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Why not 14

Créé par: DealFinder67
Équipe: 2023-24 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 17 nov. 2023
Publié: 17 nov. 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Transactions
1.
2.
CGY
  1. Abruzzese, Nick
  2. Klingberg, John
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (TOR)
3.
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Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2183 500 000 $79 343 950 $0 $1 000 000 $4 156 050 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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925 000 $925 000 $
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5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
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10 903 000 $10 903 000 $
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796 667 $796 667 $
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825 000 $825 000 $
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775 000 $775 000 $
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Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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7 500 000 $7 500 000 $
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3 150 000 $3 150 000 $
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766 667 $766 667 $
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1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ (Bonis de performance1 000 000 $$1M)
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Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
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4 687 500 $4 687 500 $
G
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17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 21
#1
Banni
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Leafs quickly decline Vancouver and la
17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 26
#2
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LA declines. LA is set at Right Def and have Clarke coming.

Roy is much better for LA than Lilijegren.

And Talbot (0.927 SV%) is ranked 10th in save percentage this season vs. Samsanov (0.870 SV %) is ranked 68th (below recently waived Jack Campbell). Did I also mention that Talbot is giving LA this at about 1/3 of the price.
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17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 26
#3
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Quoting: Kinger25
Leafs quickly decline Vancouver and la


LA and Vancouver don't get better from those trades, these favor the Leafs.
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17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 27
#4
Banni
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Quoting: tryger
LA and Vancouver don't get better from those trades, these favor the Leafs.


Regardless leaf’s aren’t doing them
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17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 30
#5
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We Need D!!
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Quoting: tryger
LA and Vancouver don't get better from those trades, these favor the Leafs.


Kinger he is saying the opposite of you. Lol.

I can see your point for LA but Van has been trying to move Garland for some time now and looking for a D. Seems like it would help both teams if Leafs acquired the other D first.
17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 32
#6
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Quoting: Kinger25
Regardless leaf’s aren’t doing them


I value your input about as much as I value Klingberg on the Leafs. See how Tryger comes with valid points.
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17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 34
#7
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Quoting: DealFinder67
Kinger he is saying the opposite of you. Lol.

I can see your point for LA but Van has been trying to move Garland for some time now and looking for a D. Seems like it would help both teams if Leafs acquired the other D first.


Teams who are rolling strong are fairly unlikely to make trades (like this), Garland is on the top line and Dakota is on the 3rd, what Vancouver wanted to do before has changed because they are one of the best teams in the league now.
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17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 35
#8
Banni
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Quoting: DealFinder67
I value your input about as much as I value Klingberg on the Leafs. See how Tryger comes with valid points.


Omg you’re the definition of a troll
17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 36
#9
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Quoting: DealFinder67
Kinger he is saying the opposite of you. Lol.

I can see your point for LA but Van has been trying to move Garland for some time now and looking for a D. Seems like it would help both teams if Leafs acquired the other D first.


Van is looking for a Right handed D. When healthy Tocchet rolls LHD-RHD. If they wanted to dumb trades Garland would've been dealt already. Joshua brings something that we don't have so we aren't moving him unless the offer knocks our socks off.
17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 37
#10
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Quoting: CM_Insane
Vancouver Brodie isn't someone Vancouver will be overly interested in.

Van is looking for a Right handed D. When healthy Tocchet rolls LHD-RHD. If they wanted to dumb trades Garland would've been dealt already. Joshua brings something that we don't have so we aren't moving him unless the offer knocks our socks off.


Brodie only plays on the right side sure he’s left handed but he’s likely better on the right he’s played right since joining the leafs lol
17 nov. 2023 à 11 h 40
#11
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Quoting: Kinger25
Brodie only plays on the right side sure he’s left handed but he’s likely better on the right he’s played right since joining the leafs lol


That's fine Van isn't overly interested in him Soucy and Cole both have played the Right side. The Canucks aren't overly interested in Brodie so win-win for both sides
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17 nov. 2023 à 13 h 4
#12
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i dont think this makes the canucks better. Garland has been great this year despite the low point totals. joshua has been excellent recently and one of the few players that brings size to vancouvers lineup.

brodie is washed and the jarnkrok contract isnt any better than the garland one.
17 nov. 2023 à 13 h 29
#13
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Quoting: tryger
LA and Vancouver don't get better from those trades, these favor the Leafs.


I may not agree with the assessment of the LA trade but to say Vancouver doesn't get better is ridiculous. Jarnkrock and Garland are basically a wash. Jarnkrock is better defensively, bigger and less than half the price. Dakota doesn't matter and Brodie would be the best defensive defenceman on the Canucks. It's terrible for TO.

I think Liljegren and Niemela are a lot more valuable than many think, which isn't a surprise most on this site seem to think all Leaf players are half as good as they are. Roy is good, Talbot is what he is, sometimes good, usually average or a bit below. It's a hefty price to pay for a decent defenceman.
17 nov. 2023 à 13 h 32
#14
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Quoting: The_Rocket
i dont think this makes the canucks better. Garland has been great this year despite the low point totals. joshua has been excellent recently and one of the few players that brings size to vancouvers lineup.

brodie is washed and the jarnkrok contract isnt any better than the garland one.


