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Fantilli vs Michkov who add

Créé par: habitantlecolon
Équipe: 2023-24 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 15 juin 2023
Publié: 15 juin 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2083 500 000 $70 524 166 $1 170 000 $4 195 000 $12 975 834 $
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812 500 $812 500 $
AG, AD
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DD
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3 850 000 $3 850 000 $
G
M-NTC
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1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance275 000 $$275K)
DD
RFA - 1
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1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
G
UFA - 1
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1 400 000 $1 400 000 $
DG/DD
RFA - 2
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766 667 $766 667 $
DD
UFA - 2
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863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance420 000 $$420K)
DG/DD
RFA - 2
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762 500 $762 500 $
DD
UFA - 1
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7 850 000 $7 850 000 $
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G
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UFA - 3
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950 000 $950 000 $ (Bonis de performance3 500 000 $$4M)
AD, AG
RFA - 2
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DG/DD
RFA - 1

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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 3
#1
HuGo is a Boss GM
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Who adds between the 2nd and the 5th pick? Is this even a question?
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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 5
#2
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Le patriote
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Quoting: jonh514
Who adds between the 2nd and the 5th pick? Is this even a question?


i've named players ... and yet you guys go with rank ... I guess many here will be blasted in the stomach if it finish 1 vs 1 lol.
15 juin 2023 à 7 h 6
#3
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
i've named players ... and yet you guys go with rank ... I guess many here will be blast in the stomach if it finish 1 vs 1 lol.


Man is typing in cursive. What is this even supposed to mean?
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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 8
#4
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Ducks arent trading the pick so it doesnt matter
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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 9
#5
Pop Pop
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If you want 2 you add, it's pretty simple
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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 16
#6
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Quoting: Jfstompers
If you want 2 you add, it's pretty simple


if it was that simple the question wouldn't be here and DGs wouldn't talk ...
15 juin 2023 à 7 h 27
#7
Lenny7
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
if it was that simple the question wouldn't be here and DGs wouldn't talk ...


The issue is-You're framing this as if it's a question, yet the trade you posted is 2OA for 5OA, implying that you think that they both have the same value (I'm sure you don't, because that'd be silly). If you have a question about who will be better through their career, the forums are a great place!

FWIW, the gap between Michkov and Fantilli isn't perceived to be very big, the Russia factor/his contract in the KHL/if or when he comes across is what seperates them.

I'm taking Fantilli all day long, and living with the decision.

Edit: As for who adds for the picks? Montreal adds an absolute boatload to move up, none of which would make sense for them, which is why it'll never happen.
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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 32
#8
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Quoting: Lenny7
The issue is-You're framing this as if it's a question, yet the trade you posted is 2OA for 5OA, implying that you think that they both have the same value (I'm sure you don't, because that'd be silly). If you have a question about who will be better through their career, the forums are a great place!

FWIW, the gap between Michkov and Fantilli isn't perceived to be very big, the Russia factor/his contract in the KHL/if or when he comes across is what seperates them.

I'm taking Fantilli all day long, and living with the decision.

Edit: As for who adds for the picks? Montreal adds an absolute boatload to move up, none of which would make sense for them, which is why it'll never happen.


specify boatload for chart value plz
15 juin 2023 à 7 h 34
#9
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
i've named players ... and yet you guys go with rank ... I guess many here will be blasted in the stomach if it finish 1 vs 1 lol.


You named players, but then put up a trade and said "who add". What are smoking in that pipe homie?
15 juin 2023 à 7 h 39
#10
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Quoting: Hockey_Mind
You named players, but then put up a trade and said "who add". What are smoking in that pipe homie?


i'm just asking a freaking question that no one can answer properly ... if none of you know nothing why come to complain or refrain a damned question??
15 juin 2023 à 7 h 49
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
i'm just asking a freaking question that no one can answer properly ... if none of you know nothing why come to complain or refrain a damned question??


No one's answering it properly because you haven't asked it properly
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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 49
#12
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
i'm just asking a freaking question that no one can answer properly ... if none of you know nothing why come to complain or refrain a damned question??


