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(CGY/VAN) - Lindholm for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st (VAN), 2024 4th (VAN)

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31 janv. à 21 h 55
#76
mokumboi
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Quoting: AusCanuck
How many Canucks games do you watch? I think Van fans were all pulling for Kuzy but it was clearly not the right fit and it was obvious he would need to be moved to free up cap space to upgrade the roster


I watch a decent amount of Canucks hockey. I'm over in the PNW, so it's convenient. And, well, they're fun to watch this season.

But more to your point, dud Kuzy fit well last season? Maybe Tocchet is partially to blame here. Who knows? Either way, he was nowhere near as bad under Tocchet as dude opined (18 goals in 36 games last season) and needing to move to clear space is not the same as a cap dump.
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31 janv. à 21 h 55
#77
GO FLAMES GO
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Quoting: mokumboi
Btw, this also means Vancouver stole Calgary's All-Star. The Flames will be the only team without a rep in the game.


Chicago doesn't
31 janv. à 21 h 55
#78
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Quoting: mokumboi
1 - Five healthy scratches in 48 games is not regular basis. By any stretch of the imagination. That's barely over once a month.


RIMMER: *Constantly* fails the exam? I'd hardly call eleven times "constantly." I mean, if you eat roast beef 11 times in your life, one would hardly say that person constantly eats roast beef.

A player earning $5.5 million should NEVER be a healthy scratch.
31 janv. à 21 h 56
#79
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Quoting: jr400
Didn’t the same thing happen to the Canucks last year when they traded Horvat just before the break? (I can’t remember if they had another player in the all-star game or he was the only one.)


Pettersson was still in the ASG.
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31 janv. à 21 h 58
#80
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Quoting: CSStrowbridge
RIMMER: *Constantly* fails the exam? I'd hardly call eleven times "constantly." I mean, if you eat roast beef 11 times in your life, one would hardly say that person constantly eats roast beef.

A player earning $5.5 million should NEVER be a healthy scratch.


Heh. Setting aside that loads of high earning dudes have sat in the press box to rile their best up. Berube benched Perron more than once. It's only a shame he never did it to Krug. But this is entirely irrelevant to the discussion I was having anyway.
31 janv. à 21 h 59
#81
stop daddy it hurts
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So it has happened…

Aside from Jurmo and the 4th, isn’t this basically the Horvat trade?
Talented two way forward for skilled cap dump, good project prospect, and a first.
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31 janv. à 21 h 59
#82
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Quoting: Farabee
Wild trade


No, Flames and Canucks
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31 janv. à 22 h 1
#83
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Quoting: mokumboi
1 - Five healthy scratches in 48 games is not regular basis. By any stretch of the imagination. That's barely over once a month.

2 - Except you didn't say under Tocchet "this season" in the earlier comment. You said "under Tocchet". Not the same thing, bud.


He has been very bad under Toccet. Saying he was also good under him last season doesn't negate what I said. He has been extremely bad under Tocchet. You're nitpicking when the substance of what I said is true.

In the 11 games since his last scratch, he has 0 goals and 2 assists. He was also the only forward on the Canucks with a minus rating, which is shocking since the Canucks lead the league with a staggering team differential of +59.

Kuzmenko had negative value on the Canucks and getting his contract off the books for next year is a major W for the team. As I said before, you are entitled to believe he could turn things around in Van, but I don't.
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31 janv. à 22 h 6
#84
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Quoting: Neutral_Zone_Highlights
He has been very bad under Toccet. Saying he was also good under him last season doesn't negate what I said. He has been extremely bad under Tocchet. You're nitpicking when the substance of what I said is true.

In the 11 games since his last scratch, he has 0 goals and 2 assists. He was also the only forward on the Canucks with a minus rating, which is shocking since the Canucks lead the league with a staggering team differential of +59.

Kuzmenko had negative value on the Canucks and getting his contract off the books for next year is a major W for the team. As I said before, you are entitled to believe he could turn things around in Van, but I don't.


