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2023-2024 NHL Discussion Thread #3: After Further Review...

14 févr. à 21 h 29
#1126
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
If i remember correctly, most CHL players are paid pennies and don’t actually really get help in post-secondary schooling (though this is the wrong way to go about changing that). I also wouldn’t call the CHL a development league, it does have some of those aspects but at the end of the day, that league is there to make the owners money, they don’t necessarily care about developing the kids (though everyone in those leagues are arguably kids). The lawsuit does bring up some valid points, mainly that your rights are owned by the CHL that drafted you for basically your whole period of age eligibility for the CHL so teams can hold your rights hostage if they wanted to


They get paid a small stipend, health coverage and expenses paid at billet home. The leagues to pay for college/university, but only for as many years as you play, can only collect within year of playing, and only they cover an amount matched to the cheapest available option to where you live (sometimes it’s online school). Only about half the player ever get tuition money and about one-quarter of the money promised ever is paid out.

Development is not the primary focus.

But these kids do have other options. They can play junior A or in US if they want to go college route (where scholarships are available).

It’s in many ways an outdated system build for the world that was…and needs to adapt to world that will be.
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14 févr. à 23 h 50
#1127
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Quoting: ricochetii
Basically they want to be paid and be able to choose to play with a team other than the one that drafted them, even if that's another league, and/or be able to negotiate between teams other than the one which drafted them.

These are not professional leagues, they are development leagues. They provide ice time, facilities, training, and development. Participation is voluntary.
In exchange, you have to participate in drafting/trading which is intended to balance and maintain the competitive environment necessary for proper development and evaluation.
Drafting and trading are critical elements of the sport.
If you don't like this particular path to the NHL, there are others. You can go NCAA, amateur leagues in NA, or professional leagues in Europe.
You can even work at Costco and earn a tryout after going undrafted.

The only thing reasonable they might be able to request, is a bump in their allowance.
Maybe they get an additional stipend if they are forced to relocate (trade/drafted out of state/province).


All of these same arguments were used to defend NCAA football in America; and since then every major lawsuit has ripped that open and created a marketplace with athletes having leverage as it relates to "cost of living", N.I.L., and freedom to move between schools without penalty. "Tradition" and "voluntary participation" held no sway in court.

I am not defending one side or the other, just posting the article and providing what I see as relevant background
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14 févr. à 23 h 53
#1128
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
They get paid a small stipend, health coverage and expenses paid at billet home. The leagues to pay for college/university, but only for as many years as you play, can only collect within year of playing, and only they cover an amount matched to the cheapest available option to where you live (sometimes it’s online school). Only about half the player ever get tuition money and about one-quarter of the money promised ever is paid out.

Development is not the primary focus.

But these kids do have other options. They can play junior A or in US if they want to go college route (where scholarships are available).

It’s in many ways an outdated system build for the world that was…and needs to adapt to world that will be.


Not to mention the systemic cover-up of abuse (physical/sexual/mental) and under-age drinking/drug use and this is ripe for a major paradigm shift. It might take a while but it will change
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15 févr. à 0 h 59
#1129
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
All of these same arguments were used to defend NCAA football in America; and since then every major lawsuit has ripped that open and created a marketplace with athletes having leverage as it relates to "cost of living", N.I.L., and freedom to move between schools without penalty. "Tradition" and "voluntary participation" held no sway in court.

I am not defending one side or the other, just posting the article and providing what I see as relevant background


Interesting. I'll have to see what the experts are saying about it, but it sounds dangerous to me.
American college football I can understand somewhat, because it's huge. I doubt hockey has the same following and profit margins.
There are way too many aspects to completely project the impact it would have, but there's definitely significant potential of that impact being a net negative for everyone involved.
15 févr. à 1 h 10
#1130
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Quoting: ricochetii
Interesting. I'll have to see what the experts are saying about it, but it sounds dangerous to me.
American college football I can understand somewhat, because it's huge. I doubt hockey has the same following and profit margins.
There are way too many aspects to completely project the impact it would have, but there's definitely significant potential of that impact being a net negative for everyone involved.


There are so many parallels between NCAA Football (and High School Recruiting) especially in the south to Junior hockey in Canada that I am sure attorneys built their case pretty easily and just needed some former players to be willing to challenge it (and form the "class" in the class-action suit). NCAA basketball was affected in much the same way.

The money flows from the NHL which is why they were named in their suit. The "fix" (from the NHL perspective) will be for the NHL to cut all financial and contractual ties to the CHL and reword their draft eligibility and ELC rights retention.

Along with the recent scandals, the Junior A leagues gaining power and severing from CHL, this financial and prestige blow could be pretty major. The best course of action is for the CHL to redefine itself and become a modern development league but that is nearly impossible for deeply entrenched cultural institutions to recognize and execute.

Even if this particular lawsuit fails to move forward, another will eventually.
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15 févr. à 1 h 24
#1131
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
There are so many parallels between NCAA Football (and High School Recruiting) especially in the south to Junior hockey in Canada that I am sure attorneys built their case pretty easily and just needed some former players to be willing to challenge it (and form the "class" in the class-action suit). NCAA basketball was affected in much the same way.

The money flows from the NHL which is why they were named in their suit. The "fix" (from the NHL perspective) will be for the NHL to cut all financial and contractual ties to the CHL and reword their draft eligibility and ELC rights retention.

Along with the recent scandals, the Junior A leagues gaining power and severing from CHL, this financial and prestige blow could be pretty major. The best course of action is for the CHL to redefine itself and become a modern development league but that is nearly impossible for deeply entrenched cultural institutions to recognize and execute.

