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Vancouvers 11th pick

Créé par: KentMcNally
Équipe: 2023-24 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 24 mai 2023
Publié: 24 mai 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Montreal takes one of the following at #11:
Reinbacher (unlikely to be available)
Leonard (unlikely to be available)
Sandin Pellkka (possible)
Wood (probably available)
Barlow (probably available)
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
77 875 000 $
32 750 000 $
21 500 000 $
21 250 000 $
Transactions
1.
MTL
  1. Boeser, Brock
  2. Myers, Tyler
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (VAN)
VAN
  1. Kidney, Riley
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (FLA)
2.
MTL
  1. Choix de 6e ronde en 2023 (ARI)
ARI
  1. Armia, Joel
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (MTL)
  3. Choix de 4e ronde en 2023 (VGK)
3.
MTL
  1. Choix de 7e ronde en 2025 (ANA)
ANA
  1. Hoffman, Mike
  2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2023 (PIT)
  3. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (COL)
4.
MTL
  1. Choix de 5e ronde en 2023 (EDM)
Rachats de contrats
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2023
Logo de MTL
Logo de VAN
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
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Logo de CGY
Logo de EDM
Logo de MTL
Logo de ARI
Logo de MTL
2024
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Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de SJS
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de EDM
2025
Logo de MTL
Logo de CGY
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de ANA
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2483 500 000 $77 209 166 $1 170 000 $4 752 500 $6 290 834 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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7 875 000 $7 875 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 8
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
7 875 000 $7 875 000 $
C
UFA - 7
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
950 000 $950 000 $ (Bonis de performance3 500 000 $$4M)
AD, AG
RFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
3 362 500 $3 362 500 $
C, AD
RFA - 3
Logo de Canucks de Vancouver
6 650 000 $6 650 000 $
AD
UFA - 2
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2 750 000 $2 750 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
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4 450 000 $4 450 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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6 500 000 $6 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
897 500 $897 500 $ (Bonis de performance557 500 $$558K)
AD, AG
RFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 700 000 $1 700 000 $
C
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 100 000 $1 100 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
AD, AG
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
4 875 000 $4 875 000 $
DG
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 925 000 $1 925 000 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance420 000 $$420K)
DG/DD
RFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance275 000 $$275K)
DD
RFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
G
UFA - 1
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1 400 000 $1 400 000 $
DG/DD
RFA - 2
Logo de Canucks de Vancouver
6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
762 500 $762 500 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
766 667 $766 667 $
DD
UFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
828 333 $828 333 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
10 500 000 $10 500 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 3

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24 mai 2023 à 8 h 3
#1
Habs4Ever
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MTL, a rebuilding team, aren't trading draft pick to get rid of player who will bring them assets at the TDL
This is total non-sense
And while we are at it, this a bottom 10 team
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24 mai 2023 à 8 h 3
#2
HuGo is a Boss GM
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Can you explain why Vancouver would be looking to dump 12M in cap space?
24 mai 2023 à 8 h 9
#3
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Fall River Habs
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Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
MTL, a rebuilding team, aren't trading draft pick to get rid of player who will bring them assets at the TDL
This is total non-sense
And while we are at it, this a bottom 10 team


Which player brings them assets at the deadline?
24 mai 2023 à 8 h 33
#4
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: KentMcNally
Which player brings them assets at the deadline?


Edmundson, Hoffman and maybe Armia if there is retention
24 mai 2023 à 8 h 34
#5
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Fall River Habs
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Quoting: jonh514
Can you explain why Vancouver would be looking to dump 12M in cap space?


I did this because I saw multiple trades on here where Myers and Boeser are traded away from Vancouver as apparent cap dumps.

One Canucks fan had Myers and the 11th pick to Montreal for Edmundson (1/2 retained), Dvorak and a 5th rounder going to Vancouver. I thought that my deal was even more enticing because it frees up more cap space for Vancouver. Maybe Vancouver wants to sign some free agents this year or make a trade for a high priced player like Panarin (not necessarily Panarin, but something like that).
24 mai 2023 à 8 h 37
#6
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Fall River Habs
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Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
Edmundson, Hoffman and maybe Armia if there is retention


But will any of those players being traded get close to the 11th pick in the draft this year?

I agree that the Habs are a lottery pick team again. I did not trade for Myers and Boeser to make Montreal better. I did so to get the draft pick from Vancouver.

I could see Boeser bouncing back to form in a new city and then Montreal trading him to a contender at the deadline for some good assets.
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24 mai 2023 à 8 h 47
#7
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We won't pay to move contracts, although I understand why you did here.

