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Trade Proposal with Big Prospects

Créé par: PuckLuck_77
Équipe: 2022-23 Kings de Los Angeles
Date de création initiale: 20 janv. 2023
Publié: 20 janv. 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Some fun discussion with some fellow Kings fans, in terms of needs for the organization. Ottawa needs RD with talent, Kings need LD with talent. I wonder what a swap would look like, who needs to add, etc.

I'm assuming this gets into a "what do you value in a player" type conversation, but I figured I'd see what folks here have to say.

Clarke is NHL-ready, and would be playing if the Kings weren't so deep on the right side. And since LA likes to slow-develop their prospects, the right side of their defense has become a shell game of waiver eligibility.
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 19
#1
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No LOL. Sanderson is the Goat. #1 D on the Sens and its his rookie year... Clarke still has lots to prove.
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 21
#2
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Isn’t Clarke an offensive D? This would be like a Heiskanen for Bouchard type of swap tbh and I can’t see how it would make sense
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 24
#3
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Quoting: Neptune12
No LOL. Sanderson is the Goat. #1 D on the Sens and its his rookie year... Clarke still has lots to prove.


I mean, in the description I indicated that I wanted this to be a discussion as opposed to just a 1-for-1 trade, but let's go with what you said.

"the Goat." is a heck of a title to give to a kid who has 2 goals in 40+ games and is anchoring a team in the bottom third of the league. I'm not trying to take away from Sanderson at all. I really think he'll be a #1 defenseman on a very good team in time, as Ottawa grows its young talent.

Clarke does have some to prove, but like I said his time in the NHL has shown he's NHL ready. The Kings just aren't "Clarke-ready" for lack of a better term.
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 26
#4
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Quoting: csick
Isn’t Clarke an offensive D? This would be like a Heiskanen for Bouchard type of swap tbh and I can’t see how it would make sense


Very much so an offensive defenseman. I assumed that's what Ottawa was looking for. The Kings are looking for someone that can anchor the second pair and stabilize the defense because we have plenty of prospects with an offensive flair to their game on the right side of the defens (Durzi, Spence, even Grans to some extent).
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 26
#5
Once a Kings Fan Too
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I've been thinking about this potential exchange for days and I've come to the conclusion that I'd do it.

Quoting: csick
Isn’t Clarke an offensive D? This would be like a Heiskanen for Bouchard type of swap tbh and I can’t see how it would make sense

No, although his primary skill is offense, Clarke is seen as an all-around potential All-Star defenseman who is projected to replace Doughty . . . eventually.
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 29
#6
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
Very much so an offensive defenseman. I assumed that's what Ottawa was looking for. The Kings are looking for someone that can anchor the second pair and stabilize the defense because we have plenty of prospects with an offensive flair to their game on the right side of the defens (Durzi, Spence, even Grans to some extent).


I see Sanderson as a future elite #1 2 way D. He might already be better than Chabot tbh. Sanderson and Stutzle are probably the 2 most untouchable guys and probably Brady Tkachuk too
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 33
#7
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Quoting: csick
I see Sanderson as a future elite #1 2 way D. He might already be better than Chabot tbh


I view him the same. But I'm also thinking in the now. Eventually a guy like Sanderson would become the #1 on LA and push Doughty to the 2nd pair as he gets older.

With Clarke, the same thought process. The Kings drafted Brandt with the eventual goal of him succeeding the #1RD spot. I don't think he'll ever be ELITE in the 2-way game, but I think he has the potential to be truly elite in the offensive game (as in top-3 defenseman in points in the league for a few seasons). So in comparing to Sanderson, Brandt should have more offense, while not being quite as effective defensively.
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 36
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
I mean, in the description I indicated that I wanted this to be a discussion as opposed to just a 1-for-1 trade, but let's go with what you said.

"the Goat." is a heck of a title to give to a kid who has 2 goals in 40+ games and is anchoring a team in the bottom third of the league. I'm not trying to take away from Sanderson at all. I really think he'll be a #1 defenseman on a very good team in time, as Ottawa grows its young talent.

Clarke does have some to prove, but like I said his time in the NHL has shown he's NHL ready. The Kings just aren't "Clarke-ready" for lack of a better term.


oh my bad but your title is misleading.
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 37
#9
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
I view him the same. But I'm also thinking in the now. Eventually a guy like Sanderson would become the #1 on LA and push Doughty to the 2nd pair as he gets older.