Even if this particular lawsuit fails to move forward, another will eventually.


That's perhaps the most concerning part. The NHL having no reason to invest in "development leagues" will undoubtedly cause some teams to fail.

Some sort of restructuring is evidently inevitable, but I don't see a way for this to be a "win" for players (beyond a one time payoff for players who it no longer impacts).
15 févr. à 8 h 6
#1132
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I listen to this guy for his penguin takes.

He speculates Jake Guentzel may have a significant injury from last night. (Broken wrist)

Dejan Kovacevic
15 févr. à 9 h 57
#1133
Kansler
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Seems Jarmo has been finally let go by the Jackets.
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15 févr. à 10 h 44
#1134
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I really like Jarmo as a GM but it was time for CBJ to get a new man at the helm
15 févr. à 10 h 47
#1135
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Friedman saying there's a possibility Bedard plays tonight. Pretty surprising considering they were just a few days ago targeting next week.
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15 févr. à 11 h 12
#1136
18 lotteries, 0 wins
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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
15 févr. à 11 h 46
#1137
Amirov Forever
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Jarmo is out as GM of the Blue Jackets, and while the last offseason or two were filled with questionable decisions, he did an incredible job setting that team up for success. That Seth Jones trade was a real big highlight. I'm sure he'll find another job in the NHL relatively quickly
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15 févr. à 11 h 53
#1138
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Jarmo had some good moments but his last 2 years became a bit questionable

Gudbranson 4m being the notable lul as look what it did to Jireck

Hes gonna get a job elsewhere but would rather see him go to a contender then a rebuild as he seems to struggle there.
15 févr. à 13 h 9
#1139
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Quoting: aadoyle
Jarmo had some good moments but his last 2 years became a bit questionable

Gudbranson 4m being the notable lul as look what it did to Jireck

Hes gonna get a job elsewhere but would rather see him go to a contender then a rebuild as he seems to struggle there.


Could be a decent advisor to help buffalo make the jump, now that the rebuild is over.
15 févr. à 13 h 14
#1140
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jarmo overstayed his welcome in columbus by a handful of seasons, but the last straw should've been that babcock fiasco.

i guess that the powers that be didn't trust him going into the deadline
15 févr. à 13 h 51
#1141
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Calgarys doing the thing where the player (Markstrom) isn’t at practice which means they’re traded. And im so often let down these moments because no trade happens. And that seems to be the case.
15 févr. à 13 h 53
#1142
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: mondo
jarmo overstayed his welcome in columbus by a handful of seasons, but the last straw should've been that babcock fiasco.

i guess that the powers that be didn't trust him going into the deadline


Maybe. Or its that the handling of Jireck and no clear solution is where they went alright time to move on

As why not just waive Peeke or something and give Jireck a spot lul
15 févr. à 17 h 31
#1143
GM CRIME DAWG
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
I really like Jarmo as a GM but it was time for CBJ to get a new man at the helm


Just a layman's take from 50,000 feet - his moves always seemed like re-arranging the deck chairs OR player movement IN/OUT but rarely TEAM building...
15 févr. à 17 h 41
#1144
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: mondo
jarmo overstayed his welcome in columbus by a handful of seasons, but the last straw should've been that babcock fiasco.

i guess that the powers that be didn't trust him going into the deadline


Which is funny as he has shown to be able to sell

They want some new guy to come in and get robbed left and right idk
15 févr. à 17 h 43
#1145
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So Conroy wants to retool on the fly with CGY rather than rebuild

That says to me hes gonna want more player and ready now prospect based trades then just picks based

Kind of like what we saw with Toffoli and Lindholm where they got Kuzmenko and Sharangovich
15 févr. à 17 h 50
#1146
Amirov Forever
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Quoting: aadoyle
So Conroy wants to retool on the fly with CGY rather than rebuild

That says to me hes gonna want more player and ready now prospect based trades then just picks based

Kind of like what we saw with Toffoli and Lindholm where they got Kuzmenko and Sharangovich


I will never forgive Treliving if he trades Liljegren for Tanev
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15 févr. à 17 h 51
#1147
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05
I will never forgive Treliving if he trades Liljegren for Tanev


Probs will be for Tanev + Hanifin as Brad seems to want a 2 player deal for a 1st involved per Friedman

We already saw an attempt with Zadorov + Tanev

Like sacrificing him to get those two then extend both aint bad

Rielly-Tanev
Hanifin-Brodie
Benoit-McCabe

Rielly PP 1/ Hanifin PP 2
15 févr. à 18 h 5
#1148
Amirov Forever
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Quoting: aadoyle
Probs will be for Tanev + Hanifin as Brad seems to want a 2 player deal for a 1st involved per Friedman

We already saw an attempt with Zadorov + Tanev

Like sacrificing him to get those two then extend both aint bad

Rielly-Tanev
Hanifin-Brodie
Benoit-McCabe

Rielly PP 1/ Hanifin PP 2


Liljegren + for Hanifin (extended) would be fine by me. I suppose adding Tanev wouldn't hurt either
15 févr. à 18 h 33
#1149
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05
Liljegren + for Hanifin (extended) would be fine by me. I suppose adding Tanev wouldn't hurt either


In general got a feeling Brad's trying for more than just Tanev. As if he wanted just him deal be done by now

He wants something bigger
15 févr. à 19 h 30
#1150
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
I listen to this guy for his penguin takes.

He speculates Jake Guentzel may have a significant injury from last night. (Broken wrist)

Dejan Kovacevic


Looks like he was accurate. 4 weeks for Guentzel frown

I’m secretly rooting for the penguins. Sidney is too good, deserves good things.
 
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