Hoffman @ 50% brings at least a mid rounder, same for Eddy. Armia might bring back a similar return next year, with 50% retention as well, as a relatively cheap bottom 6 player with size. Trading additional assets just to move a couple contracts we'll be out from under in a couple years doesn't really make sense.
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24 mai 2023 à 9 h 4
#8
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Fall River Habs
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Quoting: Just_A_Guess
We won't pay to move contracts, although I understand why you did here.

Hoffman 50% brings at least a mid rounder, same for Eddy. Armia might bring back a similar return next year, with 50% retention as well, as a relatively cheap bottom 6 player with size. Trading additional assets just to move a couple contracts we'll be out from under in a couple years doesn't really make sense.


I could see keeping one of the contracts and not making the trades, as you suggested. But in my scenario Montreal only has $4,365,000.00 left in the cap, so they have to get rid of some contract(s) to get that 11th from Vancouver, which I view as extremely valuable in the rebuild.

Just as an aside, I even question whether Montreal makes any more trades for multiple mid-round picks unless they package them for a singular higher pick. I was reminded about the "50 contract limit per team" when I read an article the other day about this. If Montreal acquires too many mid round picks the they will not be able to sign them all (as they can only have 50 in total), so there is a risk to acquiring too many mid-round picks that will take a while to evaluate and possibly never sign, because they don't work out. As a few people have said on this site, quality over quantity. Thoughts?
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24 mai 2023 à 9 h 7
#9
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: KentMcNally
But will any of those players being traded get close to the 11th pick in the draft this year?

I agree that the Habs are a lottery pick team again. I did not trade for Myers and Boeser to make Montreal better. I did so to get the draft pick from Vancouver.

I could see Boeser bouncing back to form in a new city and then Montreal trading him to a contender at the deadline for some good assets.


But you aren't getting the 11th from Vancouver tho ... that's just unrealistic
Vancouver just lost the trade : 9th OA + 47th + 3 cap dumps (Roussel, Beagle, Eriksson) vs OEL (12% retained) + Garland
They won't do the same mistake again 2 years later ...
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24 mai 2023 à 9 h 9
#10
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: KentMcNally
I could see keeping one of the contracts and not making the trades, as you suggested. But in my scenario Montreal only has $4,365,000.00 left in the cap, so they have to get rid of some contract(s) to get that 11th from Vancouver, which I view as extremely valuable in the rebuild.

Just as an aside, I even question whether Montreal makes any more trades for multiple mid-round picks unless they package them for a singular higher pick. I was reminded about the "50 contract limit per team" when I read an article the other day about this. If Montreal acquires too many mid round picks the they will not be able to sign them all (as they can only have 50 in total), so there is a risk to acquiring too many mid-round picks that will take a while to evaluate and possibly never sign, because they don't work out. As a few people have said on this site, quality over quantity. Thoughts?


MTL are pushing mid round pick every draft for the next year
They do it every year
24 mai 2023 à 9 h 16
#11
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Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
But you aren't getting the 11th from Vancouver tho ... that's just unrealistic
Vancouver just lost the trade : 9th OA + 47th + 3 cap dumps (Roussel, Beagle, Eriksson) vs OEL (12% retained) + Garland
They won't do the same mistake again 2 years later ...


To be honest, I would be surprised if Vancouver traded a high pick too. I was proposing this trade because a number of people (some Canucks fans too) had Vancouver trading that pick in order to get rid of either Boeser or Myers as part of that package. I included Kidney to sweeten the deal.

Making a cap dump trade in Vancouver's situation did not make much sense to me, but if that was Vancouver's thought process (I realize that these posts are from fans and not the management team) I think Montreal should jump at the opportunity.
24 mai 2023 à 9 h 19
#12
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Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
MTL are pushing mid round pick every draft for the next year
They do it every year


I may not have been clear (or maybe I was and you did understand me). I was talking about Montreal acquiring picks in the 3rd to 5th rounds of the draft (not mid-first round picks).

I was questioning whether we need many more of the picks in the third to fifth rounds, given the quantity of prospects we already have and that 50 contract limit.
24 mai 2023 à 9 h 38
#13
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: KentMcNally
I may not have been clear (or maybe I was and you did understand me). I was talking about Montreal acquiring picks in the 3rd to 5th rounds of the draft (not mid-first round picks).

I was questioning whether we need many more of the picks in the third to fifth rounds, given the quantity of prospects we already have and that 50 contract limit.