Your bias is grossly exposed here. Jarnkrok costs less than half of Garland, is better defensively and scores points as well. Garland and Jarnkrock offer the same on ice value. One better defensively and one better offensively and right now, the better defensive player is scoring close to the same amount of points for half the cost. Dakota doesn't matter and Brodie is better defensively than everyone on the Canucks. Stop hating the Leafs man, I get loving your own team but this is silly.
17 nov. 2023 à 13 h 43
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Quoting: RipNasty
I may not agree with the assessment of the LA trade but to say Vancouver doesn't get better is ridiculous. Jarnkrock and Garland are basically a wash. Jarnkrock is better defensively, bigger and less than half the price. Dakota doesn't matter and Brodie would be the best defensive defenceman on the Canucks. It's terrible for TO.

I think Liljegren and Niemela are a lot more valuable than many think, which isn't a surprise most on this site seem to think all Leaf players are half as good as they are. Roy is good, Talbot is what he is, sometimes good, usually average or a bit below. It's a hefty price to pay for a decent defenceman.


I feel like Brodie hasn't exactly been as advertised and really is starting to show that he is slowing down, I think most Leaf fans would agree with that assessment. Vancouver needs a shutdown RD badly, but I just don't see Brodie as it (even with $1M retained).

For the Kings, it's not a knock on the assets, the issue is Samsanov (the area the Kings need to improve on is net), he is playing worse than Jack Campbell who has been waived. Lijegren could become Matt Roy, but the Kings have a known commodity who gels with Gavrikov in Roy and who they are interested in reupping long-term.
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17 nov. 2023 à 13 h 52
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Quoting: tryger
I feel like Brodie hasn't exactly been as advertised and really is starting to show that he is slowing down, I think most Leaf fans would agree with that assessment. Vancouver needs a shutdown RD badly, but I just don't see Brodie as it (even with $1M retained).

For the Kings, it's not a knock on the assets, the issue is Samsanov (the area the Kings need to improve on is net), he is playing worse than Jack Campbell who has been waived. Lijegren could become Matt Roy, but the Kings have a known commodity who gels with Gavrikov in Roy and who they are interested in reupping long-term.


Samsonov was fine in his last game. I am certainly not that high on him but I'd take him over Talbot, who you just know is going to have a bad run sometime soon he always does. Liljegren is a top 4 defenceman with still a lot of upside for TO. They aren't likely to trade him I would wager and if you look at the list of former top defenceman from the world Juniors and Niemela is going to at the very least be a good top 4 defenceman down the line. If Roy became available, he's worth adding for sure but I don't see this as a trade that makes a lot of sense right now. For either team really
17 nov. 2023 à 13 h 58
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Quoting: RipNasty
Samsonov was fine in his last game. I am certainly not that high on him but I'd take him over Talbot, who you just know is going to have a bad run sometime soon he always does. Liljegren is a top 4 defenceman with still a lot of upside for TO. They aren't likely to trade him I would wager and if you look at the list of former top defenceman from the world Juniors and Niemela is going to at the very least be a good top 4 defenceman down the line. If Roy became available, he's worth adding for sure but I don't see this as a trade that makes a lot of sense right now. For either team really


Talbot is doing extremely well for LA albeit small sample size but he passes the eye test. I've only watched two Leaf games with Samsanov, it might not be all him, but he isn't helping.
17 nov. 2023 à 14 h 13
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Quoting: tryger
Talbot is doing extremely well for LA albeit small sample size but he passes the eye test. I've only watched two Leaf games with Samsanov, it might not be all him, but he isn't helping.


Samsonov is a frustrating goalie for sure. He has all world talent but his mental game can fall apart at times. He'll get back on a roll though and be much better but I still think Woll is better. Samsonov can be better than Talbot but he will also have really ugly stretches as well. Compared to Talbot, he has higher peaks and valleys
17 nov. 2023 à 14 h 21
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Quoting: RipNasty
Your bias is grossly exposed here. Jarnkrok costs less than half of Garland, is better defensively and scores points as well. Garland and Jarnkrock offer the same on ice value. One better defensively and one better offensively and right now, the better defensive player is scoring close to the same amount of points for half the cost. Dakota doesn't matter and Brodie is better defensively than everyone on the Canucks. Stop hating the Leafs man, I get loving your own team but this is silly.


Garland is better than jarnkrok and is 4.5 years younger. Jarnkrok is fine but his contract has way more downside compared to garland.

Jarnkrok has scored at above a 20 goal pace exactly once in his 11 year career. Garland has scored above a 20 goal pace 3 times in his 5 year career.

Per Evolving Hockey:

Garland has a better even strength defensive GAR than jarnkrok on all of the last four seasons except 2020-2021.

Garland has a better even strength offensive gar in 21 and 22 (though jarnkrok is better in 2023 and this season so far).

Garland has more takeaways than jarnkrok in all of the last 4 years including this season.