Bro, I'm not nitpicking in the slightest. I am using the actual definitions of words and terms. Now, you can move those goalposts from Denver to Marrakech, but it ain't gonna change what was said and what I specifically responded to. Everyone can just see it in the thread. If you want to imagine that once a month is "regular basis" and 18 goals in 36 games is "really bad", well gosh, have at it. More power to ya. Just don't expect everyone else to rewrite the dictionary.

Cool? Cool.
31 janv. à 22 h 6
#85
JT Miller for Hart
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Modifié 31 janv. à 22 h 28
I don't like this trade for us. I just feel that Lindholm is overrated(just pretty inconsistent when looking at his career stats) and does NOT warrant this kind of package, especially as he is a pending UFA who is likely demanding 8 mil +. HB is such a great prospect to have(having a MONSTER season in the OHL), Kuzmenko still has some positive value, the 1st is a big loss to our now thinner prospect pool, not to mention these assets are all going to a divisional rival. Think Alvin kinda screwed up on this one. Feels like a big L to me.
I'd take Horvat over Lindholm any day(unless Lindholm lifts the cup with us this year). When you compare the trades, it just keeps looking better for CGY.
Edit: just wanted to add the gif to express my new thoughts on PA.
https://y.yarn.co/1e3eb0a6-5f6d-4dc9-bf9b-5002bd86155b_text.gif
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31 janv. à 22 h 9
#86
45 for Norris.
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Bro what.
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31 janv. à 22 h 9
#87
Canes hockey.
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Well, Alvin with his announcement that he'd been extended, has certainly made a splash of it today. I understand that the Canucks needed a "2C", but damn did Alvin give a lot up to have a center core of Petty and Lindholm. Lindholm is 29, which is fairly young, but man he's been on a decline ever since his 21-22 PPG, with 64 points last season, and a decline in goals this season with only 9g and 23a for 32 points in 49 games. I get that he's a center, and a good one at that with a 55.5% FO, and pretty solid two-way work, but damn that point total decline is worrying with the assets he got in return, while also playing on the 1st line. Vancouver gets their 2C but at what cost.

Arguably the best piece Vancouver got would be Hunter Brzustewicz, which arguably is one of the best Dmen in the entire CHL system. I understand that's he turned 19 in November, but damn you don't see too many 100 point Dmen in the CHL, especially in the OHL. While playing for Kitchenor of the OHL, he has posted 8g 61a 69 points in 47 games (on pace for 11g 87a for 98 points). I get that someone like Zayne Parekh, who is only just turning 18 is on pace for 33g 66a for 99 points, but that doesn't take away how impressive Brzustewicz has been for the Rangers. I mean CHL players can bomb when coming through the system to the NHL, but if he makes it he will absolutely kill it on PP1 for the Flames, being a beast on that blueline.

Moving on to some other pieces for the Flames would be a presumably late 1st for 2024, in which a draft that isn't as stacked as last season, you can absolutely pick up a gem late in the 1st round, and a conditional 4th is a pretty good add for this 2024 draft (pending conditions of course). Another minor piece would be 21 yo D Joni Jurmo, who seems to have struggled (compared to his 15 points last season) in Liiga with only 1g 2a in 34 GP between KooKoo/Ilves. His rights expire Jun 1, 2024, and is likely not to receive an ELC, but if he does get one maybe he adjusts to NA ice well and can progress to the NHL. Odds are against him but you never know.

The last piece being Andrei Kuzmenko, who's had a "down year" but damn if he can return to his rookie season goal totals last year, of getting 39 goals this can end up being a crazy trade for the Flames. Kuzy of course hasn't worked out since getting his extension of 2 years at $5.5 mil, but if he can repeat his 74 point totals he could absolutely earn it and possibly get a haul, or get another extension and stay with the Flames. As a so-called sniper, Kuzy with only 8 goals is a rough look, but with a new system maybe he gets that forward core moving better then Lindholm could've. If Kuzmenko doesn't work out I still think a small return for him would be a good return.

