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Start of 23-24 with retroactive trades ALL IN BABY

Créé par: BigShoots
Équipe: 2023-24 Canucks de Vancouver
Date de création initiale: 27 janv. 2023
Publié: 27 janv. 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Another all in from the Canucks. Lets run this into the ground baby!

Does this team win the cup? Answer probably. Rutherford won it before.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
21 500 000 $
21 500 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
79 000 000 $
66 500 000 $
33 500 000 $
44 200 000 $
Transactions
1.
VAN
    Some deep prospect or future considerations
    ARI
    1. Myers, Tyler
    Détails additionnels:
    Myers gets 5 mil signing bonus paid by the Canucks July 1st. Actual salary is 1 mil for the season.
    2.
    VAN
    1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (EDM)
    Détails additionnels:
    Any team that needs secondary scoring and has the cap space
    3.
    CAR
      Horvat at 23' deadline
      4.
      VAN
        Any team can take a good prospect in Rathbone for taking one yr of Tanner Pearson
        5.
        VAN
        1. Foote, Cal [Droits de RFA]
        TBL
          For Schenn at 23' deadline
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          27 janv. 2023 à 13 h 31
          #1
          Future GM
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          I think you could get a fifth rounder and a B prospect for Garland just because the term should scare people outta a second.
          27 janv. 2023 à 14 h 1
          #2
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          Quoting: FilthyMitts05
          I think you could get a fifth rounder and a B prospect for Garland just because the term should scare people outta a second.


          One down year where he’s still on pace for roughly 50pts doesn’t tank his value that much lol

          This site is so silly sometimes haha
          27 janv. 2023 à 15 h 8
          #3
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          Quoting: NV94
          One down year where he’s still on pace for roughly 50pts doesn’t tank his value that much lol

          This site is so silly sometimes haha


          You would need to retain some of his cap to move him, 50 points a year isn't horrid but he isn't a very impactful player at 5 mill a year.
          27 janv. 2023 à 15 h 14
          #4
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          Big Shoots
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          Quoting: PurpleHippo
          You would need to retain some of his cap to move him, 50 points a year isn't horrid but he isn't a very impactful player at 5 mill a year.


          He is really quite impactful for a middle 6 fwd. Doesn't need pp or big ice time to produce.
          27 janv. 2023 à 15 h 15
          #5
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          Cup champs for suuuuure
          27 janv. 2023 à 15 h 26
          #6
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          I do think Carolina is the front runner for Bo, the fit is too perfect. I just can't see the Canucks taking Kotkaniemi's contract back in the deal. The term is crazy. Sure, he's 22, but if he's a third line center? With the Canucks already pressed against the cap? That's a lot of money for a third liner, for a long, long time. Right now I'm thinking the Canes want to talk to Bo about an extension, but the Canucks won't agree to do that unless Necas is part of the return. Both are waiting for the other side to blink.

          I am ALL for playing hardball for our assets, but this isn't the Eichel situation where management can hold out for years if they want. They have a month before Horvat is gone for nothing. Maybe they land on Jarvis?

          After Carolina, I'd rank Nashville as the next most likely to get him, no matter what the Preds fans on here might think. Nashville aren't in a position to rebuild and they need something to give them a shot at getting a run or three out their current group. I think Glass would certainly get the conversation started. It may end up being only a rental deal, but Poile's running out of options.

          I'd put New Jersey comfortably in third. They apparently have interest, and they certainly have the assets. I think Meier might be the better play for them, but I could see the Devils stepping up their offer in a hurry if they get outbid for Meier.

          I can't see Detroit coming out of their boots at this point, although I see them at the top of the list if he reaches UFA.

          Boston, Colorado, Seattle, I just don't see the pieces there. If the Avs and Krakkers are talking Byram or Wright, sure...but I don't see it. People always like to throw the Rangers in when big pieces are in play, and stranger things have happened. But I think they have their sights set on Kane, either at the TDL or in July, and I can't see them making a big offer for Bo as a rental.

