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How Id fix the D

Créé par: pensfan21
Équipe: 2023-24 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Date de création initiale: 28 mai 2023
Publié: 28 mai 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
2900 000 $
2850 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
45 000 000 $
23 300 000 $
55 500 000 $
33 500 000 $
22 250 000 $
33 350 000 $
22 250 000 $
22 250 000 $
Transactions
1.
2.
PIT
  1. Minten, Fraser
  2. Murray, Matt
  3. Robertson, Nicholas
  4. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (BOS)
TOR
  1. Carter, Jeff
  2. Guentzel, Jake (3 000 000 $ retained)
  3. Joseph, Pierre-Olivier
  4. Nylander, Alexander
  5. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (NJD)
3.
PIT
ARI
  1. Rutta, Jan
  2. Choix de 5e ronde en 2023 (PIT)
  3. Choix de 6e ronde en 2023 (PIT)
  4. Choix de 6e ronde en 2024 (PIT)
Rachats de contrats
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
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2024
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2025
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2083 500 000 $77 641 425 $0 $0 $5 858 575 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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8 700 000 $8 700 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 2
2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 7
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796 667 $796 667 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
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6 100 000 $6 100 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 3
3 350 000 $3 350 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 5
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 4
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
5 125 000 $5 125 000 $
AD, AG
NMC
UFA - 5
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850 000 $850 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
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863 333 $863 333 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
4 025 175 $4 025 175 $
DG
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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6 100 000 $6 100 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 5
2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
G
UFA - 5
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
2 343 750 $2 343 750 $
DD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
4 687 500 $4 687 500 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
900 000 $900 000 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
3 300 000 $3 300 000 $
DD
UFA - 3

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28 mai 2023 à 19 h 15
#1
sensonfire
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Ottawa accepts.
28 mai 2023 à 19 h 22
#2
Future Norris guy
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That garbage alone doesn't get Jake Guentzel, Let alone adding the rest to the deal.
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28 mai 2023 à 19 h 38
#3
Hockey IQ
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Yeah not sure why we are gifting a $3M 40-goal scorer to TOR…
Aside from Engvall on the 1st line, I do like a lot of the signings tho
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28 mai 2023 à 20 h 6
#4
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The Leafs have some decent prospects, Nicholas Robertson isn’t one of them. You really overpaid to sell Rutta. ERod will never be in Pittsburgh again as long as Sully’s here. 20 player rosters aren’t a thing.
28 mai 2023 à 20 h 9
#5
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Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
That garbage alone doesn't get Jake Guentzel, Let alone adding the rest to the deal.


Wouldn't call a 1st round pick and Minter Fraser garbage
28 mai 2023 à 20 h 11
#6
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You’d fix the d by destroying the forward group and goaltending even more, dumping Rutta to sign a more expensive Rutta, swapping POJ for POJ lite, and bringing in Orlov? You essentially did the opposite of your supposed intention. This team went from a wildcard team to a bottom 5 team.
28 mai 2023 à 20 h 14
#7
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Quoting: pensfan21
Wouldn't call a 1st round pick and Minter Fraser garbage


Wow 28th overall pick and Minten Fraser, How can you go wrong. That doesn't even get a Jake Guentzel signed autograph. And yes the rest after that is pure trash.
28 mai 2023 à 20 h 15
#8
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Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
You’d fix the d by destroying the forward group and goaltending even more, dumping Rutta to sign a more expensive Rutta, swapping POJ for POJ lite, and bringing in Orlov? You essentially did the opposite of your supposed intention. This team went from a wildcard team to a bottom 5 team.


Wildcard? We didn't make the playoffs this year. What makes you think it would be any better next year? Your acting like bringing in Orlov is a bad thing. He's a great puck mover and overall D, which is exactly what we need. Gudas is better than Rutta and plays with way more physicality (something we completely lack). I think most people agree Smith has a higher ceiling than POJ. And this is a much much deeper forward core than last year with more speed and physicality. Crosby would be great with Bertuzzi, I think he's a fine replacement. Bottom 6 way better and almost all of them can play top 6 if needed. I'll take a more balanced forward core than being top heavy like last year. And keep in mind, Guentzel is literally my favorite player next to Crosby, but we can't extend him and I do not want to lose him for nothing.
28 mai 2023 à 20 h 16
#9
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Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
Wow 28th overall pick and Minten Fraser, How can you go wrong. That doesn't even get a Jake Guentzel signed autograph. And yes the rest after that is pure trash.


