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AK50

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Forum: NHLHier à 1 h 11
Sujet: Expansion Ideas and Division Reshaping
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>A_Habs_fan</b></div><div>Unfortunately, there's nowhere in Atlantic Canada than can fit an NHL team imo, Halifax is the biggest one but I think they're too small for an NHL team. Maybe AHL would consider Halifax though</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AK50</b></div><div>Fair, but I just feel that the East Coast deserves a hockey team and Halifax has the most people(around 500,000), so it seems like an obvious choice. Quebec City wouldn't be bad, its just that a team in Atlantic Canada really makes the game more accessible.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Rangsey</b></div><div>Halifax ain't it. Not big enough to support a team. Hamilton gotta be on the list tho</div></div>

The new 32-team average NHL city has a US$GDP of over $380 billion and a DMA population of over 4.15 million; average per capita US$GDP of nearly $92,000 per year.

Salt Lake City for reference has GDP of $135 billion, DMA population of 1.25 million and average GDP of $107,644
Phoenix was $362 billion GDP, 4.85 million DMA, and GDP per capita of $74,721.

There are only 3 other non-NHL cities in North America that would raise the average, and in theory create the opportunity to accretively raise league-wide revenues: San Francisco, Houston, and Atlanta. Phoenix is the next closest city to be on par with the league average.

<strong>NHL EXPANSION CITY CANDIDATES
</strong><strong>PACIFIC</strong>
San Francisco, California - huge economy, large and wealthy population (not San Jose, CA); very old/small arena (13,550) would need to be replaced. NFL, MLB, NBA teams.
Portland, Oregon - NHL sized arena ready (18,280); similiar sized market/population as Vancouver and St. Louis. NBA team. Some hockey culture.
San Diego, California - large economy/population (similiar to Minneapolis and Denver); smallish arena (12,920) would need to be replaced. MLB team.
Others to consider but not top options: Sacramento, Oakland (Former NHL team the Golden Seals were in Oakland, not San Francisco which was a big factor in their failure), Boise.

<strong>CENTRAL</strong>
Houston, Texas - huge &amp; wealthy population, large economy/corporate base. Has to be Fertitta until 2033 when arena (17,800) lease is up. NFL, MLB, NBA teams. Former successful WHA team (Aeros) here.
Phoenix, Arizona - huge market/population; arena issues are well documented, 5 year clock is ticking. NFL, MLB, NBA teams. Former NHL team located here (Coyotes)/culture.
Austin, Texas - wealthy citizens and fairly large economy (similiar sized market/population as Vancouver and St. Louis); no large arena. No major sport teams.
Kansas City, Missouri - NHL sized arena is ready (17,544) - economy/population is similiar to Nashville &amp; Pittsburgh. NFL, MLB teams. Short-term NHL team located here (Scouts).
San Antonio, Texas - NHL sized arena (16,151) is ready - average sized economy/population compares to Las Vegas/Pittsburgh. NBA team.
Milwaukee, Wisconsin - NHL sized arena (15,178) - population/economy is similiar to Edmonton, Ottawa, Raleigh, and Salt Lake City. NFL, MLB, NBA teams. Strong hockey culture.
Others to consider but not top options: Oklahoma City, New Orleans, Memphis, Omaha, Tulsa, Albuquerque, Des Moines, and Saskatoon/Regina.

<strong>METRO</strong>
Baltimore, Maryland - large population/economy (similiar to Vancouver/Charlotte), decent sized arena (14,000) but would need to be replaced. NFL, MLB, NBA teams. Some hockey culture.
Charlotte, North Carolina - large population/economy (similiar to Vancouver), decent sized arena (14,100) but would need to be replaced. NFL, NBA teams.
Cincinatti, Ohio - average population/economy (similiar to Nashville/Pittsburgh), decent sized arena (14,453) but would need to be replaced. NFL, MLB teams. Some hockey culture.
Indianapolis, Indiana - average population/economy (similiar to Nashville/Pittsburgh), small arena (11,651)would need to be replaced. NFL, NBA teams.
Cleveland, Ohio - similiar economy/population to Columbus. NHL sized arena is ready (18,926). Former NHL team located here (Barons). NFL, MLB, NBA teams. Some hockey culture.
Others to consider but not top options: Norfolk, Richmond, Louisville, Birmingham.
Re-alignment option could be to put Nashville Predators in Metro if best expansion candidates dictate realignment.

<strong>ATLANTIC</strong>
Atlanta, Georgia - huge population and economy, 2 bidding expansion groups/arena proposals. NFL, MLB, NBA teams. 2x former NHL teams located here (Flames/Thrashers).
Orlanda, Florida - similiar economy/population to St. Louis. NHL sized arena is ready (17,353). NBA team.
Hamilton, Ontario - as a stand-alone city is way too small to be an NHL market based on population/economy (smaller than even Quebec). NHL sized arena (17,383) and extremely strong hockey culture in place. As a "2nd Greater Toronto Area" team however, Hamilton ranks on this list. IMO, if the Buffalo Sabres were ever to relocate they would be allowed to move here; otherwise I think both the Maple Leafs and the Sabres block any additional teams in the southern Golden Horseshoe.
Quebec City, Quebec - much too small of an economy/population for the modern NHL (similiar to Winnipeg, Manitoba). NHL sized-arena is ready (18,259) and former NHL teams (Bulldogs/Nordiques) were located here. Extremely strong hockey culture.
Others to consider but not top options: Jacksonville, Hartford, Providence, Grand Rapids.
Atlanta could be a Metro or Atlantic team to place; depending upon other expansion options to optimize geographical/potential rivalry fit.

