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(MTL/WPG) - Monahan for 2024 1st (WPG), 2027 3rd (WPG)

Who won the trade?
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3 févr. à 8 h 21
#126
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Or don't. I only watch cbc/sportsnet and listen to 91.9 FM.


Denis Gauthier on RDS is the only one worth listening to as he actually addressed the hockey related issues on the ice. The rest of them all have agendas.
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3 févr. à 8 h 30
#127
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
I love that trade. LOL !


The narrative here is that Habs fans aren't happy because that 1 Habs fan was seen on twitter wanting all the Jets prospects plus a Jets dog which in turn creates the Habs fans are alway wrong narrative, to continue, uninterrupted, while certain posters can behave in their same warped identity online to a dozen folks that don't even care.
Hell, the narrative is that Petry didnt return a 1st so Habs fans wrong lol despite Mike Matheson being a much better piece than a 1st lmao
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3 févr. à 8 h 33
#128
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Quoting: NARC311
Crazy how much everyone on this site overvalues late 1sts


And, it hasnt changed in years. Goodrow got a 1st for pugnacity and truculence. Paul Gaustad got a 1st for winning faceoffs in a 4th line role, etc, etc.
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3 févr. à 8 h 39
#129
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Quoting: jpsnow13
And Zegras will fetch as much return, when you read some people around here...


The Zegras return will be amazing. And, I mean, amazing as in underwhelming. There's a narrative around the league, as well, forget, this place! He's the type of player that GMs love to undermine and he has a tricky bridge contract that pays him, maybe, more than he's worth atm and takes him closer to free agency. Even Eichel, discounting how much better of a player he is than TV, Jack still had a long term deal which created security for clubs and less risk even with the injury concerns. TV now has a lot of the same risks as Eichel and none of the rewards.
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3 févr. à 8 h 42
#130
Le patriote
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
The narrative here is that Habs fans aren't happy because that 1 Habs fan was seen on twitter wanting all the Jets prospects plus a Jets dog which in turn creates the Habs fans are alway wrong narrative, to continue, uninterrupted, while certain posters can behave in their same warped identity online to a dozen folks that don't even care.
Hell, the narrative is that Petry didnt return a 1st so Habs fans wrong lol despite Mike Matheson being a much better piece than a 1st lmao


Yeah I know I have to explain the trade tree to french on RDS lol ...
3 févr. à 9 h 6
#131
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Quoting: turtlemountain
Now that’s just not true lol


When you say it's not true... You base yourself on what stats?
Both players arrived in the league in 2013 and until 2018 they both played on different teams with Lindholm stats not coming close to Monahan stats
Then in 2018-2019 they were both for the flames and even if it was close, Monahan still had better stats.
Its only in 2019-2020 that Lindholm finally passed Monahan and we know at that point he was starting to be slowed and still managed to do better in the playoffs
Then it was downhill for Monahan which explains how the habs got him for free and a first pick.

Now that he is healthy, even with 2nd and 3rd line duties with no help on the wings he is doing better than Lindholm.

I'm not saying that Monahan will be a superstar but if Lindholm brought a 1st, a 3rd, Kuzmenko and 2 prospect including a top D, The habs should've had slightly more.
I understand it's luck and Monahan could've been injured again and we would've got nothing.
Hopefully he will help the Jets for a good push even if this means a bad pick for the habs
3 févr. à 9 h 7
#132
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
Denis Gauthier on RDS is the only one worth listening to as he actually addressed the hockey related issues on the ice. The rest of them all have agendas.


Joel Bouchard was awesome. Similar to Bieksa in english for explaining play systems.
3 févr. à 9 h 47
#133
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Quoting: Maroons1972
When you say it's not true... You base yourself on what stats?
Both players arrived in the league in 2013 and until 2018 they both played on different teams with Lindholm stats not coming close to Monahan stats
Then in 2018-2019 they were both for the flames and even if it was close, Monahan still had better stats.
Its only in 2019-2020 that Lindholm finally passed Monahan and we know at that point he was starting to be slowed and still managed to do better in the playoffs
Then it was downhill for Monahan which explains how the habs got him for free and a first pick.