Well when you have the worst prospect pool in the entire league even a late 1st round pick in a stacked draft could be useful. After all, Guentzel, who we are replacing here, was drafted in the 2nd round.
28 mai 2023 à 20 h 21
#10
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Quoting: pensfan21
Well when you have the worst prospect pool in the entire league even a late 1st round pick in a stacked draft could be useful. After all, Guentzel, who we are replacing here, was drafted in the 2nd round.


Jake Guentzel on his next deal probably gets around 8x8. Toronto is the wrong team to trade him to.
28 mai 2023 à 20 h 37
#11
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Quoting: pensfan21
Wildcard? We didn't make the playoffs this year. What makes you think it would be any better next year? Your acting like bringing in Orlov is a bad thing. He's a great puck mover and overall D, which is exactly what we need. Gudas is better than Rutta and plays with way more physicality (something we completely lack). I think most people agree Smith has a higher ceiling than POJ. And this is a much much deeper forward core than last year with more speed and physicality. Crosby would be great with Bertuzzi, I think he's a fine replacement. Bottom 6 way better and almost all of them can play top 6 if needed. I'll take a more balanced forward core than being top heavy like last year. And keep in mind, Guentzel is literally my favorite player next to Crosby, but we can't extend him and I do not want to lose him for nothing.


I never said bringing in Orlov was a bad thing. I said as a whole product it’s a downgrade. And yes this team is a wild card team. They were a point away from making the playoffs and lost quite a few games via some dumb luck. This team is literally between a 10th place team and a 7th place team. Ty Smith’s ceiling is a 2nd pair D and that’s being generous. He most likely is a 3rd pair defenseman. POJ is likely a 2nd pair D. So you’re hoping Smith can become what POJ is now. Why take the risk?
Gudas isn’t an improvement on Rutta. Both are 3rd pair dmen that could probably give 2nd pair minutes for short spurts ICE. Being physical means nothing when the system doesn’t call for it. Players that are good puck movers and skate well thrive better than ones that can’t and rely on physicality. And this forward core is in no way shape or form deeper than last year. That’s just laughable. You’re going from Guentzel to Bertuzzi on the 1st line LW which is a downgrade. You’re going from Zucker to a guy that couldn’t even crack the piss poor bottom 6 of Toronto in Robertson. That’s an extreme downgrade. You’re asking Bertuzzi, and the two 35+ year olds to carry 3 players that shouldn’t be anywhere near a top 6 of a decent team just so you can stuff top 6 players into your bottom 6 to pretend there is depth when there isn’t. And Poulin absolutely isn’t ready for the nhl. He missed most of last season. He needs time in the Ahl to season a bit.
And even if you want to pretend the forward core and the d core are vastly improved…it doesn’t matter at all cause the goaltending is absolutely atrocious. If you thought this year was bad goaltending wise, this duo would be probably 10 times worse.
28 mai 2023 à 20 h 49
#12
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Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
I never said bringing in Orlov was a bad thing. I said as a whole product it’s a downgrade. And yes this team is a wild card team. They were a point away from making the playoffs and lost quite a few games via some dumb luck. This team is literally between a 10th place team and a 7th place team. Ty Smith’s ceiling is a 2nd pair D and that’s being generous. He most likely is a 3rd pair defenseman. POJ is likely a 2nd pair D. So you’re hoping Smith can become what POJ is now. Why take the risk?
Gudas isn’t an improvement on Rutta. Both are 3rd pair dmen that could probably give 2nd pair minutes for short spurts ICE. Being physical means nothing when the system doesn’t call for it. Players that are good puck movers and skate well thrive better than ones that can’t and rely on physicality. And this forward core is in no way shape or form deeper than last year. That’s just laughable. You’re going from Guentzel to Bertuzzi on the 1st line LW which is a downgrade. You’re going from Zucker to a guy that couldn’t even crack the piss poor bottom 6 of Toronto in Robertson. That’s an extreme downgrade. You’re asking Bertuzzi, and the two 35+ year olds to carry 3 players that shouldn’t be anywhere near a top 6 of a decent team just so you can stuff top 6 players into your bottom 6 to pretend there is depth when there isn’t. And Poulin absolutely isn’t ready for the nhl. He missed most of last season. He needs time in the Ahl to season a bit.
And even if you want to pretend the forward core and the d core are vastly improved…it doesn’t matter at all cause the goaltending is absolutely atrocious. If you thought this year was bad goaltending wise, this duo would be probably 10 times worse.