The four strongest cities to grow the leagues revenues would be: San Francisco, Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix and it's not particularly close. San Diego and Baltimore come in 5th/6th.

I can see the concern over San Francisco with neighboring San Jose but that is about the same distance as Toronto to Buffalo but in this case it would be like having Toronto and Vancouver an hour apart and everyone in both cities made twice their current income.

Add San Francisco to the Pacific, Arizona/Houston to the Central; move Nashville to the Metro, and add Atlanta to the Atlantic

<strong>PACIFIC</strong>
Edmonton
Calgary
Vancouver
Seattle
San Francisco
San Jose
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Vegas

<strong>CENTRAL</strong>
Winnipeg
Minnesota
Chicago
St. Louis
Colorado
Utah
Dallas
Houston
Arizona

<strong>METRO</strong>
New York R
New York I
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Washington
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Carolina
Nashville

<strong>ATLANTIC</strong>
Montreal
Ottawa
Toronto
Detroit
Buffalo
Boston
Atlanta
Tampa Bay
Florida

Or an alternative Metro/Atlantic alignment could be:
<strong>SOUTHEAST</strong>....................<strong>NORTHEAST</strong>
Philadelphia...................New York R
Washington....................New York I
Pittsburgh.......................New Jersey
Columbus.......................Boston
Carolina..........................Buffalo
Nashville.........................Detroit
Atlanta............................Toronto
Tampa Bay.....................Ottawa
Florida.............................Montreal

This format could have a positive impact on TV ratings/value by having the Northeast teams competing more regularly such as Toronto/Montreal vs the New York area teams, but the alternative is re-creating the not-so-successful "Southleast" division/demographic.
Forum: NHLHier à 1 h 32
Sujet: Expansion Ideas and Division Reshaping
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AK50</b></div><div>Fair, but I just feel that the East Coast deserves a hockey team and Halifax has the most people(around 500,000), so it seems like an obvious choice. Quebec City wouldn't be bad, its just that a team in Atlantic Canada really makes the game more accessible.</div></div>

To put the NHL economics into perspective, Winnipeg fans must pay nearly 6x the amount per person to support the team compared to "average NHL cities" who have a large corporate base for sponsorships and larger populations of fans to purchase tickets. Toronto has such a large economy/population that they are below average in "support ratio" (0.6x), while Montreal is right around average at 1.2x, Vancouver is slightly above average at 1.7x, and then Calgary 2.5x, Edmonton 3.1x, and Ottawa 3.2x. Buffalo is the lowest ranked American city at 4.6x with Salt Lake City coming in next at 2.9x

These statistics are born out by the teams struggles at the gate this year with fans complaining about ticket prices. They have to subsidize the team because otherwise it wouldn't exist; but now they "forgot" that and are feeling the pinch in the pocketbook (understandably so). However, you cannot award a team to a small city and say "but they have a great hockey culture/fandom/etc and will support the team even without corporations" and then turn around and use that as an excuse as to why they are struggling financially.

Quebec City is very similiar in that 6x ratio.

Hallifax would be double that at 11.6x and with a much lower per capita GDP compared to Quebec and even Winnipeg it would only be destined for failure as an NHL market.
Forum: NHLHier à 3 h 6
Sujet: Expansion Ideas and Division Reshaping
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AK50</b></div><div>If the league expanded to 36+ teams, what would the 4 new teams be and how would you reshape the divisions, if at all?

I'd add Phoenix(new ownership), Halifax, Houston and Portland. I'd change the divisions to 6 teams
Pacific: San Jose, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary
South-Central: Anaheim, LA, Phoenix, Utah, Vegas, St. Louis
North-Central: Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago, Detroit, Columbus, Colorado
Southeast: Tampa, Florida, Nashville, Carolina, Dallas, Houston
Metro: Pittsburgh, Washington, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Islanders, Rangers
Atlantic: Boston, Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo</div></div>

With these teams/divisions wouldn’t it make more sense for Colorado to be in the South-Central and St. Louis to be in the North-Central? Colorado is much closer to Utah/Vegas/Phoenix/California and St. Louis is much closer to Chicago/Detroit/Columbus
Forum: NHLdim. à 11 h 2
Sujet: Expansion Ideas and Division Reshaping
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>AK50</b></div><div>If the league expanded to 36+ teams, what would the 4 new teams be and how would you reshape the divisions, if at all?

I'd add Phoenix(new ownership), Halifax, Houston and Portland. I'd change the divisions to 6 teams
Pacific: San Jose, Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary
South-Central: Anaheim, LA, Phoenix, Utah, Vegas, St. Louis
North-Central: Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago, Detroit, Columbus, Colorado
Southeast: Tampa, Florida, Nashville, Carolina, Dallas, Houston
Metro: Pittsburgh, Washington, Philadelphia, New Jersey, Islanders, Rangers
Atlantic: Boston, Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Buffalo</div></div>

Won't be Halifax, If Canada gets another team it's in Toronto/Hamilton (GTA) or Quebec City

If I had to add 4 teams, they would be Phoenix, Houston, Atlanta. Then the 4th could be any of Kansas City, Quebec City, Somewhere in the Greater Toronto Area, etc