Quoting: JSEB93
Yeah and the Pens are giving, at worst, an equal player back. Also, the difference in value between a 1st and a 2nd is insane - I think we can all agree on that. So if someone is a fringe 2nd round value like you're saying Domi is, retention would cost maybe a mid round pick like a 3rd or 4th. It's not bumping up a 2nd to a 1st.
That's the thing though is the Pens don't have to dump cap. And because of that, it's not going to cost a 1st to dump Kapanen and his contract. On that link you gave it shows to trades where a team retained a similar amount to this Domi trade - one got a 4th and one got a 6th.
That's not how math works for picks though. A 2nd and 4th-6th does not equal a 1st.
I don't care if they keep him. And you started this conversation so I'm talking to you lol - don't tell me to go start random conversations with other people haha. Makes no sense. If I see someone do an ACGM with an awful Kap trade then I will comment - that's literally what I did here.
It's very unreasonable to get rid of the better player and a 1st round pick for a worse player. I agree they should - and if dumping Kapanen's contract helps them do that then they will. But this isn't it - they aren't pulling the trigger on giving up a first to do it and get someone who isn't even an upgrade.
I responded to you because you literally said "A first for Domi should get you run out of planet Earth", when no one was ever saying Domi was worth a 1st round pick, not even the person who made this ACGM. My position is not that the trade is justified, but that there are multiple factors outside of Domi that contribute to the cost. So, my initial response to you was more of a "To be fair..." retort, suggesting that you consider all the variables and don't just make blanket statements. Somehow you keep manipulating me into defending the trade, which was not my intent or my position.
Also, the proposed value doesn't come from "who the better player is". Kapanen may or may not be "the better player", and if he is, it is by a negligible margin. The value is in dumping the contract, and any extra value comes from getting a comparable nhl player back that fills a role that PIT hypothetically needs (which I'm not sure if they actually need a third line center or not, but this ACGM seems to think so) and wins 60% of his faceoffs at less than half the cap hit and is on an expiring contract so that PIT doesn't have to pay Kapanen next year. Plus, it gives PIT a little cap space for this year as well to make other adds without shorting themselves a roster player.
Domi involved or not, it is going to cost PIT something to dump Kapanen. Domi however is not a cap dump, because, in any scenario, CHI doesn't NEED to trade Domi and isn't the one searching for cap space. Whether or not it will cost a 2nd or a 1st to dump Kapanen will be determined by the trade market. There are plenty of real life examples that reinforce the cost of dumping $4-5M in salary being somewhere in the realm of a 1st round pick. So, if Kapanen is a pure cap dump, and you add Kapanen's pro-rated salary for the rest of this year to his salary for next year, it is just under $5M.
Personally, I think this seems like a bit much, and I actually kinda like Kapanen and think he has more to show if he is given the right situation. I think he is mismanaged in PIT or just doesn't have chemistry with anyone or doesn't play the right style for that team, but he is also getting older and it will only get harder for him to find a role somewhere with an NHL team. That all being said, this proposal is not "madness". Giving up the equivalent of a 1st round pick in order to dump $4-5M in salary may be unlikely in this specific situation, but it is not uncommon.