Now that he is healthy, even with 2nd and 3rd line duties with no help on the wings he is doing better than Lindholm.

I'm not saying that Monahan will be a superstar but if Lindholm brought a 1st, a 3rd, Kuzmenko and 2 prospect including a top D, The habs should've had slightly more.
I understand it's luck and Monahan could've been injured again and we would've got nothing.
Hopefully he will help the Jets for a good push even if this means a bad pick for the habs


I agree with everything you said but I don't think Kuzmenko was much of an asset. Maybe he will be built back up by the Flames but Calgary did the Canucks a massive favour by freeing 5.5M off their books in 2024-25. The Lindholm return is very close to the Monahan return as neither Canucks prospect that were moved are more than a B prospect, if that.

Monahan has done more with less talent around him, I agree. Not sure if the fit is perfect in Winnipeg by playing him with speedsters but that goes to show you again that the market was white hot for Monahan, fit didn't matter, he was the 2nd best option out there, which was the entire point that was made by most Habs fans here when it comes to scarcity and why this outcome was so obvious despite the negative, toxic posters spewing their BS left, right and centre.
3 févr. à 9 h 49
#134
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Modifié 3 févr. à 10 h 32
Quoting: mokumboi
Wait... Monahan is the 2nd best forward available? That's quite the Olympic stretch.


I meant centre not forward and that seems to be the general consensus. Remember, at the moment, there are only six teams that are selling. Who is currently available who is better?

This came out on the 1st. Monahan is ranked the second biggest trade target.

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-trade-candidates-2023-24/

4th forward here, 2nd for pure centres:

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/trade-watch-list-2024
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3 févr. à 9 h 55
#135
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Quoting: mokumboi
He didn't say rental centers, he said forwards. The highest PPG forward among seemingly available UFAs (if we want to insist only UFAs can be available) is Tarasenko. But points aren't everything anyway.


Tarasenko's cap hit is $5 million.
Monahan's is $2 million.

That matters when it comes to trade value. Cap hit is the reason Calgary gave up a 1st round pick to get rid of him in the first place.
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3 févr. à 10 h 39
#136
Bcarlo25
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
It will be the same after this TDL. Monahan got traded for a 1st...?.. we..uh..thats..cause..Gms are dumb..lol..haha

Right because this isn't supposed to be a simulation taking into account the real life factors in trade which include the market tendencies. I swear some here think they are trading the players in real life and are on their teams payroll. The delusion goes DEEP!




Another trade deadline. Another year where nothing is learned from previous deadlines. The market sets the price.
Rinse, repeat.
95% of the forum gets it wrong and badly. Not just wrong but unironically thinking they know better while being wrong in every way. My favourite part of delusion.


i think when folks saw the lindholm trade, most recognized a first for monahan was very possible.

you went to way too much effort to do this btw. touch grass, or snow, or whatever.
3 févr. à 11 h 0
#137
mokumboi
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Quoting: CSStrowbridge
Tarasenko's cap hit is $5 million.
Monahan's is $2 million.

That matters when it comes to trade value. Cap hit is the reason Calgary gave up a 1st round pick to get rid of him in the first place.


Okay, but that's not what I commented to. I was only responding to the notion that he was the second best forward available. Which he certainly was not.

But again, I'm purely in favor of the Habs putting one over on Winnipeg. Which they did. Seems like teams that have never won a Cup (or in Winnipeg's case, never even made a final) are just a little more desperate than other teams.
3 févr. à 11 h 1
#138
mokumboi
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Quoting: CSStrowbridge
I meant centre not forward and that seems to be the general consensus. Remember, at the moment, there are only six teams that are selling. Who is currently available who is better?

This came out on the 1st. Monahan is ranked the second biggest trade target.

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-trade-candidates-2023-24/

4th forward here, 2nd for pure centres:

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/trade-watch-list-2024


Best trade target and best player aren't the same thing, sir. Have a good one.
3 févr. à 11 h 28
#139
WentWughes
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Quoting: mokumboi
Okay, but that's not what I commented to. I was only responding to the notion that he was the second best forward available. Which he certainly was not.