My concluding thoughts would be that this is a pretty big Calgary win, especially if Lindholm ends up being a pure rental. A guy like Lindholm just isn't worth what assets was given up to acquire to him, I mean he's just been declining so much offensively, and I think a lot of people mistaken that because he's a big name. I get Vancouver has better prospects like a Tom Willander and Lekkerimäki incoming but damn Brzustewicz is a tough one to lose. I will admit if Lindholm returns to a 65+ point center with a decent long-term contract it probably won't end up as bad, but we'll just have to see. Gotta think last season isn't a fluke for Kuzmenko, but the future will tell.
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31 janv. à 22 h 15
#88
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Quoting: AK50
I don't like this trade for us. I just feel that Lindholm is overrated(just pretty inconsistent when looking at his career stats) and does NOT warrant this kind of package, especially as he is a pending UFA who is likely demanding 8 mil +. HB is such a great prospect to have(having a MONSTER season in the OHL), Kuzmenko still has some positive value, the 1st is a big loss to our now thinner prospect pool, not to mention these assets are all going to a divisional rival. Think Alvin kinda screwed up on this one. Feels like a big L to me.
I'd take Horvat over Lindholm any day(unless Lindholm lifts the cup with us this year). When you compare the trades, it just keeps looking better for CGY.


I think you’re underselling Lindholm’s surroundings. He has to play against the other teams best every night with no support on his wings. The Canucks will have Lindholm is sweet heart matchups and he will guaranteed have a better second half than he has first half. I think the Flames got a really really good deal but I think the Canucks just significantly improved their line up as well.
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31 janv. à 22 h 18
#89
JT Miller for Hart
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Quoting: WranglerWranglin
I think you’re underselling Lindholm’s surroundings. He has to play against the other teams best every night with no support on his wings. The Canucks will have Lindholm is sweet heart matchups and he will guaranteed have a better second half than he has first half. I think the Flames got a really really good deal but I think the Canucks just significantly improved their line up as well.


Yeah, I'm mostly pissed about losing HB. He's a great prospect to have and was a steal for us in the draft. Just a really tough pill to swallow. Lindholm is OK, but if he can't drive play himself and struggles against the league's best, he does not warrant this return.
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31 janv. à 22 h 24
#90
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Monahan for a 1st baby
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31 janv. à 22 h 28
#91
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Modifié 31 janv. à 22 h 34
Quoting: mokumboi
Bro, I'm not nitpicking in the slightest. I am using the actual definitions of words and terms. Now, you can move those goalposts from Denver to Marrakech, but it ain't gonna change what was said and what I specifically responded to. Everyone can just see it in the thread. If you want to imagine that once a month is "regular basis" and 18 goals in 36 games is "really bad", well gosh, have at it. More power to ya. Just don't expect everyone else to rewrite the dictionary.

Cool? Cool.


Has Kuzmenko played horrendously under Tocchet? Yes, he has both had stretches of horrendously bad play, and taken as a whole played worse under Tocchet than his previous coach. Your post of "achktually, he had a good stretch last season" does not negate the truth of the statement that he has played badly under Tocchet. But by all means, post the dictionary definitions of which words you think I used incorrectly which is totally not nitpicking when the substance of what I said, "He has played badly under Tocchet" is manifestly true.

Also, any impartial person will know that it's nitpicking to claim that being scratched 5 times in 38 games isn't "on a regular basis". He's commanding a large salary and should never be scratched at all, let alone time, after time, after time, after time, after time.
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31 janv. à 22 h 31
#92
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Quoting: AK50
I don't like this trade for us. I just feel that Lindholm is overrated(just pretty inconsistent when looking at his career stats) and does NOT warrant this kind of package, especially as he is a pending UFA who is likely demanding 8 mil +. HB is such a great prospect to have(having a MONSTER season in the OHL), Kuzmenko still has some positive value, the 1st is a big loss to our now thinner prospect pool, not to mention these assets are all going to a divisional rival. Think Alvin kinda screwed up on this one. Feels like a big L to me.
I'd take Horvat over Lindholm any day(unless Lindholm lifts the cup with us this year). When you compare the trades, it just keeps looking better for CGY.


Lindholm definitely is the best player in this trade. If he resigns there and plays well, it's a big time win for the Nucks as well.

