Owen power then. Next victor hedman right there playing for the steel. As for the rest of the prospects who knows; like we said last week, bowman may trade a bunch of them just to watch the United Center burn down and sabotage their development. As is, I could care less what we do with the left side because we aren’t, and shouldn’t be, a contender or even competitive. Although, in all this talk we haven’t even brought up goaltending. Being around crow this week has been awkward.
Now for Dach. Cirelli, at the same age was a memorial cup champion. Even scored the winning goal. He won an OHL championship the next year, again scoring the winning goal. So, as little as I know you of this, He actually won titles in juniors. Think about that: Dach claims his style of play is winning but conveniently hasn’t anything. Cirelli just goes out and wins, period. As for glass, at Dach’s age, he 94 points in 69 games. Pretty decent no? But hey, I just realized it’s probably a pointless exercise to state all this. Why? Cuz Dach was Better than Hughes and kakko! Dach was useful in the playoffs! Dach was in the NHL at 18!!!! Sky is the limit! It’s something we hawks fans can take pride in through all this mediocrity!
I may dislike Dach, but Jesus tap dancing Christ I’m sick of the line being moved. He was better than Hughes and kakko! Ehhh, sorry but that doesn’t mean much since they each sucked statistically. He did amazing In juniors and was an offensive force! He also went 15 games In a row in JUNIORS without a point. He’s better than all these young guys since he’s actually in the NHL at 18-19 years of age! Cool, so now you have something to brag about till the others outshine him. The line is constantly moved time and time again. I do it, you do it. There’s just no point to debating Dach.......
You and hawks nation can worship him as the best of the draft class and I’ll just wait till the rest of the class proves that wrong.
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>ChiHawk</b></div><div>What's the point of trading Strome to end up with Cirelli at more money? Do you really think Cirelli is that much better then Strome? And you really think Cerelli and Glass are a better then Dach, because acquiring those two young guys really suggests you do so the plan is just to keep Dach on the 3rd line? Whether you like it or not, Dach is a lock for the top 6 of the Blackhawks for years to come which is why acquiring 2 other young centers makes no sense. Bird in hand; Dach is going to be better then both Cerelli and Glass making no sense to acquire both or to trade Toews and Strome only to get 2 other centers and yet zero defense players, especially a future first line left hander.
Also, you talk about modernizing the team but then talk about putting the best defensive C on the 3rd line; trying to roll a defensive 3rd line? That's yesterday's pro hockey. Today, the best teams roll 3 or 4 scoring lines and put a defensive player or two on each line.</div></div>
Well, to get the easy point out of the way first: cirelli is absolutely better than strome. Considering strome only knows how to play offense, cirelli actually is a very good scorer when you remember how strong his two way play is. He works harder, throws his body around, and is a big reason Tampa hasn’t missed stammer these playoffs. He’s gonna make twice what strome will and deserves to. So, yea, that’s an easy one.
As we always round back to, I know we’re stuck with dach, I’m not blind to it. As for glass and cirelli, let’s put this in present context. We all know hawks fans love Dach because he’s the best player from the draft “NOW.” Not five years from now when everyone else will be in full swing, not ten years when others have separated themselves. NOW. Another thing hawks fans can be cocky about in a three year period of mediocrity. Right NOW, cirelli is by far the more complete of the three, statistically and play wise. Right NOW, Glass has had more years to mature, his offensive is a little more well rounded, and he plays defense. In fact, BOTH Glass and Cirelli are two way centers. It’s almost like I made moves for them both for that exact reason! Sure glass has had some knee injuries, but hey, Dach got concussed by a guy was 5’10’’ and 30 lbs lighter.
Which brings us to modernization. As stated, both guys are two way centers. Glass is playing with kubalik, who plays competent two way hockey no? Cirelli is the main two way player on his line and I forget off the top of my head if ehlers is a good defensive player. Dach has Suter and roslovic, and I believe roslovic is a good two way player. By your logic, seems pretty modern to me.
Almost forgot, I’m this scenario, I’m very much okay with the team not having a good left side on defense. They are going to be bad for a year or two. Hey, if we’re bad enough next year, which wouldn’t be too surprising, we could kick into Owen power. We talk about logjams all the time in this fan base after all.