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Imagine if we hired Carbery and not TR

Créé par: Capitalfail67
Équipe: 2022-23 Capitals de Washington
Date de création initiale: 23 mars 2023
Publié: 23 mars 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
something like this
Transactions
1.
WSH
  1. Vrána, Jakub
Détails additionnels:
we never move him and he gets better opportunity
2.
VGK
    5th round pick AKA Raffl
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    SEA
      Boltmann and Robins?
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        Djoo
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        WSH
        1. Orlov, Dmitry
        Détails additionnels:
        playoff team dont trade him
        BOS
        Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
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        23 mars 2023 à 16 h 45
        #1
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        1st, there's not guarantee that Carberry would've gave all if any of these guys the time they "deserved" in Washington -- Sprong and Stephenson especially are some of my least favorites of these, they were ok 4th liners while here. 2nd, if this team misses Backstrom + Wilson for 2/3rds of the season and Carlson for the other 3rd they're also missing the playoffs lol. The only guy that is definitively better than who they replaced is Bura over Mantha, although that is probably a wash with a full season of Milano vs. 15 games with Vrana
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        23 mars 2023 à 16 h 49
        #2
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        Quoting: qc14
        1st, there's not guarantee that Carberry would've gave all if any of these guys the time they "deserved" in Washington -- Sprong and Stephenson especially are some of my least favorites of these, they were ok 4th liners while here. 2nd, if this team misses Backstrom + Wilson for 2/3rds of the season and Carlson for the other 3rd they're also missing the playoffs lol. The only guy that is definitively better than who they replaced is Bura over Mantha, although that is probably a wash with a full season of Milano vs. 15 games with Vrana


        Stephenson played under Carberry in Hershey. He would have absolutely been given an opportunity Probably at wing instead of Panik. Sprong had incredible numbers but was completely underutilized. Hes what the Capitals were hoping to get in Mantha. Capitals were in a playoff spot before we got those guys back? lol
        23 mars 2023 à 16 h 51
        #3
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        Quoting: qc14
        1st, there's not guarantee that Carberry would've gave all if any of these guys the time they "deserved" in Washington -- Sprong and Stephenson especially are some of my least favorites of these, they were ok 4th liners while here. 2nd, if this team misses Backstrom + Wilson for 2/3rds of the season and Carlson for the other 3rd they're also missing the playoffs lol. The only guy that is definitively better than who they replaced is Bura over Mantha, although that is probably a wash with a full season of Milano vs. 15 games with Vrana


        Totally agree with everything above, especially with the assessment about Backy / WIlson / Carlson missing time.

        And in terms of goaltending - the Caps HAD TO move on from VV and Sammy. 2 seasons of sub-par goaltending that directly impacted (negatively obviously) the team.
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        23 mars 2023 à 16 h 55
        #4
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        Quoting: Capitalfail67
        Stephenson played under Carberry in Hershey. He would have absolutely been given an opportunity Probably at wing instead of Panik. Sprong had incredible numbers but was completely underutilized. Hes what the Capitals were hoping to get in Mantha. Capitals were in a playoff spot before we got those guys back? lol


        Sorry - but you cannot say "absolutely would have gotten time". Plus, you don't know if Stephenson would have evolved into the player he is today, especially since he probably would not have gotten top 6 time with the Caps (outside of injuries).

        Sprong was HORRIBLE defensively for the Caps. Yes, he had good offensive numbers, but he was a liability on the defensive front - no denying that.
        23 mars 2023 à 16 h 58
        #5
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        Quoting: All_Knowing
        Totally agree with everything above, especially with the assessment about Backy / WIlson / Carlson missing time.

        And in terms of goaltending - the Caps HAD TO move on from VV and Sammy. 2 seasons of sub-par goaltending that directly impacted (negatively obviously) the team.


        Sammy had a .903s% over his 3 years and his final year he was a .912s% in the playoffs. VV was a .908s%. DK was a solid add but you can clearly see Samsonov when playing infront of a better team defensively is thriving
        23 mars 2023 à 17 h 0
        #6
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        Quoting: All_Knowing
        Sorry - but you cannot say "absolutely would have gotten time". Plus, you don't know if Stephenson would have evolved into the player he is today, especially since he probably would not have gotten top 6 time with the Caps (outside of injuries).

        Sprong was HORRIBLE defensively for the Caps. Yes, he had good offensive numbers, but he was a liability on the defensive front - no denying that.