He might've had a bit of a drop off stats wise but lets remember he was playing with Tkachuk and Gaudreau, they both leave and get turned into Huberdeau and Kadri... but look, he's also a beast in the dot. Straight up, having a much better season than Horvat (55.5 vs. 50 %)

Look at how good Vancouver's line up is, top to bottom. Having a #2 center who just played 1st line for 3+ seasons with a win now team sounds like a recipe for success, and I think he'll have a big rebound. Either way he's going to be a big piece of this cup run. Winning face-offs in the playoffs is YUGE.

If they end up not winning the Cup this year, and not resigning him, then yes, this will look bad.... But you have to think, if GMJR... sorry GMPA... if you think Allvy isn't gonna make a run at signing him, after giving up that much, you got another thing coming. They have to think they have a shot at getting him to resign there, or they wouldn't have given up that much. That's why its a rival tax... he prolly ain't goin anywhere
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31 janv. à 22 h 40
#93
GM CRIME DAWG
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Monahan for a 1st baby


How does this effect MTL?
LOL

(play on the classic - what does this all have to do w/ Toronto anyway!?!)
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31 janv. à 22 h 44
#94
Nazem Mangiapane
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Quoting: WranglerWranglin
I think you’re underselling Lindholm’s surroundings. He has to play against the other teams best every night with no support on his wings. The Canucks will have Lindholm is sweet heart matchups and he will guaranteed have a better second half than he has first half. I think the Flames got a really really good deal but I think the Canucks just significantly improved their line up as well.


Might want to change your profile pic bro
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31 janv. à 22 h 45
#95
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Quoting: McGruff
How does this effect MTL?
LOL

(play on the classic - what does this all have to do w/ Toronto anyway!?!)


Take the best center out of the market, best center available also currently makes under $2 Million dollars. WENT WUGHES
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31 janv. à 22 h 47
#96
GM CRIME DAWG
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Take the best center out of the market, best center available also currently makes under $2 Million dollars. WENT WUGHES


It's Monny-time & 2013 all over again!
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31 janv. à 22 h 58
#97
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I think I like this trade for both teams. Lindholm’s 42-goal season looks like a one-off, but he still a solid 2-way center who should help Vancouver as they go for it this year. As a Hurricanes fan I’m glad he didn’t go to New York.

Kuzmenko didn’t seem to fit with their plans, so no big loss there. In fact, they probably needed to get rid of his cap hit next season, so getting something for him is a win. Yes, they gave up a late 1st and a prospect, but that’s not an unreasonable price to pay even if Lindholm only turns out to be a rental.

For Calgary, it’s a decent return for a pending UFA. Because they don’t want to go into a rebuild, I think it was important for them to get a useful roster player back as part of the package, like they did in the Toffoli trade. Kuzmenko is older than Sharangovich, but I suspect their scouts identified him as a potential bounce back candidate like Sharangovich was, so even if he had negative value for Vancouver, I think Calgary sees him as having positive value for them. Because he has an extra year left on his contract, they can see what he can do with a change of scenery, and if he does well they can flip him for another pick next year if they don’t extend him.
31 janv. à 23 h 22
#98
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Winner of this trade is....













Kyle Dubas, because....
1 févr. à 0 h 4
#99
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Quoting: HockeyManiac95
NO MORE LINDY TO AVS AGCMS!!!!!!!


you guys just blew your chance at a cup,the avs really needed Lindy. the canucks gave up more for Lindholm than they got for Horvat. I really like Kuzmenko he has elite skill.
1 févr. à 0 h 24
#100
Cowan Season
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Quoting: CSStrowbridge
Andrei Kuzmenko is being overpaid and wasn't fitting in with the team, so that's not a huge loss.
Hunter Brzustewicz is having a monster season in the OHL, so that's a loss.
The 1st will be early 20s at best, which is still something.
Joni Jurmo will very likely never sign an NHL contract. Not sure why they were even included.
4th round pick is usually nothing.

Two real assets for Elias Lindholm and $650,000 less this year and even more savings next year to give to Petey.

Fair trade.


I mean, I guess it's better to get Jurmo rather than not?
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