          Buffalo and Dallas could be dark horses here, IMO.
          27 janv. 2023 à 16 h 32
          #7
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          Quoting: gordfish
          I do think Carolina is the front runner for Bo, the fit is too perfect. I just can't see the Canucks taking Kotkaniemi's contract back in the deal. The term is crazy. Sure, he's 22, but if he's a third line center? With the Canucks already pressed against the cap? That's a lot of money for a third liner, for a long, long time. Right now I'm thinking the Canes want to talk to Bo about an extension, but the Canucks won't agree to do that unless Necas is part of the return. Both are waiting for the other side to blink.

          I am ALL for playing hardball for our assets, but this isn't the Eichel situation where management can hold out for years if they want. They have a month before Horvat is gone for nothing. Maybe they land on Jarvis?

          After Carolina, I'd rank Nashville as the next most likely to get him, no matter what the Preds fans on here might think. Nashville aren't in a position to rebuild and they need something to give them a shot at getting a run or three out their current group. I think Glass would certainly get the conversation started. It may end up being only a rental deal, but Poile's running out of options.

          I'd put New Jersey comfortably in third. They apparently have interest, and they certainly have the assets. I think Meier might be the better play for them, but I could see the Devils stepping up their offer in a hurry if they get outbid for Meier.

          I can't see Detroit coming out of their boots at this point, although I see them at the top of the list if he reaches UFA.

          Boston, Colorado, Seattle, I just don't see the pieces there. If the Avs and Krakkers are talking Byram or Wright, sure...but I don't see it. People always like to throw the Rangers in when big pieces are in play, and stranger things have happened. But I think they have their sights set on Kane, either at the TDL or in July, and I can't see them making a big offer for Bo as a rental.

          Buffalo and Dallas could be dark horses here, IMO.


          Canes should hang up immediately if Necas is even mentioned for Horvat
          27 janv. 2023 à 17 h 45
          #8
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          Quoting: BigShoots
          He is really quite impactful for a middle 6 fwd. Doesn't need pp or big ice time to produce.


          He's not really, from what I have seen at least. At 5 million a year he just doesn't tip the scale anywhere and I'd assume most teams would look to spend that cap elsewhere.
          27 janv. 2023 à 17 h 52
          #9
          Lets Get Kraken
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          Quoting: gordfish
          I do think Carolina is the front runner for Bo, the fit is too perfect. I just can't see the Canucks taking Kotkaniemi's contract back in the deal. The term is crazy. Sure, he's 22, but if he's a third line center? With the Canucks already pressed against the cap? That's a lot of money for a third liner, for a long, long time. Right now I'm thinking the Canes want to talk to Bo about an extension, but the Canucks won't agree to do that unless Necas is part of the return. Both are waiting for the other side to blink.

          I am ALL for playing hardball for our assets, but this isn't the Eichel situation where management can hold out for years if they want. They have a month before Horvat is gone for nothing. Maybe they land on Jarvis?

          After Carolina, I'd rank Nashville as the next most likely to get him, no matter what the Preds fans on here might think. Nashville aren't in a position to rebuild and they need something to give them a shot at getting a run or three out their current group. I think Glass would certainly get the conversation started. It may end up being only a rental deal, but Poile's running out of options.

          I'd put New Jersey comfortably in third. They apparently have interest, and they certainly have the assets. I think Meier might be the better play for them, but I could see the Devils stepping up their offer in a hurry if they get outbid for Meier.

          I can't see Detroit coming out of their boots at this point, although I see them at the top of the list if he reaches UFA.

          Boston, Colorado, Seattle, I just don't see the pieces there. If the Avs and Krakkers are talking Byram or Wright, sure...but I don't see it. People always like to throw the Rangers in when big pieces are in play, and stranger things have happened. But I think they have their sights set on Kane, either at the TDL or in July, and I can't see them making a big offer for Bo as a rental.

          Buffalo and Dallas could be dark horses here, IMO.


