If we retain 50% and it comes with an extension would you do Guentzel for two 1sts straight up? I know I might be getting greedy here. I dont hate the current trade as is

Robertson had the most depressing 1st birthday...

I don't know if Guentzel would be interested in playing in Toronto (let alone Canada) long term. He might be fine with going to Toronto as a rental if Pittsburgh plans to rebuild, but I'm unsure if he would want to stay long term. I don't think the Leafs would want to give up a second first round pick, but who knows. It could be like the Brandon Hagel trade.

2 1sts from Tor? I think he can fetch more without retention. He is worth a 1st and an A prospect. This trade above is pretty good. Better than two low 1sts.

So much is up in the air with both franchises right now I think anything could happen. Definitely is interesting

Pass, if they deal Jake they need NHL player(s) in return, not prospects. FSG made it pretty clear they're not rebuilding yet.

Why would Pitt even consider trading Guentzel. You need to go all in on the next two yrs and then tear it down. Draft picks don't help right now.

Why do we need to go all in? An argument can be made for both sides, but our days of contending are probably done. Better to rebuild and trade players while they still have value then try and cling to contending like Chicago did and cripple the rebuild. Our roster cannot be fixed in one offseason to make us a cup contender. It just can't

Silly for the Leafs or any team to give up so much for a one year rental. So what does one year of 7m Nylander get......2 firsts and 2 seconds?

Yes. Without a doubt

You have a totally good team. With Crosby, Malkin and Letang not getting any younger. A couple nice adds and a healthy and competent goalie and your right in the mix.

Rebuilding while Crosby is still putting up 90+ points would just be silly. Run it back.

Rebuild a yr or two from now if it's obviously not happening.

Is that greedy? Dude is a P/G player and one of the better goal scorers in the league. Don't think you'd have much trouble getting that if he's on a reasonable extension.

Exactly. A ton of pens fans can't understand this. Their top 6 is just as good as any, but they have an awful bottom 6. Revamp that group and bring in a new goalie and they are right back in it.

Chicago missed playoffs when Kane was on pace for 97 points. They still went all in and traded for Seth Jones and Fleury. Traded away their 1sts. Ended up falling out even further out of the playoffs the next year even though Kane put up over 90 points and their core played well. Completely crippled their rebuild and future. Pens team is even more flawed than that. Besides for the first and second line plus Letang and Petterson the entire roster is flawed. We have multiple, immovable, terrible contracts. There's no fixing this in one summer. We can't make the same mistake Chicago did.

Because he is due for a new contract next summer and it probably isn't smart to give another 30+ player a massive contract. One that would probably be 8 x 8.

So what? Trading Jake away for assets that will have no impact on the remaining Crosby years is a waste.

Trading away first round picks to not make playoffs or lose in the first round would also be a waste. Or not trading Jake and losing him for nothing, that would also be a waste. It can go both ways. Just comes down to whether you think they can become true contender next 1-2 years. I dont, thus why I think we should trade him

This Pens team is waaay better than that Chicago team. That Chicago team had Kane, DeBrincat and then it was like Kubalik. Not even comparable. This team is totally fine. They have a good top 6 and decent enough d. If you had a healthy Jarry on top of his game youd have been just fine.

Once you traded for Petry and signed Malkin and Letang it was a signal this team is gonna keep going for it. As they should.

If in a yr things get really bad then rebuild. Trade who you can.

Trading top players like Guenzel for picks when you have Crosby and Malkin still hugely productive is just silly.

Is it that much better? They had Kane, Towes, Kubalik, Debrincat, Dach, Strome, Hagel, Jones, Mccabe. That is not a bad team on paper. We have good players too, but we also have Petry, Granlund, Rutta, Carter, and other immovable contracts. Our D isn't decent. Not even close. it was awful all of last season. Absolutely atrocious. Couldn't keep a lead and the D zone coverage was some of the worst in the league. The only good players were Letang and Petterson. Bottom 6 was one of worst in league. And Jarry hasn't proven anything in big games. He's fine when the stakes are low, but has been very bad in big moments. What has he done to prove he deserves a long term deal? Even if we wanted to go all in we dont have the assets or flexibility with the roster to do that.

Toews was terrible, Dach was an underperforming rookie, Kubalik is a shooter, on and on none of those Chicago players were as good as what the Pens have. Not even close.