So if we missed the playoffs by a point last year what will it be next year with everyone a year older? And with emerging teams like Buffalo, Detroit, and Ottawa likely to make the playoffs.

Smith didn't get a chance last year, but it matters a lot if his ceiling and talent level is higher because we need as much youth in the lineup as we can get. POJ was solid overall, but I wouldn't say he's a great 2nd pair guy. Solid, but much better on 3rd pair.

Gudas is for sure an improvement. He's been playing fantastic this playoffs. And physicality does matter. It's evidenced by this playoffs. There's no way we could handle Florida in a 7 game series with the physicality they bring. I know our system doesn't call for it, it's time to change the system. There's no way we can get enough youth and speed to be able to implement Sully's system. I'm not saying get a bunch of goons, but get some guys with physicality and grit who can also play. We need a Hornqvist type badly. That's what Bertuzzi is.

Vegas has a bunch of backups rotating in goal. Bobrovsky was not playing up to standard during the season. So much of winning in the playoffs is just what goalie gets hot at the right time. No one would've predicted Bobrovsky playing like this. I would rather have a solid 1a 1b tandem and see who gets hot then trade a valuable 1st round pick and prospect for a goalie who may or may not work out. The position is so volatile right now.

I can understand your criticisms, I just think a team like us right now should focus on the future and restoring our prospect pool, even if we try and retool the team through free agency and contend 1-2 more years.
28 mai 2023 à 21 h 7
#13
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Quoting: pensfan21
So if we missed the playoffs by a point last year what will it be next year with everyone a year older? And with emerging teams like Buffalo, Detroit, and Ottawa likely to make the playoffs.

Smith didn't get a chance last year, but it matters a lot if his ceiling and talent level is higher because we need as much youth in the lineup as we can get. POJ was solid overall, but I wouldn't say he's a great 2nd pair guy. Solid, but much better on 3rd pair.

Gudas is for sure an improvement. He's been playing fantastic this playoffs. And physicality does matter. It's evidenced by this playoffs. There's no way we could handle Florida in a 7 game series with the physicality they bring. I know our system doesn't call for it, it's time to change the system. There's no way we can get enough youth and speed to be able to implement Sully's system. I'm not saying get a bunch of goons, but get some guys with physicality and grit who can also play. We need a Hornqvist type badly. That's what Bertuzzi is.

Vegas has a bunch of backups rotating in goal. Bobrovsky was not playing up to standard during the season. So much of winning in the playoffs is just what goalie gets hot at the right time. No one would've predicted Bobrovsky playing like this. I would rather have a solid 1a 1b tandem and see who gets hot then trade a valuable 1st round pick and prospect for a goalie who may or may not work out. The position is so volatile right now.

I can understand your criticisms, I just think a team like us right now should focus on the future and restoring our prospect pool, even if we try and retool the team through free agency and contend 1-2 more years.


Well it depends on the free agent signings. Crosby, Malkin, and Letang look great and I find it hard to believe they will have a massive drop off. Rakell, Rust, and Jake are in their prime still. Pettersson is just entering his prime. POJ and smith will be entering their primes in a few years, Rutta is in his early 30s still. Poehling and Nylander are still young. I mean you’re complaining about being old then trade young players to replace them with much older and lesser players lol. Make it make sense.