        50.84cf% 52.56ff% 52.32xgf% !!!! that is terrible to you? lol
        23 mars 2023 à 17 h 29
        #7
        Future Norris guy
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        LOL if you never moved Vrana, then Mantha would be heading to Detroit and not St Louis.
        23 mars 2023 à 17 h 48
        #8
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        Quoting: Capitalfail67
        Stephenson played under Carberry in Hershey. He would have absolutely been given an opportunity Probably at wing instead of Panik. Sprong had incredible numbers but was completely underutilized. Hes what the Capitals were hoping to get in Mantha. Capitals were in a playoff spot before we got those guys back? lol


        I'm sorry but the Stephenson discourse really drives me ****ing insane. He had 5(!!!!!!) points in 25 games when he was shipped to Vegas. Trust me Panik was bad but he was completely outplaying Stephenson that year. Obviously he's gotten better in Vegas but that's also because they literally had no one to play center that year and he got stapled to Stone and Pacioretty, two of the best wings in the game at the time.
        Do you really think he should've gotten minutes at 1 or 2c ahead of Backstrom and Kuzy????

        Sprong is actually playing less minutes this year in SEA than his last year in WSH. He has 37 points because he has a ridiculously unsustainable 15% on-ice shooting percentage (a great thread on it here, league average is 8% even for the very best offensive players https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1589331227651485696?s=20). People forget that he also started the year penciled in on the second line, and wasn't scoring while giving up quite a lot the other way.

        Whenever things go poorly for players, especially young ones or scorers or guys who aren't that physical, fans love blaming coaches and utilization and never stop to think that maybe the player is actually not doing the things needed to gain the trust of a coach or beat out a guy ahead of them on the roster. It's driven me insane this year with how people talk about McMichael and Mantha. McMichael was given the first crack at 2c over Strome in camp, lost it. Given a shot at 2lw in camp, lost it. Given a shot at 4lw, lost it (to another young guy in Protas btw). Mantha is currently on a stretch of 3 points in 21 games, with those 3 only coming in 2 different ones. He's responded to being scratched multiple times this year by ... playing the exact same way he has the entire year.

        Lav (and Rierden before him and Trotz before him and Oates before him and Hunter before him and so on) have done plenty of things I disagree with but the way people talk about some players who have left and had success outside of WSH is absolutely insane
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        23 mars 2023 à 17 h 48
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        Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
        LOL if you never moved Vrana, then Mantha would be heading to Detroit and not St Louis.


        Vrana is on the blues.... i wasnt recreating the trade just bringing the players back. lol seemed pretty obvious but i guess not ACTUALLY if you wanna dive deeper. Capitals 1st round pick was Wyatt Johnston that year
        23 mars 2023 à 18 h 15
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        Quoting: qc14
        I'm sorry but the Stephenson discourse really drives me ****ing insane. He had 5(!!!!!!) points in 25 games when he was shipped to Vegas. Trust me Panik was bad but he was completely outplaying Stephenson that year. Obviously he's gotten better in Vegas but that's also because they literally had no one to play center that year and he got stapled to Stone and Pacioretty, two of the best wings in the game at the time.
        Do you really think he should've gotten minutes at 1 or 2c ahead of Backstrom and Kuzy????

        Sprong is actually playing less minutes this year in SEA than his last year in WSH. He has 37 points because he has a ridiculously unsustainable 15% on-ice shooting percentage (a great thread on it here, league average is 8% even for the very best offensive players https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1589331227651485696?s=20). People forget that he also started the year penciled in on the second line, and wasn't scoring while giving up quite a lot the other way.



        Whenever things go poorly for players, especially young ones or scorers or guys who aren't that physical, fans love blaming coaches and utilization and never stop to think that maybe the player is actually not doing the things needed to gain the trust of a coach or beat out a guy ahead of them on the roster. It's driven me insane this year with how people talk about McMichael and Mantha. McMichael was given the first crack at 2c over Strome in camp, lost it. Given a shot at 2lw in camp, lost it. Given a shot at 4lw, lost it (to another young guy in Protas btw). Mantha is currently on a stretch of 3 points in 21 games, with those 3 only coming in 2 different ones. He's responded to being scratched multiple times this year by ... playing the exact same way he has the entire year.

        Lav (and Rierden before him and Trotz before him and Oates before him and Hunter before him and so on) have done plenty of things I disagree with but the way people talk about some players who have left and had success outside of WSH is absolutely insane


        im going to breakdown your thoughts 1 by 1.

        1) Stephenson played roughly 12m/gp on a high end. averaged anywhere between .9-1.4p/60. Much like Wilson he would have benefitted from more ice time. EVEN IF he was just a 3rd line winger it would have kept us from having to use a 1st (Wyatt Johnston) to dump Panik

        2) Sprong is another guy that can be a middle 6 / 3rd line guy. reliable in both end and can put the puck in the net.