          Carolina has been out on Horvat for a while. Canucks wanted Necas, and Waddell wasn’t having it. The Canes also won’t be moving Jarvis, so that thought can also be killed. Canes know what they have in KK, and are perfectly content with him being the long term Staal replacement. The Canucks aren’t going to get what they want from Carolina, and the Canes clearly haven’t given an offer big enough for Vancouver. With the way current Horvat trade negotiations are going, the Canucks are looking at losing Horvat for nothing.
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          27 janv. 2023 à 18 h 22
          #10
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          Big Shoots
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          Quoting: PurpleHippo
          He's not really, from what I have seen at least. At 5 million a year he just doesn't tip the scale anywhere and I'd assume most teams would look to spend that cap elsewhere.


          I assume you didn't watch him previous to this season?
          27 janv. 2023 à 18 h 25
          #11
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          Quoting: gordfish
          I do think Carolina is the front runner for Bo, the fit is too perfect. I just can't see the Canucks taking Kotkaniemi's contract back in the deal. The term is crazy. Sure, he's 22, but if he's a third line center? With the Canucks already pressed against the cap? That's a lot of money for a third liner, for a long, long time. Right now I'm thinking the Canes want to talk to Bo about an extension, but the Canucks won't agree to do that unless Necas is part of the return. Both are waiting for the other side to blink.

          I am ALL for playing hardball for our assets, but this isn't the Eichel situation where management can hold out for years if they want. They have a month before Horvat is gone for nothing. Maybe they land on Jarvis?

          After Carolina, I'd rank Nashville as the next most likely to get him, no matter what the Preds fans on here might think. Nashville aren't in a position to rebuild and they need something to give them a shot at getting a run or three out their current group. I think Glass would certainly get the conversation started. It may end up being only a rental deal, but Poile's running out of options.

          I'd put New Jersey comfortably in third. They apparently have interest, and they certainly have the assets. I think Meier might be the better play for them, but I could see the Devils stepping up their offer in a hurry if they get outbid for Meier.

          I can't see Detroit coming out of their boots at this point, although I see them at the top of the list if he reaches UFA.

          Boston, Colorado, Seattle, I just don't see the pieces there. If the Avs and Krakkers are talking Byram or Wright, sure...but I don't see it. People always like to throw the Rangers in when big pieces are in play, and stranger things have happened. But I think they have their sights set on Kane, either at the TDL or in July, and I can't see them making a big offer for Bo as a rental.

          Buffalo and Dallas could be dark horses here, IMO.


          There is 0 chance Necas or Jarvis would be involved in a trade for Horvat. People have to realize teams aren't going to give up top young players for a free agent. To maximize our asset we should be looking at prospects and picks but because our current management is just as bad as Benning was they are seeking young roster players which will diminish the return. The KK trade is a home run swing. Could go quite badly or could be a bargain.
          27 janv. 2023 à 18 h 29
          #12
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          Quoting: evelutions2
          Carolina has been out on Horvat for a while. Canucks wanted Necas, and Waddell wasn’t having it. The Canes also won’t be moving Jarvis, so that thought can also be killed. Canes know what they have in KK, and are perfectly content with him being the long term Staal replacement. The Canucks aren’t going to get what they want from Carolina, and the Canes clearly haven’t given an offer big enough for Vancouver. With the way current Horvat trade negotiations are going, the Canucks are looking at losing Horvat for nothing.


          Canucks are not attempting to sign Horvat so it will be a trade. I don't think Necas or Jarvis would have ever been considered either. If that is what the canucks are asking theyre even more incompetent than I had thought. Doesn't mean there isn't a deal to be had with the Canes though. Morrow, Heimosalmi, 1st, KK and Im sure other stuff too would all be of interest
          27 janv. 2023 à 19 h 38
          #13
          Lets Get Kraken
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          Quoting: BigShoots
          Canucks are not attempting to sign Horvat so it will be a trade. I don't think Necas or Jarvis would have ever been considered either. If that is what the canucks are asking theyre even more incompetent than I had thought. Doesn't mean there isn't a deal to be had with the Canes though. Morrow, Heimosalmi, 1st, KK and Im sure other stuff too would all be of interest


          If there was a deal to be done, it would have been done. The Canucks still want too much, and frankly, the Canes have bigger holes they need to fill than an offensive c behind Aho. I never said anything about the Canucks resigning Horvat, but if they don’t start being more realistic in their demands, they will lose him for nothing.

