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Selling a bit

Créé par: fixitf11
Équipe: 2023-24 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Date de création initiale: 28 mai 2023
Publié: 28 mai 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
2900 000 $
2900 000 $
2900 000 $
2900 000 $
54 200 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
43 500 000 $
33 750 000 $
Offres hostiles
Le salaire annuel moyen (AAV) de l'offre hostile est calculé en divisant la valeur totale du contrat par: 1. La durée totale du contrat, ou 2. Cinq ans
JOUEURAAVCOMPENSATION
Lafrenière, Alexis4 200 000 $
Choix de 2e ronde en 2024
Transactions
1.
PIT
  1. Lundkvist, Nils
  2. Stranges, Antonio
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (DAL)
DAL
  1. Guentzel, Jake (3 000 000 $ retained)
2.
PIT
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (CBJ)
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2024 (LAK)
3.
PIT
  1. Goodrow, Barclay
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (NYR)
NYR
    Cap space
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    TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
    2383 500 000 $69 448 750 $0 $850 000 $14 051 250 $
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    4 200 000 $4 200 000 $
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    UFA - 4
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    Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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    NMC
    UFA - 5
    3 750 000 $3 750 000 $
    G
    UFA - 5
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    900 000 $900 000 $
    DG/DD
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    2 343 750 $2 343 750 $
    DD
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    G
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    UFA - 2
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    925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
    DD
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    Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
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    DD
    UFA - 1
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    775 000 $775 000 $
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    UFA - 1
    Équipe de réserve
    Logo de Stars de Dallas
    846 667 $846 667 $ (0 $$00 $$0) (Bonis de performance57 500 $$58K)
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    RFA - 2
    Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
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    886 667 $886 667 $ (0 $$00 $$0) (Bonis de performance57 500 $$58K)
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    28 mai 2023 à 19 h 41
    #1
    Hockey IQ
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    Not sure if DAL would even be interested in Guentzel, but for a retained Guentzel PIT would ask for Stankoven and I’m not sure DAL would want to do that bc they need players on their entry level deals
    28 mai 2023 à 19 h 55
    #2
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    Troll job.
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 5
    #3
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    This ain’t it. What is the fascination with trading Jake 50% retained and then replacing him with garbage. Do you really think they’d do the core like that?
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 12
    #4
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    Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
    This ain’t it. What is the fascination with trading Jake 50% retained and then replacing him with garbage. Do you really think they’d do the core like that?


    What do you propose we do? Because we can't lose him for nothing, but also can't afford giving out an 8 x 8 extension
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 13
    #5
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    Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
    This ain’t it. What is the fascination with trading Jake 50% retained and then replacing him with garbage. Do you really think they’d do the core like that?


    Do you really think this core can win? I keep posting ACGMs where I either sell or go all in. Every time I get met with responses of either “but the core deserves to win” or “you’re trading away too much to compete and ruining the future”. I’m tired of people not realizing that we are in the end of the era and the core is all 35+. We are the new red wings. It’s time we treat the problem like it is instead of pretending we can win another cup and causing a decade of awful teams after the fact instead of trying to do a quick retool that MAYBE some of the core can be around for kinda like LA
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    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 13
    #6
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    Quoting: pensfan21
    What do you propose we do? Because we can't lose him for nothing, but also can't afford giving out an 8 x 8 extension


    Why can’t we lose him for nothing? We aren’t tanking so that’s what happens to winning teams. They lose free agents. Not sure why we can’t afford re-signing him either.
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 14
    #7
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    Quoting: pensfan21
    What do you propose we do? Because we can't lose him for nothing, but also can't afford giving out an 8 x 8 extension


    Exactly. Although I’d bet that if we trade him it would be at the deadline. (It’s hard to do a deadline ACGM when the offseason hasn’t even started yet lol)
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    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 16
    #8
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    Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
    Why can’t we lose him for nothing? We aren’t tanking so that’s what happens to winning teams. They lose free agents. Not sure why we can’t afford re-signing him either.