What I am saying it's since 2019 for exemple, Bergevin traded :
MTL 2019 4th vs SJ 2020 4th
CHI 2019 5th vs FLO 2020 5th
the draft after
SJ 2020 4th vs WSH 2021 3rd
the draft after
CHI 2021 3rd vs ANA 2022 3rd
VGK 2021 4th vs TBL 2022 4th
the draft after
TBL 2022 4th vs VGK 2023 4th

MTL don't use all their mid round picks, after that they could use those extra picks to make moves like Kent Hughes did
Romanov + 98th vs 13th OA
13th + 66th OA vs Kirby Dach
In 2021, Bergevin used a 2021 3rd + 2021 5th to acquire Eric Staal
In 2020, Bergevin used a 2020 3rd + Max Domi to acquire Josh Anderson
In 2020 again, MTL used another 2020 3rd round pick to acquire Jake Allen
Having a lot of picks is not bad, you never have too many picks
And MTL like trading down as well, I got a good exemple for you

Remember when MTL acquired Marco Scandella vs a 2020 4th (became Daniil Chechelev)
Then MTL flip Scandella half retained to STL for a 2020 2nd round pick (became Jack Finley) + 2021 4th (became William Trudeau)
At the 2020 draft, MTL traded that 2nd round pick from STL (became Jack Finley) to TBL for their 2020 4th (became Sean Farrell) + their 2021 2nd (became Oliver Kapanen)

So MTL traded a 2020 4th (Daniil Chechelev) for 2 months of Scandella vs Oliver Kapanen, Sean Farrell and William Trudeau

At the end of the day, you never have enough draft picks
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24 mai 2023 à 10 h 1
#14
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Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
What I am saying it's since 2019 for exemple, Bergevin traded :
MTL 2019 4th vs SJ 2020 4th
CHI 2019 5th vs FLO 2020 5th
the draft after
SJ 2020 4th vs WSH 2021 3rd
the draft after
CHI 2021 3rd vs ANA 2022 3rd
VGK 2021 4th vs TBL 2022 4th
the draft after
TBL 2022 4th vs VGK 2023 4th

MTL don't use all their mid round picks, after that they could use those extra picks to make moves like Kent Hughes did
Romanov + 98th vs 13th OA
13th + 66th OA vs Kirby Dach
In 2021, Bergevin used a 2021 3rd + 2021 5th to acquire Eric Staal
In 2020, Bergevin used a 2020 3rd + Max Domi to acquire Josh Anderson
In 2020 again, MTL used another 2020 3rd round pick to acquire Jake Allen
Having a lot of picks is not bad, you never have too many picks
And MTL like trading down as well, I got a good exemple for you

Remember when MTL acquired Marco Scandella vs a 2020 4th (became Daniil Chechelev)
Then MTL flip Scandella half retained to STL for a 2020 2nd round pick (became Jack Finley) + 2021 4th (became William Trudeau)
At the 2020 draft, MTL traded that 2nd round pick from STL (became Jack Finley) to TBL for their 2020 4th (became Sean Farrell) + their 2021 2nd (became Oliver Kapanen)

So MTL traded a 2020 4th (Daniil Chechelev) for 2 months of Scandella vs Oliver Kapanen, Sean Farrell and William Trudeau

At the end of the day, you never have enough draft picks


I am impressed with the trade tree/draft tree. I agree that they got some good players through the process you outlined. I just think they need to start trading for higher picks that will produce more quality (easier said than done).

I see things potentially lining up this way in the near future and for several years:
Line 1: Caufield + Suzuki + Slafkovsky
Line 2: #5 pick + Dach + Dubois as free agent (??)
Line 3: RHP + Beck + Roy/Farrell/Mesar
Line 4: Ylonen + Evans + Roy/Farrell/Mesar/Pezzetta

D1: Guhle + Hutson
D2: #11 pick (Sandin Pellikka) + Mailloux ???
D3: Harris + Xhekaj
7th D: Kovacevic or Engstrom

Goalie: Montembeault (???)/ Dobes (?)/ Primeau (?)

I think they have depth (players not mentioned include Kapanen, Tuch, Trudeau, Norlinder (?), Guindon, Rohrer etc). They need to fill in the upper echelon gaps.

Just a thought.
24 mai 2023 à 10 h 13
#15
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Quoting: KentMcNally
I could see keeping one of the contracts and not making the trades, as you suggested. But in my scenario Montreal only has $4,365,000.00 left in the cap, so they have to get rid of some contract(s) to get that 11th from Vancouver, which I view as extremely valuable in the rebuild.

Just as an aside, I even question whether Montreal makes any more trades for multiple mid-round picks unless they package them for a singular higher pick. I was reminded about the "50 contract limit per team" when I read an article the other day about this. If Montreal acquires too many mid round picks the they will not be able to sign them all (as they can only have 50 in total), so there is a risk to acquiring too many mid-round picks that will take a while to evaluate and possibly never sign, because they don't work out. As a few people have said on this site, quality over quantity. Thoughts?