Garland has more blocks in every single of the last four seasons including this one.

Garland has drawn 2-5 times more minor penalties per season in ever single of the last four seasons, including this one (in 2022 garland drew 33 to Jarnkroks 7)

Garland has more shots on goal in every single one of the last 4 seasons including this one

Garland has fewer O-zone start % in each of the last 4 seasons except for 2021 than jarnkrok (tends to start in the neutral zone or on the fly more than jarnkrok.

Garlands 2022 and 2023 GAR blow anything jarnkrok has ever done in his career out of the water. jarnkrok has a higher GAR so far this season, so I guess the argument here is garland is washed and jarnkrok has improved, but aging curves suggest the opposite will be the case over the next couple years.

So any argument that jarnkrok is better defensively isn’t held up by the numbers.

Saying joshua doesn’t matter when he has clearly found a place on the Canucks 3rd line making sub 850k is an ignorant comment. Obviously getting cheap help like that matters.

As for brodie, he had a really good underlying profile last year, but was brutal in the playoffs and has t been good so far this year. Shoots left too which is not what Van is looking for.

Why does Van trade two players in their mid-twenties who are contributing very positively for them for two players in their early to mid 30s who don’t represent clear upgrades and have a greater chance of slowing down?

Doesn’t make sense for Van. If I’m acquiring brodie I’d rather give up a player like beauvillier who is also a UFA and has a similar cap hit and isn’t as good as garland. Otherwise, pass.

There are better rental Dmen out there like Tanev, walker, dumba, pesce, Zadorov, fabbro, carrier, seeker, Dermott, etc. all of these Dmen are either better or significantly cheaper and are better adds the Brodie at this stage in his career and with the way he has played to start the season
17 nov. 2023 à 14 h 31
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Quoting: RipNasty
Samsonov is a frustrating goalie for sure. He has all world talent but his mental game can fall apart at times. He'll get back on a roll though and be much better but I still think Woll is better. Samsonov can be better than Talbot but he will also have really ugly stretches as well. Compared to Talbot, he has higher peaks and valleys


10-4
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17 nov. 2023 à 14 h 49
#21
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Because we're not trading Matt Roy, that's why.

We fully expect to re-sign Roy to a five-season deal next year. He and Vladi Gavrikov make an excellent shut-down pair behind Mikey Anderson and Drew Doughty.
17 nov. 2023 à 15 h 1
#22
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Quoting: The_Rocket
Garland is better than jarnkrok and is 4.5 years younger. Jarnkrok is fine but his contract has way more downside compared to garland.

Jarnkrok has scored at above a 20 goal pace exactly once in his 11 year career. Garland has scored above a 20 goal pace 3 times in his 5 year career.

Per Evolving Hockey:

Garland has a better even strength defensive GAR than jarnkrok on all of the last four seasons except 2020-2021.

Garland has a better even strength offensive gar in 21 and 22 (though jarnkrok is better in 2023 and this season so far).

Garland has more takeaways than jarnkrok in all of the last 4 years including this season.

Garland has more blocks in every single of the last four seasons including this one.

Garland has drawn 2-5 times more minor penalties per season in ever single of the last four seasons, including this one (in 2022 garland drew 33 to Jarnkroks 7)

Garland has more shots on goal in every single one of the last 4 seasons including this one

Garland has fewer O-zone start % in each of the last 4 seasons except for 2021 than jarnkrok (tends to start in the neutral zone or on the fly more than jarnkrok.

Garlands 2022 and 2023 GAR blow anything jarnkrok has ever done in his career out of the water. jarnkrok has a higher GAR so far this season, so I guess the argument here is garland is washed and jarnkrok has improved, but aging curves suggest the opposite will be the case over the next couple years.

So any argument that jarnkrok is better defensively isn’t held up by the numbers.

Saying joshua doesn’t matter when he has clearly found a place on the Canucks 3rd line making sub 850k is an ignorant comment. Obviously getting cheap help like that matters.

As for brodie, he had a really good underlying profile last year, but was brutal in the playoffs and has t been good so far this year. Shoots left too which is not what Van is looking for.

Why does Van trade two players in their mid-twenties who are contributing very positively for them for two players in their early to mid 30s who don’t represent clear upgrades and have a greater chance of slowing down?

Doesn’t make sense for Van. If I’m acquiring brodie I’d rather give up a player like beauvillier who is also a UFA and has a similar cap hit and isn’t as good as garland. Otherwise, pass.

There are better rental Dmen out there like Tanev, walker, dumba, pesce, Zadorov, fabbro, carrier, seeker, Dermott, etc. all of these Dmen are either better or significantly cheaper and are better adds the Brodie at this stage in his career and with the way he has played to start the season


Garland makes nearly 5 million. Jarnkrock just over 2. End of debate
17 nov. 2023 à 15 h 19
#23
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Quoting: RipNasty
Garland makes nearly 5 million. Jarnkrock just over 2. End of debate


just silly. silly silly silly. obviously the younger player who is better makes more money. not a surprise
 
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