    We aren’t a winning team anymore. We need to think about the future instead of thinking a bunch of 35 year olds can will its way to a cup. I love this team but I realize that Malkin and Letang are defensive liabilities, and Crosbys line always gets killed in the postseason as of late due to the overly physical way teams counter it. If the goal is to win a cup as soon as possible, then a rebuild or retool is the fastest way.
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 16
    #9
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    Quoting: fixitf11
    Do you really think this core can win? I keep posting ACGMs where I either sell or go all in. Every time I get met with responses of either “but the core deserves to win” or “you’re trading away too much to compete and ruining the future”. I’m tired of people not realizing that we are in the end of the era and the core is all 35+. We are the new red wings. It’s time we treat the problem like it is instead of pretending we can win another cup and causing a decade of awful teams after the fact instead of trying to do a quick retool that MAYBE some of the core can be around for kinda like LA


    It doesn’t matter what I believe the core can do. They aren’t going to do the core dirty like that. You never bet against Crosby, Malkin, and Letang.
    The difference between LA and Pittsburgh is that their core was younger when they started the re-tool/mini rebuild. The pens just gotta keep building through free agency and hoping it works out and hope to get out of some bad contracts in the process while not giving up high picks/prospects.
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 18
    #10
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    Quoting: fixitf11
    Do you really think this core can win? I keep posting ACGMs where I either sell or go all in. Every time I get met with responses of either “but the core deserves to win” or “you’re trading away too much to compete and ruining the future”. I’m tired of people not realizing that we are in the end of the era and the core is all 35+. We are the new red wings. It’s time we treat the problem like it is instead of pretending we can win another cup and causing a decade of awful teams after the fact instead of trying to do a quick retool that MAYBE some of the core can be around for kinda like LA


    You'll get a lot of hate for saying it, but is it really that hot of a take after 4 straight playoff exits followed by a playoff miss? Even if it's not the case, it is hard to imagine them winning another playoff series after the last few years. And I don't even fault the core, it's just the natural progression of a dynasty.
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    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 18
    #11
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    Modifié 28 mai 2023 à 20 h 24
    Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
    It doesn’t matter what I believe the core can do. They aren’t going to do the core dirty like that. You never bet against Crosby, Malkin, and Letang.
    The difference between LA and Pittsburgh is that their core was younger when they started the re-tool/mini rebuild. The pens just gotta keep building through free agency and hoping it works out and hope to get out of some bad contracts in the process while not giving up high picks/prospects.


    How do you get rid of bad contracts without giving up the future. The only contract that is a good buyout is granlund. And agreed that LAs core was younger, but if you try to extend the window through free agency (which is exactly what Detroit did that pushed them so far back years ago) your team only gets older and there is risk of signing even more bad contracts.
    Also it’s worth noting that FSG has no connection to the core. The penguins do, the ownership does not. Lemieux is no longer active in the penguins ownership so FSG has no loyalty to the core unless they want to be loyal to them.
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    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 19
    #12
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    Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
    Why can’t we lose him for nothing? We aren’t tanking so that’s what happens to winning teams. They lose free agents. Not sure why we can’t afford re-signing him either.


    Ok so what if we are borderline wild card or out of the playoff race at the deadline? Should we still just let him walk for nothing, despite the fact we could get at least a 1st and an A prospect back? It's just bad asset management
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 21
    #13
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    Quoting: pensfan21
    Ok so what if we are borderline wild card or out of the playoff race at the deadline? Should we still just let him walk for nothing, despite the fact we could get at least a 1st and an A prospect back? It's just bad asset management


    Omg the answer to my prayers!!! A pens fan that agrees with me on capfriendly lol
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    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 41
    #14
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    Quoting: fixitf11
    Omg the answer to my prayers!!! A pens fan that agrees with me on capfriendly lol


    Yup I think we are on the same page. I mean I'd love nothing more than to contend a few more years, but I can't help it that I just cannot see if happening. Even if we do make some free agency signings to try and contend, absolutely need to keep the 1st round pick.
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 43
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    Quoting: fixitf11
    How do you get rid of bad contracts without giving up the future. The only contract that is a good buyout is granlund. And agreed that LAs core was younger, but if you try to extend the window through free agency (which is exactly what Detroit did that pushed them so far back years ago) your team only gets older and there is risk of signing even more bad contracts.
    Also it’s worth noting that FSG has no connection to the core. The penguins do, the ownership does not. Lemieux is no longer active in the penguins ownership so FSG has no loyalty to the core unless they want to be loyal to them.