With the contract limit issue you've brought up I'd be trying to attach a 3rd or a 4th to these guys @ 50% (or a mid prospect as well) to improve draft position then. But I wouldn't be paying to move them still. We don't have to sign our draft choices right away but we do have a lot of contracts.

So I guess in all honesty I'd be making a package deal around those guys @ 50%, mid round pick(s), and prospects not overly attached to the future of MTL and improve draft positions.

Example: Hoffman 50%, one of our 4ths, a player or two from the reserve list OR a Mysak/Ylonen type for an early 3rd/late 2nd or 2nd a year or two away. Something along those lines is how I'd personally be trying to swing it. I'm aware they don't carry a lot of value (Hoff & Eddy/Armia) but in a mini package like this to the right team I think it's plausible.

I like the idea of going after 11OA in that trade I just really don't like paying assets to move contracts with the current state and direction of the team.
24 mai 2023 à 10 h 13
#16
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Myers has 1 year left on his contract and is only owned 1 mil in actual salary. Boeser just put up more points than everybody on the Habs except Nick Suzuki, and this was considered a bad year for Boeser. He is NOT a cap dump…. Canuck’s have a shallow prospect pool. They are not trading the 11th overall for the 30th overall
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24 mai 2023 à 10 h 45
#17
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: KentMcNally
I am impressed with the trade tree/draft tree. I agree that they got some good players through the process you outlined. I just think they need to start trading for higher picks that will produce more quality (easier said than done).

I see things potentially lining up this way in the near future and for several years:
Line 1: Caufield + Suzuki + Slafkovsky
Line 2: #5 pick + Dach + Dubois as free agent (??)
Line 3: RHP + Beck + Roy/Farrell/Mesar
Line 4: Ylonen + Evans + Roy/Farrell/Mesar/Pezzetta

D1: Guhle + Hutson
D2: #11 pick (Sandin Pellikka) + Mailloux ???
D3: Harris + Xhekaj
7th D: Kovacevic or Engstrom

Goalie: Montembeault (???)/ Dobes (?)/ Primeau (?)

I think they have depth (players not mentioned include Kapanen, Tuch, Trudeau, Norlinder (?), Guindon, Rohrer etc). They need to fill in the upper echelon gaps.

Just a thought.


Caufield Suzuki Slafkovsky Dach are your only top 6 players right now
PLD would be nice as a free agent, but it's not sure
#5 pick should be another top 6 forward
For the bottom six, we are too far to think about it
Sure, Owen Beck looks like the prime candidate to play that 3C role going forward
After you got a good mix of middle six / bottom six players, like RHP, Mesar, Roy, Farrell & Heineman

On the back end, you have 4 solid NHLers in Guhle Harris Barron & Xhekaj
Hutson IMO will be a NHLer and the best one above the others mention, but again, nothing sure
Struble & Trudeau were solid in the AHL, maybe one of these two ends up a #6 or 7th dman

Engstrom is another good prospect, but he needs time

We are short on RHD, I do agree, I don't think this is the right draft to pick a RHD with one of our 1st round pick

Leave that pick for 2024, where there will be more RHD. If we have a top 10 pick in 2024, we likely select a RHD

Goalies are voodoos, you never know, pretty sure MTL select a goalie with either the FLO pick or the 37th OA
24 mai 2023 à 11 h 12
#18
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Canucks decline. Pick 11 is not being moved to dump anyone under any circumstances.
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24 mai 2023 à 11 h 28
#19
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Myers' cap hit is not the burden you think it is. As Canucks stalwart @Juiceman points out, once Myers' $5 million signing bonus is paid in the summer, he becomes an attractive roster-filling veteran #3RhD for only $1 million. It's likely that a team such as Anaheim, Arizona or Chicago would take him on for a third or a fourth from Vancouver in return for a later pick. Moreover, since this transaction could only occur in the summer, i.e., after the 2023 draft, we're talking about an exchange of 2024 picks (say, Vancouver's 2024 third for Anaheim's 2024 sixth).
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24 mai 2023 à 15 h 43
#20
Suczuking Kotkaniemi
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Quoting: jonh514
Can you explain why Vancouver would be looking to dump 12M in cap space?


They are already over the cap for next season so they need to dump salary to resign players/improve their current team.
24 mai 2023 à 18 h 28
#21
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Quoting: Nick_SUCCzuki
They are already over the cap for next season so they need to dump salary to resign players/improve their current team.

They are not. Poolman and Pearson to LTIr immediately frees up 5.75 mil. They can ice a 23 man roster without making any trades
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