The Granlund trade was a disaster but that doesn't change much. Petry can do better. I think he is still a top 4 dman with Letang and Pettersson so you're not far off.

Im not saying give Jarry a long term deal just that had he been healthy the team would easily have been in the playoffs. Easily. But you will need to find a new goalie. Jarry could be the guy but he seems to be too injury prone to rely on.

Even if you got rid of Guentzel because this team has Crosby and the others they'd still be competing for a playoff spot so the only way it really makes sense is if you then trade Crosby, Malkin, and anyone else of value too. Which makes no sense right now.

We just missed the playoffs and had one of the worst records in the league from Christmas onwards. They were top heavy but had one of the worst bottom 6's and bottom 4 D in the NHL. Rust showed signs of decline. Zucker played awesome, but it was the first year out of 4 that he lived up to his contract, and Guentzel, while he played well, I am concerned about due to how much he's gotten beaten up. His value will probably never be higher than what it is now. Instead of losing him for nothing it is smart to trade him. The roster desperately needs to get younger, faster, more physical, and grittier. It's not easy to transform a roster like that in one offseason with a roster filled with NMC and immovable contracts. Yeah maybe we can fix it to make playoffs, but look at when we played Jersey this year. And how far the gap was. We are not close to them. We've had an unreal last 16 years, need to accept that we can't be good forever and will have to tear it down eventually. All these fast, young teams smoked us this year. And teams like Detroit, Buffalo, Ottawa will probably be in playoffs next year. Look at all the teams with older core's that are successful. They're surrounded by youth. We have none and have the worst prospect pool in the NHL. This team is so so flawed its not a matter of just fixing a few things. Destroying our entire future for at best getting knocked out in 2nd or 3rd round (if we play our cards perfectly) is not worth it to be. Dont get me wrong, I get where your coming from, it's a complicated situation. I just dont think there's an obvious path we should go, everything should be on the table after 4 straight first round exits and missing playoffs

How is it destroying the teams entire future to try to support Crosby with the best players you can next yr? I wouldn't let Guentzel walk for free either. But I wouldn't trade him for picks if he is going either. I hear you on the team being old but again are you going to trade Crosby, Malkin, Pettersson and every other moveable contract after you move Guentzel for picks? because those picks wont be players while Cros and co are still on top of their games.

It depends. I dont think you can trade Crosby Malkin and Letang unless they want to. If I were GM I'd sit down with them and say want you guys to stay but were gonna rebuild and will accommodate what they want as far as their futures. The reality is we will not be contending for their entire contracts. Malkin is on the books for 3 more years, Letang 5. At some point during that we will have to rebuild and this question will have to be asked eventually about their futures. I dont think anyone expected it to be so soon, but I also dont think anyone expected them to not make playoffs this year. I think if we had a smart offseason last year we could've extended the window. But with all the bad moves and contracts it was slammed shut. I wish we could do what the Stars or Boston did with their older core's, but we just have 0 prospects that will make a big impact. I think it's possible to win with an older core if you carefully craft the roster around them, but our old GM destroyed it to the point where it's not even possible. I dont know how we'd get youth around them? Free agency all players are over 27 basically. Maybe offer sheeting but that's a shot in the dark. If I thought we had a legit chance to reshape this roster into a contender I'd be all for it. And I'm trying to convince myself we can. I just dont see it and can't help that

That joke of an offer doesn't get Jake Guentzel.

And Pius Suter at that joke of an offer, You're at least $2,000,000 short if not slightly more. He'd stay in Detroit for that low ball offer. he'd already be re-signed by now it that's all it took to resign him.

Nylander does have great advanced stats but they are very similar to Guentzel. The only real difference is Guentzel's play has an expected goals of 39 and Nylander's is 32. There is some error in there but it indicates Guentzel was a little unlucky and Nylander was a little lucky.

Still, very similar players. And as I said, Guentzel is worth a 1st and an A prospect. Nylander is worth the same. Now if either comes with an extension, the price increases by another B+ prospect (minimum).

The trade above is a low 1st, low 3rd, low 4th and two young players. It is close to what Guentzel (or Nylander) is worth. I would say the trade should include a low 2nd or another B prospect or take a cap dump in the form of Rutta.