But again, I'm purely in favor of the Habs putting one over on Winnipeg. Which they did. Seems like teams that have never won a Cup (or in Winnipeg's case, never even made a final) are just a little more desperate than other teams.


Monahan was the 2nd best CENTER available after Lindholm. That's where the demand was.
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3 févr. à 11 h 34
#140
mokumboi
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Monahan was the 2nd best CENTER available after Lindholm. That's where the demand was.


Cool. Again, that was not what I responded to.
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3 févr. à 11 h 48
#141
WentWughes
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Quoting: mokumboi
Cool. Again, that was not what I responded to.


Just curious, but who would the forwards better than him be? Everyone who has more points then him I don't see getting traded.
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3 févr. à 13 h 8
#142
mokumboi
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Just curious, but who would the forwards better than him be? Everyone who has more points then him I don't see getting traded.


As I already said, Tarasenko for sure. And points aren't everything, especially when you can't get many at 5v5. More than half of Monahan's points this season are on the PP. Hayes has more 5v5 points than him. And Monahan probably ain't gonna PP1 anymore in Winnipeg.
3 févr. à 13 h 29
#143
WentWughes
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Quoting: mokumboi
As I already said, Tarasenko for sure. And points aren't everything, especially when you can't get many at 5v5. More than half of Monahan's points this season are on the PP. Hayes has more 5v5 points than him. And Monahan probably ain't gonna PP1 anymore in Winnipeg.


You think Tarasenko at 5M is more desirable than Monahan at 2m? I see Monahan being a PP2 on Winnipeg, he's very good down low and could even find himself on PP1. After all, he has all of those PP points, so he's doing something right on it.
3 févr. à 13 h 50
#144
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I wonder if there has ever been 1 player who's netted 3 first round picks for an organization


Yes and his name is Wayne Gretzky
3 févr. à 13 h 54
#145
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Quoting: LeafsForLife
Yes and his name is Wayne Gretzky


What about in 3 separate transactions
3 févr. à 13 h 59
#146
mokumboi
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Modifié 3 févr. à 14 h 9
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
You think Tarasenko at 5M is more desirable than Monahan at 2m?

I see Monahan being a PP2 on Winnipeg, he's very good down low and could even find himself on PP1. After all, he has all of those PP points, so he's doing something right on it.


1 - My own opinion? Yeah, I'd rather have Tarasenko any day. He's one of the best playoff snipers in the league against top competition. Monahan's a nice enough 3C. You can always toss in a draft pick for retention, and boom, they have near the same cap hit.

2 - Winnipeg has the 6th best PP, Montreal is 25th. He certainly isn't sniffing PP1 upon arrival. And it's not like he has an insane amount of PP points - he just has a low 5v5 total that's easy to top. Currently, 152 players have more PP points than Monahan.

I'm not trying to take away the good player he is, and I'm fully behind Winnipeg giving up a 1st for him. I just don't think it's going to work out how they want it to.
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3 févr. à 22 h 56
#147
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
What about in 3 separate transactions


There have been a number of guys traded for three 1sts and transactions that have returned as many as five 1sts

But three transactions with one team? Best I can come up with: Mikael Renberg for Philadelphia.

Traded by PHI to TBL in 1997
Traded back to PHI from TBL in 1998
Traded by PHI to ARI in 2000

Flyers added FOUR 1st round picks in the three transactions.
4 févr. à 2 h 28
#148
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
You think Tarasenko at 5M is more desirable than Monahan at 2m? I see Monahan being a PP2 on Winnipeg, he's very good down low and could even find himself on PP1. After all, he has all of those PP points, so he's doing something right on it.


you are confusing skill and value.
4 févr. à 9 h 54
#149
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Quoting: mokumboi
Best trade target and best player aren't the same thing, sir. Have a good one.


... We are in a thread about a trade judging the value of that trade. I though the context was clear.
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4 févr. à 10 h 35
#150
mokumboi
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Quoting: CSStrowbridge
... We are in a thread about a trade judging the value of that trade. I though the context was clear.


Yeah, and a relevant auxiliary topic concerning said trade value sprang up, as it only does in pretty much every single trade thread. I'm fully clear on all the contexts.
 
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