          So the Canucks can ask whatever the hell they want, the Canes won’t be making the mistake over overpaying for an offensive 2C who is over performing in a contract year with a completely unsustainable shooting percentage.
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          27 janv. 2023 à 19 h 47
          #14
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          Quoting: evelutions2
          If there was a deal to be done, it would have been done. The Canucks still want too much, and frankly, the Canes have bigger holes they need to fill than an offensive c behind Aho. I never said anything about the Canucks resigning Horvat, but if they don’t start being more realistic in their demands, they will lose him for nothing.

          So the Canucks can ask whatever the hell they want, the Canes won’t be making the mistake over overpaying for an offensive 2C who is over performing in a contract year with a completely unsustainable shooting percentage.


          I mean you are relying on reports for what the ask is? I haven't heard anything personally but it would make sense that the ask high right now. Once it gets to deadline day they can easily just bank on a 1st and prospect. I wouldn't expect an overpay either I'm just saying the Canes are a good fit and have a ton of assets that are of interest to the Canucks. They're likely gonna be in the mix.
          27 janv. 2023 à 20 h 18
          #15
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          Quoting: BigShoots
          I assume you didn't watch him previous to this season?


          I did, not a lot (maybe 20 games of Vancouver last year, less this year so far too).

          Don't mistake me saying I think you would need to retain salary or that he isn't impactful as me saying he's bad.
          But if you're a GM needing to give up assets for someone making 5M for the next 4 years producing 50 points, you're probably asking Allvin to retain a mill or two.
          Otherwise the value isn't really there (at this point).
          27 janv. 2023 à 23 h 32
          #16
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          Quoting: PurpleHippo
          I did, not a lot (maybe 20 games of Vancouver last year, less this year so far too).

          Don't mistake me saying I think you would need to retain salary or that he isn't impactful as me saying he's bad.
          But if you're a GM needing to give up assets for someone making 5M for the next 4 years producing 50 points, you're probably asking Allvin to retain a mill or two.
          Otherwise the value isn't really there (at this point).


          I think you have got your values for contract a little wrong.

          Here the names of fwds between 50-55 points last yr. Atkinson, McCann, Kerfoot, Trochek, Danault, Konecny, Garland, Wilson, Nichushkin, Horvat, Nyquist. The only ones there that make under 5 mil are Garland and Kerfoot. If you wanna include time on ice as well Garland's production is better than all of them. He's a guy that can provide really good secondary scoring, at good cap hit. There is no way anyone retain on him unless the return was immense. Getting him for a 2nd for the right team is a steal.

          The devaluing of players on struggling teams is pretty criminal on these sites. In reality its where you can actually find value in trades.
          28 janv. 2023 à 19 h 7
          #17
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          Quoting: BigShoots
          I think you have got your values for contract a little wrong.

          Here the names of fwds between 50-55 points last yr. Atkinson, McCann, Kerfoot, Trochek, Danault, Konecny, Garland, Wilson, Nichushkin, Horvat, Nyquist. The only ones there that make under 5 mil are Garland and Kerfoot. If you wanna include time on ice as well Garland's production is better than all of them. He's a guy that can provide really good secondary scoring, at good cap hit. There is no way anyone retain on him unless the return was immense. Getting him for a 2nd for the right team is a steal.

          The devaluing of players on struggling teams is pretty criminal on these sites. In reality its where you can actually find value in trades.