With Clarke, the same thought process. The Kings drafted Brandt with the eventual goal of him succeeding the #1RD spot. I don't think he'll ever be ELITE in the 2-way game, but I think he has the potential to be truly elite in the offensive game (as in top-3 defenseman in points in the league for a few seasons). So in comparing to Sanderson, Brandt should have more offense, while not being quite as effective defensively.


Why not just:

Anderson-Doughty
Chychrun-Roy
Bjornfot-Clarke

Trade Durzi and Spence (one in the Chychrun trade and the other for maybe a goalie) . Eventually Clarke moves up and Grans comes in
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 38
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Quoting: Neptune12
oh my bad but your title is misleading.


That's totally fair. I can see that misunderstanding.
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 38
#11
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I cannot imagine Ottawa trading Sanderson under any circumstances
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 40
#12
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Don't see how this would work, unless you're adding more defensemen. Clarke and Sanderson are miles apart and the Sens need for D makes me think that even other picks/prospects wouldn't get it done. It'd take an overpay that would also have to include Roy I assume
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 40
#13
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Quoting: csick
Why not just:

Anderson-Doughty
Chychrun-Roy
Bjornfot-Clarke

Trade Durzi and Spence (one in the Chychrun trade and the other for maybe a goalie) . Eventually Clarke moves up and Grans comes in


It really depends on what the package for Chychrun is. The bright side with a Sanderson/Clarke swap of some sort is that it also (likely) wouldn't destroy the rest of the assets that LA has. That leaves a lot more options, and cap, to address other areas of need like Goalie.
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 42
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Quoting: Terry_AkiSauce
Don't see how this would work, unless you're adding more defensemen. Clarke and Sanderson are miles apart and the Sens need for D makes me think that even other picks/prospects wouldn't get it done. It'd take an overpay that would also have to include Roy I assume


I really don't see them that far apart. Different developmental philosophies have them in different leagues right now, not skill or readiness for the NHL. Clarke was not in anyway out of place in his 8 games. The Kings just don't have the roster space for him at the moment.
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 42
#15
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Ottawa is not trading the best blue-chip prospect in the entire league for a prospect that can't even reach 10 games this season.

Try again.
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 42
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
I cannot imagine Ottawa trading Sanderson under any circumstances


Same with the Kings and Clarke. It was more of just a fun thought experiment.
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 44
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Quoting: sensonfire
Ottawa is not trading the best blue-chip prospect in the entire league for a prospect that can't even reach 10 games this season.

Try again.


Did you bother reading any of the rest of the conversation/description or did you just look at Clarke's GP stat and call it a day?
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 44
#18
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
It really depends on what the package for Chychrun is. The bright side with a Sanderson/Clarke swap of some sort is that it also (likely) wouldn't destroy the rest of the assets that LA has. That leaves a lot more options, and cap, to address other areas of need like Goalie.


The thing that I want to tell you is that you’re wasting prospects in the minors anyways. Once a forward reaches like 22 and a Dman like 23 and they’re still not in the AHL , they start to lose value. So guys Kupari, ****emo, JAD, Turcotte (soon), etc their time is now. You’re already stacked on forwards and on D as well.

Let’s assume you keep everyone except Walker next year on D. That leaves Anderson, Doughty , Durzi, Spence, Clarke, Bjornfot, Roy, you could even get a 3LD in free agency. Subbing one of your D for Chychrun at the expense of a forward prospect that doesn’t have room to play and a 1st isnt a big ask. You just can’t keep all your prospects , eventually you gotta do a big deal. And the time is now for LA to do that
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 46
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
Same with the Kings and Clarke. It was more of just a fun thought experiment.


I’ll say it this way. Sanderson has a better shot of becoming Doughty than Clarke does of becoming Karlsson. And Doughty has 2 cups and Karlsson has none
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 48
#20
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Quoting: csick
The thing that I want to tell you is that you’re wasting prospects in the minors anyways. Once a forward reaches like 22 and a Dman like 23 and they’re still not in the AHL , they start to lose value. So guys Kupari, ****emo, JAD, Turcotte (soon), etc their time is now. You’re already stacked on forwards and on D as well.