    It doesn’t matter how far it sets us back after the core retires the team is going total rebuild.
    How do you get out of bad contracts. Well buyout Granlund is a start. Carter is only a year and you’re stuck with it. Petry can be traded for nothing. He doesn’t have negative value. If you really believe he does at a full cap hit, then retain 50% on him. Rutta again doesn’t have negative value and can be traded for at worst FC.
    FSG has already stated that the core are retiring penguins. Especially Crosby and Malkin. That’s why they just re-signed Malkin to a 4 year deal with a full NMC and signed Letang to a 6 year deal with a full NMC in the first half and a M-NTC in the second half.
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 46
    #16
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    Quoting: pensfan21
    Ok so what if we are borderline wild card or out of the playoff race at the deadline? Should we still just let him walk for nothing, despite the fact we could get at least a 1st and an A prospect back? It's just bad asset management


    If we are a borderline wild card team…absolutely you don’t trade him. You’re still contending. If the team is out of it or basically out of it come deadline, and they can’t re-sign him by then, then that is totally different. You absolutely trade him 50% but you definitely get more than just a 1st and a couple prospects or essentially paying to dump him 50% retained like in another acgm.
    28 mai 2023 à 20 h 53
    #17
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    Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
    If we are a borderline wild card team…absolutely you don’t trade him. You’re still contending. If the team is out of it or basically out of it come deadline, and they can’t re-sign him by then, then that is totally different. You absolutely trade him 50% but you definitely get more than just a 1st and a couple prospects or essentially paying to dump him 50% retained like in another acgm.


    If we're one point out of wild card and playing as poorly as we did last year at the time of the TDL do we trade him or risk losing him for nothing? Like last year it was so obvious we weren't going anywhere at TDL. Not because of our standing position, but because of how we were playing and the glaring issues we had. Had more to do with the way we were losing and inability to play team defense, a must for the playoffs. If it's like injuries and stuff like that why were low in standings maybe you take that chance, but not if we just look bad overall and have structural issues as bad as last year. And if we miss playoffs again I don't know why we'd re-sign him to an 8 x 8 deal. Missing 2 years in a row after losing 4 playoff series with a team as old as ours to me signals it's time for a rebuild. That's not the type of contract you give anywhere close to a rebuild. Like I'm open to the idea of trying to see if we can contend another year, especially if it's a smart GM like Dubas, but if we miss again even after that then to me there's no question that it's rebuild time.
    28 mai 2023 à 21 h 11
    #18
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    Quoting: pensfan21
    If we're one point out of wild card and playing as poorly as we did last year at the time of the TDL do we trade him or risk losing him for nothing? Like last year it was so obvious we weren't going anywhere at TDL. Not because of our standing position, but because of how we were playing and the glaring issues we had. Had more to do with the way we were losing and inability to play team defense, a must for the playoffs. If it's like injuries and stuff like that why were low in standings maybe you take that chance, but not if we just look bad overall and have structural issues as bad as last year. And if we miss playoffs again I don't know why we'd re-sign him to an 8 x 8 deal. Missing 2 years in a row after losing 4 playoff series with a team as old as ours to me signals it's time for a rebuild. That's not the type of contract you give anywhere close to a rebuild. Like I'm open to the idea of trying to see if we can contend another year, especially if it's a smart GM like Dubas, but if we miss again even after that then to me there's no question that it's rebuild time.


    They just are never going to do that to Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. Especially Crosby. As long as he is here, they will contend. It doesn’t matter what we think they should do. If they are contending for a playoff spot, whether it’s barely in or barely out, they will keep him and go for it. Most likely they re-sign him and then when Crosby and Geno retire they likely trade him to a contender and start the rebuild. Same with Rakell and Rust. But with how the recent signings have had their contracts structured, they are definitely contending for at least 2 years…probably 4 years.
    28 mai 2023 à 21 h 25
    #19
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    Modifié 28 mai 2023 à 21 h 33
    Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
    They just are never going to do that to Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. Especially Crosby. As long as he is here, they will contend. It doesn’t matter what we think they should do. If they are contending for a playoff spot, whether it’s barely in or barely out, they will keep him and go for it. Most likely they re-sign him and then when Crosby and Geno retire they likely trade him to a contender and start the rebuild. Same with Rakell and Rust. But with how the recent signings have had their contracts structured, they are definitely contending for at least 2 years…probably 4 years.


    2 years you can make the case. But no way they contend for 4 more years. Your first point in principal is correct, but I don't believe they will be contending for a playoff spot for that long. If they are close then sure that argument can be made. But at some point in the next few years they will drop off. And badly. Who knows for sure when that will come. If they miss playoffs by a lot then do they rebuild? Like at some point they will have to accept it. When you try to contend and you miss playoffs by a lot then at that point its irrefutable. Here's the issue with the Rakell, Rust, Guentzel contracts. They have value now, but will they in 2 years? Or 4 years like you are saying? The Rust contract already might not have value. They will not retain the value for long. Look I would love nothing more than for the core to contend and retire here together. Seeing them win another cup together would be unreal. But is it realistic at this point? Not blaming them at all, but Hextall made a lot of decisions that really dug this roster into a deep hole. That I don't know can be fixed in an offseason. If we miss by a lot, like 10 or more points, and it continues to go downhill, is it fair to force the core to go out like that? If they want to stay through the rebuild and mentor young talent then absolutely they should. But if they want to go to a contender as opposed to remain on a declining team they have that right. They've earned it. As much as I will not like it. Again, hope they stay. I think the disconnect here is that I agree with what your saying in principal and if what your saying happens then I'm fine contending, but I think we are closer to a drastic drop off than a cup. I really really hope they all prove me wrong. Like I said, if we hire Dubas I will have a lot of optimism. I think he will have full control to do whatever he wants, which is what the team needs.
    30 mai 2023 à 9 h 20
    #20
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    Quoting: pensfan21
    What do you propose we do? Because we can't lose him for nothing, but also can't afford giving out an 8 x 8 extension