        3)McM was playing 8minutes this year? was he really given an opportunity? Capitals after having him up all last year and he had solid numbers decided that they were going to keep Eller rather than go with the younger better option. Eller had a bad year and McM wasted a year of development. Protas imo deserves everything he has atm but even he isnt getting deployed the way he should. 4th line winger? hes better than that. Seigenthaler ? how bout that one? Chara over him? huh? yeah that was so ***** OBVIOUS he was going to be a stud.

        THING THAT DRIVES ME NUTS.... people who refuse to look at the bigger issue and just chalk it up to dumb luck. "huh yeah i guess they are doing better with the new team" YEAH NO SHAT!!! THEY WERE GOOD PLAYERS lol. EVEN Schmidt got benched for MIKE WEBER !!! remember that? look at the talent we let go

        Vrana
        Stephenson
        Bura
        Samsonov
        Vanecek
        Copley
        Seigenthaler
        Sprong

        who we brought in
        Sheary
        Mantha
        Panik
        Raffl
        Hathaway (great add)
        Hags (extended)
        Larsson
        Dillion
        Kovi
        DK (great add)
        Chuck (fucale was such a better idea)

        only players that arent considered "really good" Sprong and Copley that we let go
        23 mars 2023 à 18 h 56
        #11
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        Quoting: Capitalfail67
        THING THAT DRIVES ME NUTS.... people who refuse to look at the bigger issue and just chalk it up to dumb luck. "huh yeah i guess they are doing better with the new team" YEAH NO SHAT!!! THEY WERE GOOD PLAYERS lol. EVEN Schmidt got benched for MIKE WEBER !!! remember that? look at the talent we let go



        who we let go
        Vrana -- 3 goals and 8 points in 35 playoff games, I am glad that he has gotten treatment but has also played 40 games since the trade
        Stephenson -- find ONE take from when he was traded of anyone who thought he could be more than a pretty good 4th liner
        Bura -- 25 points in 75 games his last year in WSH, stuck behind Ovi, Wilson, Oshie, Vrana, Connolly on the depth chart, requested a trade
        Samsonov -- repeatedly proved he wasn't mature/consistent enough to be the starter, glad he has found his game in TOR (which by all advanced metrics is a very similar defensive environment to WSH)
        Vanecek -- see above, has been completely average in NJ this year
        Copley -- despite winning a bunch of games this year has been quite bad in the NHL, an AHL starter at best
        Seigenthaler -- big mistake, shouldn't have brought in Chara, everyone at the time knew it was a mistake
        Sprong -- even to good play-driving 4th liner who creates a lot of offense but also giving a ton of it up, incredibly streaky scorer from year to year who had one good season in DC then one bad one

        who we brought in
        Sheary -- great value
        Mantha -- has been bad
        Panik -- was ok for a year then bad, gave too much money
        Raffl -- meh, only gave up a 5th and played 4 playoff games
        Hathaway -- one of the bet 4th liners in the league
        Hags -- extension was a bit much but an incredible defensive player and pker, unlucky with injuries
        Larsson -- great defensive 4th liner, only gave up a 3rd
        Dillon -- was very good as a JC partner while here then flipped for more than we paid SJS for him
        Kovi -- meh, once again only gave up a 3rd
        DK -- super solid and most importantly consistent
        Chuck -- did great while DK was out, has slowed down a bit recently, much better than Fucale who has a .889s% on a top 5 AHL team


        Would also like to add:
        Gus -- incredible 2/3rds of the season, got a great return
        MoJo -- see above
        Strome -- perfect running mate for Ovi, very fair contract
        Milano -- great middle 6 winger on a below market value contract
        Dowd -- legitimately the best 4th liner in the league

        for every shouldve kept!!11!1!1!1!!! guy BMac has been able to find at least one other replacement that was also underutilized by their previous teams! There have obviously been individual mistakes, Chara over Seigenthaler and Weber over Schmidt chief among them, but to act like this is some big systemic failure rather than the natural quirks of development is disingenuous
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        24 mars 2023 à 6 h 35
        #12
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        Wasn't the Siegs trade because of the expansion draft and you wouldn't have been able to protect him so you got something for him from NJD at a deadline when the Devils were selling otherwise?
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        24 mars 2023 à 8 h 13
        #13
        Craig Laughlin Fan
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        Quoting: NJDevils1317
        Wasn't the Siegs trade because of the expansion draft and you wouldn't have been able to protect him so you got something for him from NJD at a deadline when the Devils were selling otherwise?


        Yes, it was. And before that, he'd been fairly pedestrian and Washington had better options ahead of him.
        24 mars 2023 à 11 h 17
        #14
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        Quoting: NJDevils1317
        Wasn't the Siegs trade because of the expansion draft and you wouldn't have been able to protect him so you got something for him from NJD at a deadline when the Devils were selling otherwise?


        he also requested a trade because they brought in Chara at the last minute to play ahead of him. by far GMBM's biggest mistake imo
         
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