Let’s assume you keep everyone except Walker next year on D. That leaves Anderson, Doughty , Durzi, Spence, Clarke, Bjornfot, Roy, you could even get a 3LD in free agency. Subbing one of your D for Chychrun at the expense of a forward prospect that doesn’t have room to play and a 1st isnt a big ask. You just can’t keep all your prospects , eventually you gotta do a big deal. And the time is now for LA to do that


I don't necessarily disagree with the thought process. One of my most vocal gripes with LA has been that it takes them FOREVER to churn out prospects, and even when they are ready Blake blocks their progress with tweeners like Lizotte, Lemieux, Grundstrom, and even to an extent Arvidsson. Their development process is slow to the point of detrimental. However, teams like the Rangers are on the opposite side of the spectrum. I wish LA would find a nice middle ground.

I also don't necessarily agree with "the time is now", however. As seen by their goaltending, LA isn't just a Chychrun away from contending for the Cup. There are holes on this roster and just moving big pieces because they are getting close to 22/23 might not be the smartest move.

And by the way, I appreciate the candid conversation. This is exactly what I was hoping for.
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20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 49
#21
sensonfire
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
Did you bother reading any of the rest of the conversation/description or did you just look at Clarke's GP stat and call it a day?


I read it all of it.



1. You state, " I wonder what a swap would look like".

This ain't it.



2. You also state further, "I wonder ... who needs to add ..."

That should be pretty obvious to you.

But it's not.



Ottawa declines.

Try again.
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 51
#22
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Quoting: sensonfire
I read it all of it.



1. You state, " I wonder what a swap would look like".

This ain't it.



2. You also state further, "I wonder ... who needs to add ..."

That should be pretty obvious to you.

But it's not.



Ottawa declines.

Try again.


I never once said the Kings wouldn't add. As a matter of fact I actually assume LA would need to add.
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 52
#23
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
I never once said the Kings wouldn't add. As a matter of fact I actually assume LA would need to add.


Sure.
20 janv. 2023 à 16 h 58
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Quoting: PuckLuck_77
It really depends on what the package for Chychrun is. The bright side with a Sanderson/Clarke swap of some sort is that it also (likely) wouldn't destroy the rest of the assets that LA has. That leaves a lot more options, and cap, to address other areas of need like Goalie.


I understand your way of thinking and how good it would be for your team to do that swap, However This season Sanderson established himself as a very good top 4 D while Clarke still needs to prove it. Ottawa would fix the RD issue they have but would open up another issue on the Left side. so

1. Sanderson has more value than Clarke at the moment because he's proven.
2. The Sens would create a new hole in their lineup.
3. I don't think you want to do that RD are the most valuable assets in the league rn You should hold onto him.
4. Clarke is a stud and you might regret that in a couple years. He's from Ottawa every NHL player from Ottawa turns into a stud the Level of hockey here is unparalleled. Just look at Mctavish those 2 are the same age and both played AAA hockey in the region.
5. Because Clarke isn't established as a full time nhler I could see PD asking for a second asset in return.
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20 janv. 2023 à 17 h 12
#25
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Quoting: Neptune12
I understand your way of thinking and how good it would be for your team to do that swap, However This season Sanderson established himself as a very good top 4 D while Clarke still needs to prove it. Ottawa would fix the RD issue they have but would open up another issue on the Left side. so

1. Sanderson has more value than Clarke at the moment because he's proven.
2. The Sens would create a new hole in their lineup.
3. I don't think you want to do that RD are the most valuable assets in the league rn You should hold onto him.
4. Clarke is a stud and you might regret that in a couple years. He's from Ottawa every NHL player from Ottawa turns into a stud the Level of hockey here is unparalleled. Just look at Mctavish those 2 are the same age and both played AAA hockey in the region.
5. Because Clarke isn't established as a full time nhler I could see PD asking for a second asset in return.


1) Agreed.
2) That's kind of what I was trying to figure out and it's good to hear from a fan who follows the fanbase. The word I've read is Dorion is looking for a RD. I don't know how true that is, and I also didn't know how much of a hole would be created with Sanderson being moved since Chabot is still an absolute stud that is only 25.
3) At some point the Kings will need to trade from a position of strength. With Doughty, Roy, Walker, Spence, Durzi and Grans, RD is the area of strength. Clarke is the best prospect among them, but would be worth moving if a guy of Sanderson's caliber came back. And since both are extremely highly touted...... I figured Clarke's name would be the only one worth mentioning if bringing up Sanderson.
4) Agreed, I'm really looking forward to Clarke's development.
5) Yeah, I agree. Trades like this are so hard to imagine and price out, but there would absolutely need to be something else going to Ottawa simply due to current status. They aren't TOO far apart in my opinion, but Sanderson is the more valuable for sure.
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