Again Smith’s ceiling isn’t higher than POJ’s lol. Smith’s ceiling is hoping to be where POJ is now. They are both the same age. Most likely what happens is POJ is a good 2nd pair D and Smith is a solid 3rd pair D. I mean it was only POJ’s first season. He should get better as he enters his prime.

Gudas for sure isn’t an improvement. It’s rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. He’s playing good this playoffs…whoopty do. Rutta played well with TB in the playoffs lol. That means nothing if he comes to Pittsburgh playing in Sully’s system which doesn’t call for that type of play. And whether you believe it’s time to change the system is irrelevant. Sully never will. So keep dreaming. Also I’ve never said I was against signing Bertuzzi. But as a whole the forward core sucks just as bad, if not worse than last year. If Bertuzzi is replacing Zucker, great. If he’s replacing a 40 goal scoring Guentzel AND Zucker …not so great.

Right vegas is doing that in the playoffs. You think that would hold up the whole regular season? And Florida only got in cause the pens crapped the bed. There are plenty of better options in free agency than the oft-injured Murray and the very inconsistent Korpisalo. You’re better off re-signing Jarry and bringing in a Freddy Andersen than this tandem.

The pens can restock their prospect pool by keeping their 1sts and signing college free agents and allowing for more opportunity in the AHL for drafted and signed players rather than filling up with guys like Caggiula, Ouellet, and other journeyman AHL players to play the significant roles. Maybe guys like Hallander wouldn’t sign 5 year deals in Sweden to take him to UFA or Lindberg wouldn’t sign a deal in Finland.
28 mai 2023 à 21 h 19
#14
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Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
Well it depends on the free agent signings. Crosby, Malkin, and Letang look great and I find it hard to believe they will have a massive drop off. Rakell, Rust, and Jake are in their prime still. Pettersson is just entering his prime. POJ and smith will be entering their primes in a few years, Rutta is in his early 30s still. Poehling and Nylander are still young. I mean you’re complaining about being old then trade young players to replace them with much older and lesser players lol. Make it make sense.

Again Smith’s ceiling isn’t higher than POJ’s lol. Smith’s ceiling is hoping to be where POJ is now. They are both the same age. Most likely what happens is POJ is a good 2nd pair D and Smith is a solid 3rd pair D. I mean it was only POJ’s first season. He should get better as he enters his prime.

Gudas for sure isn’t an improvement. It’s rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. He’s playing good this playoffs…whoopty do. Rutta played well with TB in the playoffs lol. That means nothing if he comes to Pittsburgh playing in Sully’s system which doesn’t call for that type of play. And whether you believe it’s time to change the system is irrelevant. Sully never will. So keep dreaming. Also I’ve never said I was against signing Bertuzzi. But as a whole the forward core sucks just as bad, if not worse than last year. If Bertuzzi is replacing Zucker, great. If he’s replacing a 40 goal scoring Guentzel AND Zucker …not so great.

Right vegas is doing that in the playoffs. You think that would hold up the whole regular season? And Florida only got in cause the pens crapped the bed. There are plenty of better options in free agency than the oft-injured Murray and the very inconsistent Korpisalo. You’re better off re-signing Jarry and bringing in a Freddy Andersen than this tandem.

The pens can restock their prospect pool by keeping their 1sts and signing college free agents and allowing for more opportunity in the AHL for drafted and signed players rather than filling up with guys like Caggiula, Ouellet, and other journeyman AHL players to play the significant roles. Maybe guys like Hallander wouldn’t sign 5 year deals in Sweden to take him to UFA or Lindberg wouldn’t sign a deal in Finland.


Forward core as a whole is much younger here than last year. It's tough to get younger when everyone in free agency is 27+.

Guess we agree to disagree on POJ and Smith. I think Smith has way way more offensive potential. We shall see.

Gudas plays a role, which is bringing physicality to the team. He plays a playoff style game. We need to diversify the lineup. Too many of the same types of players. What does Rutta bring that others on the D don't. Maybe he's not significantly better than Rutta, but I would argue he is an improvement and brings something different to the table. I wouldn't say talk of changing the system is irrelevant. What if new GM wants Sully to change it? What if it continues being a problem into next year? At some point it's gotta give if it's not working.