    They can easily afford an 8x8 extension. There's no reason to dump him
    30 mai 2023 à 9 h 24
    #21
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    Quoting: fixitf11
    We aren’t a winning team anymore. We need to think about the future instead of thinking a bunch of 35 year olds can will its way to a cup. I love this team but I realize that Malkin and Letang are defensive liabilities, and Crosbys line always gets killed in the postseason as of late due to the overly physical way teams counter it. If the goal is to win a cup as soon as possible, then a rebuild or retool is the fastest way.


    Except Malkin and Letang are good and Crosby's line hasn't been getting killed in the playoffs?
    1 juin 2023 à 9 h 17
    #22
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    Quoting: JSEB93
    They can easily afford an 8x8 extension. There's no reason to dump him


    Starting to come around to the idea of using the 1st round pick in a trade. I still would rather rebuild, but if we go all in we have to go absolutely all in. This in between thing and trying to manage both which I've been doing I just don't think will work. All our draft picks now will be entering the league by time we rebuild and the timing makes it so we might have to trade them for future assets anyways. I will say though, I would not trade it for a goalie. I think we need to trade it for a young, faster, truly impact player that will significantly help the roster. And I know we've had the discussion about young vs. speed, but I say young because then when it's time to rebuild we can trade that player for a 1st hopefully to jumpstart things. I'm thinking Necas, Kuznestov, Nylander, players like that. I would take it year by year though. Not trade any of 2024's picks.
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    1 juin 2023 à 9 h 27
    #23
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    Quoting: pensfan21
    Starting to come around to the idea of using the 1st round pick in a trade. I still would rather rebuild, but if we go all in we have to go absolutely all in. This in between thing and trying to manage both which I've been doing I just don't think will work. All our draft picks now will be entering the league by time we rebuild and the timing makes it so we might have to trade them for future assets anyways.


    Welcome to the dark side lol.

    The in between is definitely the toughest scenario to navigate in my opinion. I do think you could probably trade Guenztel for future assets and still field a competitive team if you wanted to - I guess the question is do we want to? If the players came together and decided to waive their clauses - I could understand a rebuild. I just think they're a bit handcuffed right now.

    You're right about the timing. No draft picks from this season on will make it to the NHL in time for this window - so it would put them in an awkward spot. I don't think they necessarily have to trade the 1st round pick to build a competitive team - but if it's some kind of significant upgrade I'm open to going for it.
    1 juin 2023 à 9 h 46
    #24
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    Quoting: JSEB93
    Welcome to the dark side lol.

    The in between is definitely the toughest scenario to navigate in my opinion. I do think you could probably trade Guenztel for future assets and still field a competitive team if you wanted to - I guess the question is do we want to? If the players came together and decided to waive their clauses - I could understand a rebuild. I just think they're a bit handcuffed right now.

    You're right about the timing. No draft picks from this season on will make it to the NHL in time for this window - so it would put them in an awkward spot. I don't think they necessarily have to trade the 1st round pick to build a competitive team - but if it's some kind of significant upgrade I'm open to going for it.


    I agree. Whether Guentzel will be traded or not is interesting. I think Guentzel for Devon Towes is a very interesting idea. We desperately need a puck moving D who can help with the transition game. Chychrun would've been perfect, but Towes I like a lot too.
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    1 juin 2023 à 10 h 51
    #25
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    Quoting: pensfan21
    I agree. Whether Guentzel will be traded or not is interesting. I think Guentzel for Devon Towes is a very interesting idea. We desperately need a puck moving D who can help with the transition game. Chychrun would've been perfect, but Towes I like a lot too.


    I'd love Toews and the Avs cap situation definitely makes him attainable. I'm just wondering if you make that trade you're only saving like 2mil so who replaces Guentzel?
     
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