We don't know how to answer properly? You asked "who add" and proposed 2OA for 5OA. I don't think the answers are the problem.
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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 51
#13
Lenny7
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
specify boatload for chart value plz


Blue Bullet Draft Pick Value, which is probably considered the more accurate model when it comes to NHL drafts:
2 OA=86.1
vs.
5 OA=54.7

Difference=31.4, which is slightly less than 9OA and slightly more than 10OA.

One of the HFboards has:
2OA=2600
vs.
5OA=1800

Difference=800, which is the value of about 15OA.

On top of all of this, factor in that Michkov might not even be available at 5OA, why bother gambling if you're Anaheim? You're getting as close to a sure-thing as you could hope for, and you're not dealing with the Russia issue. Verbeek is a pretty conservative GM. The whole Athletic article was as clickbait-y as they come, fired off in a time where there's been little to no hockey news in Montreal.
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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 51
#14
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Quoting: Hockey_Mind
We don't know how to answer properly? You asked "who add" and proposed 2OA for 5OA. I don't think the answers are the problem.


who add mean : state a proposal. You guys oddly doing : it's going to cost heavy or it won't happen : wich is litteraly dodging the question. If MTL need to add state names, picks etc. This is proper way to start the AGM game.
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15 juin 2023 à 7 h 53
#15
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Quoting: Lenny7
Blue Bullet Draft Pick Value, which is probably considered the more accurate model when it comes to NHL drafts:
2 OA=86.1
vs.
5 OA=54.7

Difference=31.4, which is slightly less than 9OA and slightly more than 10OA.

One of the HFboards has:
2OA=2600
vs.
5OA=1800

Difference=800, which is the value of about 15OA.

On top of all of this, factor in that Michkov might not even be available at 5OA, why bother gambling if you're Anaheim? You're getting as close to a sure-thing as you could hope for, and you're not dealing with the Russia issue. Verbeek is a pretty conservative GM. The whole Athletic article was as clickbait-y as they come, fired off in a time where there's been little to no hockey news in Montreal.


TANK YOU this is a proper answer. NOW usually we would go with such chart right? But is there any time in the last 30 years that a top 2 talent have slipped for nationality reason ? ( I mean is Michkov per talent and skill in the same mold as the chart)??
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15 juin 2023 à 8 h 9
#16
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
TANK YOU this is a proper answer. NOW usually we would go with such chart right? But is there any time in the last 30 years that a top 2 talent have slipped for nationality reason ? ( I mean is Michkov per talent and skill in the same mold as the chart)??


First, I don't think that I completely agree that Michkov is for sure the 2nd best player in this draft. There might be a slight gap between he and Fantilli, but I don't feel like it's substantial.

To answer your question though, off the top of my head, I'm thinking Kaprizov (Maybe not the 2nd best player from that draft, but easily top 5), but looking back to the Soviet Union days (Which is eerily similar to what's going on now in Russia), Alex Mogilny and Pavel Bure both come to mind. I'm sure that there's plenty of examples of 1st round talents slipping because of it as well, but without spending too much time on it, that's what I've got. The better question here is "How many times have we seen 2OA traded?", which is probably more rare than talent sliding in the draft.

Honestly, it's not going to shock me to see him fall even further than 5OA. My personal mock has:
-Bedard
-Fantilli
-Carlsson
-Smith
-Reinbacher
-Michkov (Arizona).

The GM who takes Michkov *has* to feel confident that he'll still be around in 3-4 years when he *might* get Michkov to NA. If Anaheim has slid to 3OA, I think Verbeek would have been in a position to take him, but Fantilli is there, and the Ducks need to start moving in the right direction, which is why Fantilli is the pick.
15 juin 2023 à 8 h 23
#17
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
i'm just asking a freaking question that no one can answer properly ... if none of you know nothing why come to complain or refrain a damned question??


From the looks of trade offers here involving Fantilli to Montreal I say.. HELL MF NO!!

People are irrational. Yes in past drafts it would be a big difference in value. But this draft is an exception to the rule with this top 5. Even Benson & Leonard could have been 1st overall options last year. Even at that, how much is there really a difference between Nemec, Korchinski & Jiricek. Or Beniers and Kent Johnson.