I do think that goaltending would hold up in regular season, because it did for Vegas.

Agree on the college free agents part, you are 100% correct there.
28 mai 2023 à 21 h 19
#15
rktkt66
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You get a gold star for not pitching another Petry-to-Buffalo proposal as part of "fixing the D" like so many other Penguin fans seem to think makes sense - thank you for abstaining from that lunacyhalo
28 mai 2023 à 23 h 47
#16
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Quoting: pensfan21
Forward core as a whole is much younger here than last year. It's tough to get younger when everyone in free agency is 27+.

Guess we agree to disagree on POJ and Smith. I think Smith has way way more offensive potential. We shall see.

Gudas plays a role, which is bringing physicality to the team. He plays a playoff style game. We need to diversify the lineup. Too many of the same types of players. What does Rutta bring that others on the D don't. Maybe he's not significantly better than Rutta, but I would argue he is an improvement and brings something different to the table. I wouldn't say talk of changing the system is irrelevant. What if new GM wants Sully to change it? What if it continues being a problem into next year? At some point it's gotta give if it's not working.

I do think that goaltending would hold up in regular season, because it did for Vegas.

Agree on the college free agents part, you are 100% correct there.


Forward core as a whole isn’t much younger than last year. If we take this one compared to what the pens ended with last year it’s a 1 year age difference on average. And i was being nice to not use Nylander over Heinen which would have made it closer. If you take the start of last year vs the start of this one, last years actually might be younger due to the fact of having Blueger, Kapanen, and McGinn instead of Heinen, Bonino, and Granlund. Younger doesn’t mean better. I’m all for getting younger but don’t get 4th liners and put them on the 1st line and say it’s better because he is younger lol.

Playing a playoff style game is great, but means nothing if we don’t get there. And again, Rutta performed well in the playoffs for TB. He was Hedman’s d partner.
If the GM is Dubas, you can rest assured that he will not make sully change his system.
29 mai 2023 à 8 h 39
#17
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Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
Forward core as a whole isn’t much younger than last year. If we take this one compared to what the pens ended with last year it’s a 1 year age difference on average. And i was being nice to not use Nylander over Heinen which would have made it closer. If you take the start of last year vs the start of this one, last years actually might be younger due to the fact of having Blueger, Kapanen, and McGinn instead of Heinen, Bonino, and Granlund. Younger doesn’t mean better. I’m all for getting younger but don’t get 4th liners and put them on the 1st line and say it’s better because he is younger lol.

Playing a playoff style game is great, but means nothing if we don’t get there. And again, Rutta performed well in the playoffs for TB. He was Hedman’s d partner.
If the GM is Dubas, you can rest assured that he will not make sully change his system.


What makes you say that about Dubas? Reality is none of us know. We can all speculate what he'd do, but no one knows for sure. He will have 100% full power, moreso than the coach, which has been reported by multiple sources. I will trust what he does, he knows way way more about hockey than I do. I'm sure he'll do some stuff that aligns with our visions, some stuff that dosen't, but no one knows for sure
29 mai 2023 à 10 h 22
#18
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Quoting: pensfan21
What makes you say that about Dubas? Reality is none of us know. We can all speculate what he'd do, but no one knows for sure. He will have 100% full power, moreso than the coach, which has been reported by multiple sources. I will trust what he does, he knows way way more about hockey than I do. I'm sure he'll do some stuff that aligns with our visions, some stuff that dosen't, but no one knows for sure


Because he likes his team to employ a similar system that Sully does lol. Did you not see the teams he built in Toronto? They were typically good skating speed teams that didn’t really have much physicality.
29 mai 2023 à 11 h 3
#19
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Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
Because he likes his team to employ a similar system that Sully does lol. Did you not see the teams he built in Toronto? They were typically good skating speed teams that didn’t really have much physicality.


They had the roster to deploy that system. We do not. That's the difference. He also got O'Reilly, Accari, and Schenn at deadline. They were a pretty balanced team with a mix of physicality and speed
30 mai 2023 à 9 h 15
#20
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You can afford Orlov's 5mil without giving up Guenztel. Seems like an unneeded trade if you're just trying to improve the defense.
 
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