          I think people de-value based on the stats they can see rather than the actual play of the player, it happens a lot in Edmonton with Barrie who has been incredible this year but still gets labelled a dump.
          From what I've seen of Garland this year (and scarcely before) he's a great complimentary player but if I'm a GM giving up assets for him and taking on another 5 mill in cap after essentially 4 years of a cap freeze... there just isn't any value there.

          A lot around it is just to do with the contract and term for Garland, a 2nd for him is fair and I'm not trying to take away from that but realistically Edmonton and other contender teams won't do that since there isn't a huge benefit in doing so. HOWEVER, retaining 1-2 Mill on him creates a bigger benefit since he is massively outproducing a "3 mill a year" contract.

          If it was something like a 2nd and a B+ prospect (or something of value) for Garland with retention Edmonton would jump on it, but we would need to move cap and dump players to move him in at 5 mill and that in itself gives him some negative value; plus, Vancouver (I hope) will go into a rebuild instead of a re-tool, them retaining on a few contracts to gain more draft capital/prospects isn't the worst thing.
          28 janv. 2023 à 20 h 14
          #18
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          Quoting: PurpleHippo
          I think people de-value based on the stats they can see rather than the actual play of the player, it happens a lot in Edmonton with Barrie who has been incredible this year but still gets labelled a dump.
          From what I've seen of Garland this year (and scarcely before) he's a great complimentary player but if I'm a GM giving up assets for him and taking on another 5 mill in cap after essentially 4 years of a cap freeze... there just isn't any value there.

          A lot around it is just to do with the contract and term for Garland, a 2nd for him is fair and I'm not trying to take away from that but realistically Edmonton and other contender teams won't do that since there isn't a huge benefit in doing so. HOWEVER, retaining 1-2 Mill on him creates a bigger benefit since he is massively outproducing a "3 mill a year" contract.

          If it was something like a 2nd and a B+ prospect (or something of value) for Garland with retention Edmonton would jump on it, but we would need to move cap and dump players to move him in at 5 mill and that in itself gives him some negative value; plus, Vancouver (I hope) will go into a rebuild instead of a re-tool, them retaining on a few contracts to gain more draft capital/prospects isn't the worst thing.


          As I say retaining on a player who is performing up to there contract and beyond is madness. Has any team ever done that? You'd have to think it'd be for a 1st or two if they ever did.

          If you dont want him or don't think you can fit him in that is fine thats why I said "to anyone" but you don't get that type of player cheaply often, let alone with retention. It's not a realistic ask. It'd be a little like retaining on Evander Kane in a trade that brought back a 2nd and b prospect. .
          28 janv. 2023 à 20 h 47
          #19
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          Quoting: BigShoots
          As I say retaining on a player who is performing up to there contract and beyond is madness. Has any team ever done that? You'd have to think it'd be for a 1st or two if they ever did.

          If you dont want him or don't think you can fit him in that is fine thats why I said "to anyone" but you don't get that type of player cheaply often, let alone with retention. It's not a realistic ask. It'd be a little like retaining on Evander Kane in a trade that brought back a 2nd and b prospect. .


          My point more so is that at 5 mill Edmonton is passing on him, even for a second.
          If there's retention than yea a first could be in the question, but otherwise why give up a 2nd when he just isn't moving the needle... maybe another contender will need him?

          If the Oilers were in a situation where we needed to sell I would 100% retain on Kane to increase the value of his return.
          29 janv. 2023 à 14 h 22
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          Quoting: PurpleHippo
          My point more so is that at 5 mill Edmonton is passing on him, even for a second.
          If there's retention than yea a first could be in the question, but otherwise why give up a 2nd when he just isn't moving the needle... maybe another contender will need him?

          If the Oilers were in a situation where we needed to sell I would 100% retain on Kane to increase the value of his return.


          You get what is it 2-3 retentions and you are going to use one for 4 yrs. That is totally unrealistic. Absurd. Again has it ever happened for a player who is performing? Garland 1 mil retained for 2 1sts maybe id consider. Canucks are too stupid to actually target picks and rebuild unfortunately.
           
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