People play too much EA be a GM. They need to watch more hockey.
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15 juin 2023 à 8 h 37
#18
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Quoting: Went_Wughes
From the looks of trade offers here involving Fantilli to Montreal I say.. HELL MF NO!!

People are irrational. Yes in past drafts it would be a big difference in value. But this draft is an exception to the rule with this top 5. Even Benson & Leonard could have been 1st overall options last year. Even at that, how much is there really a difference between Nemec, Korchinski & Jiricek. Or Beniers and Kent Johnson.

People play too much EA be a GM. They need to watch more hockey.


Michkov is adding to the question mark and many people tend to diminish is value in some kind of way because they refuse to understand that the chart, the usual one, is litteraly off the grid of this year. We are in unknown ground and this could really well rewrite how we perceive players or rank value. And instead of trying to build reason they rather panic or be emotional.
15 juin 2023 à 8 h 40
#19
Banni
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Quoting: Lenny7
First, I don't think that I completely agree that Michkov is for sure the 2nd best player in this draft. There might be a slight gap between he and Fantilli, but I don't feel like it's substantial.

To answer your question though, off the top of my head, I'm thinking Kaprizov (Maybe not the 2nd best player from that draft, but easily top 5), but looking back to the Soviet Union days (Which is eerily similar to what's going on now in Russia), Alex Mogilny and Pavel Bure both come to mind. I'm sure that there's plenty of examples of 1st round talents slipping because of it as well, but without spending too much time on it, that's what I've got. The better question here is "How many times have we seen 2OA traded?", which is probably more rare than talent sliding in the draft.

Honestly, it's not going to shock me to see him fall even further than 5OA. My personal mock has:
-Bedard
-Fantilli
-Carlsson
-Smith
-Reinbacher
-Michkov (Arizona).

The GM who takes Michkov *has* to feel confident that he'll still be around in 3-4 years when he *might* get Michkov to NA. If Anaheim has slid to 3OA, I think Verbeek would have been in a position to take him, but Fantilli is there, and the Ducks need to start moving in the right direction, which is why Fantilli is the pick.


I feel like there is zero chance Reinbacher get dratted before Michkov Benson & Leonard. Even Moore & Dvorsky with top 6 center ceilings have more value than than a probable #3 dman.
15 juin 2023 à 8 h 45
#20
Banni
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
Michkov is adding to the question mark and many people tend to diminish is value in some kind of way because they refuse to understand that the chart, the usual one, is litteraly off the grid of this year. We are in unknown ground and this could really well rewrite how we perceive players or rank value. And instead of trying to build reason they rather panic or be emotional.


100%. Furthermore, the trend has been in our faces. Many Russian prospects signed to ELCs. The fact that geopolitics has entered this deeply into a single hockey player narrative is ridiculous. I think CBJ an SJ will regret not selecting him. And Montreal should select him and run.
15 juin 2023 à 9 h 4
#21
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Quoting: Went_Wughes
100%. Furthermore, the trend has been in our faces. Many Russian prospects signed to ELCs. The fact that geopolitics has entered this deeply into a single hockey player narrative is ridiculous. I think CBJ an SJ will regret not selecting him. And Montreal should select him and run.


draft, sign take him next year to america then trade him next draft for 1st overall ++ lol
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15 juin 2023 à 11 h 47
#22
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Quoting: habitantlecolon
draft, sign take him next year to america then trade him next draft for 1st overall ++ lol


But he's signed until 2026...
15 juin 2023 à 13 h 9
#23
Banni
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Quoting: Lenny7
But he's signed until 2026...


You know what he means. You really need to feel right that much?
15 juin 2023 à 13 h 54
#24
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Quoting: Lenny7
But he's signed until 2026...


you can land him a million so he can sign out from ska ...
29 juin 2023 à 6 h 24
#25
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Quoting: Went_Wughes
I feel like there is zero chance Reinbacher get dratted before Michkov Benson & Leonard. Even Moore & Dvorsky with top 6 center ceilings have more value than than a probable #3 dman.


Welcome to Montreal, David Reiinnnnnnbacheerrrrrrrrrrr.
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