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Patches replacement - Cost

Créé par: vikhodush
Équipe: 2022-23 Hurricanes de la Caroline
Date de création initiale: 20 janv. 2023
Publié: 20 janv. 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Just spitballing some common names to see what the cost would be. Varying levels of players that are generally targeted by the Canes versus pure rentals who fill the gap Patches was supposed to solve.

Who else did I miss? Cap space doesn't seem like it'll be an issue is the only silver lining now but the cost to acquire just went up for the Canes..
Transactions
1.
CAR
  1. Kane, Patrick
Détails additionnels:
Obviously he controls his destination so let's assume he wants to go to CAR for a cup run. What's the cost? Seems like he's been hurt and has something that may continue to nag him the rest of the year so not sure Canes would be interested if the cost were too high given what just happened w/ Patches.
CHI
2.
CAR
  1. Konecny, Travis
Détails additionnels:
Not sure if he's on the block or somebody Philly would actually look to move but Canes typically go after guys with term. Assume cost to acquire would be high with the season he's having. What does it take?
PHI
3.
CAR
  1. Meier, Timo
Détails additionnels:
Great player, would fit the system really well. Imagine a deal would look something like the Debrincat offer as a baseline and adjust from there. Canes don't have the high first that the Sens gave but could add in a top prospect. Would imagine they'd need to get some certainty around an extension since his QO is so high.
SJS
4.
CAR
  1. Tarasenko, Vladimir
Détails additionnels:
Injuries are a concern here too, so not sure Canes want to take the risk after what happened w/ Patches but seems like a guy that may get moved if the blues fall out of the race. What's the cost here realistically with a so-so season and some injuries nagging him?
STL
5.
CAR
  1. Horvat, Bo
Détails additionnels:
Everybody's favorite rumor :) What's the cost here - with and without an extension?
VAN
6.
CAR
  1. Boeser, Brock
Détails additionnels:
What's the cost here? Not sure this is a great system fit and don't think it's likely Canes take a risk here given how much BB makes but its an intriguing option for a FO that sometimes takes risky swings.
VAN
7.
CAR
  1. O'Reilly, Ryan
Détails additionnels:
Don't think Canes would be in on him but if Blues fall out of race what would this cost? Doesn't solve the true need that I think we have but definitely brings an element that wouldn't hurt to have.
STL
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
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1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
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1 875 000 $1 875 000 $
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20 janv. 2023 à 9 h 12
#1
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I really think ROR would be great for Carolina. Everytime I watch the canes they seem like they playRORs style to a T.

Tarasenkos injury concerns aren’t really nagging. He broke his hand or wrist from a one off puck hitting him. It’s not like his old injuries where it was a botched surgery on a labrum. Is be willing to bet the ask on both players is a 1st to begin and then some combination of a young player or prospect who isn’t too far out and probably a mid round pick included. Hard to get a full gauge with how both of them had a pretty slow start as did the whole Blues team in general.

Wouldn’t be surprised if contract talks with RORs camp started again recently with the defense playing better in general. I’d imagine regardless of the outcome though Tarasenko gets shopped. Could be the same with ROR tbh. Our young kids that have gotten an opportunity have really ran with it. Hard to send a lot of them back down at this point although they’ll slow down soon I’d imagine.
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20 janv. 2023 à 9 h 15
#2
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Of these, ROR, Senko, Kane are all dealing with injuries.

Boeser is just not good

Horvat does not play defense and would get the Erik Haula treatment in the Canes system.

Meier has a ridiculous QO of 10 million.

That leaves Konecny. He's absolutely the perfect target, except he's having a career year and no one is going to want to overpay for him right now.
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20 janv. 2023 à 9 h 29
#3
Hurricane Waddell
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Be prepared to get blown away by logical and realistic ‘trade proposals’
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20 janv. 2023 à 9 h 39
#4
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imo konecny is the best target for carolina on this list but the price to get him with that term, especially since it's in the division, will be prohibitive to them making the deal.
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20 janv. 2023 à 9 h 50
#5
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It's going to take a lot to get Konecny, probably a lot more than your willing to give up, like you said he's having a career year, 48 in 40, but most importantly the flyers really don't have to (nor do I think want to) trade konecny, he's still in their timeline and has 3 years left at 5.5, so if they wanted to trade him it'd be at the end of that contract, I don't think they'd trade him unless the offer blew them away
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20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 2
#6
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Quoting: AC14
I really think ROR would be great for Carolina. Everytime I watch the canes they seem like they playRORs style to a T.

Tarasenkos injury concerns aren’t really nagging. He broke his hand or wrist from a one off puck hitting him. It’s not like his old injuries where it was a botched surgery on a labrum. Is be willing to bet the ask on both players is a 1st to begin and then some combination of a young player or prospect who isn’t too far out and probably a mid round pick included. Hard to get a full gauge with how both of them had a pretty slow start as did the whole Blues team in general.

Wouldn’t be surprised if contract talks with RORs camp started again recently with the defense playing better in general. I’d imagine regardless of the outcome though Tarasenko gets shopped. Could be the same with ROR tbh. Our young kids that have gotten an opportunity have really ran with it. Hard to send a lot of them back down at this point although they’ll slow down soon I’d imagine.


Appreciate the input! I think ROR would fit well but seems like we're missing a high-end goal scorer which is why I'm not as excited about ROR even though he would undoubtedly provide a ton of value. The ask seems a little high or at least maybe unlikely since Canes rarely spend big on true rentals. The market is super interesting this year with the flat cap. I just don't know how many teams can take on 5-8m at the deadline without serious retention or salary coming back. The only advantage canes have with this situation is they have plenty of space.
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20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 3
#7
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Quoting: Caniac555
Be prepared to get blown away by logical and realistic ‘trade proposals’


Def waiting for those - I just haven't been on here recently so not sure what the ballpark asks even are. Cap situation makes things super interesting this deadline. Canes at least have plenty of space which most other contenders probably don't have as much of so would need things like third team retention or salary coming back in trades.

Who do you want us to target?
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20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 6
#8
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Quoting: vikhodush
Appreciate the input! I think ROR would fit well but seems like we're missing a high-end goal scorer which is why I'm not as excited about ROR even though he would undoubtedly provide a ton of value. The ask seems a little high or at least maybe unlikely since Canes rarely spend big on true rentals. The market is super interesting this year with the flat cap. I just don't know how many teams can take on 5-8m at the deadline without serious retention or salary coming back. The only advantage canes have with this situation is they have plenty of space.


Heh. Buddy, starting with a 1st for Tarasenko isn't high. He's among the best playoff snipers in the league. And yes, I'm sure they'd retain for you. Also, it's starting to look like he may be back sooner than expected.
20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 8
#9
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Quoting: Caniac2000
Of these, ROR, Senko, Kane are all dealing with injuries.

Boeser is just not good

Horvat does not play defense and would get the Erik Haula treatment in the Canes system.

Meier has a ridiculous QO of 10 million.

That leaves Konecny. He's absolutely the perfect target, except he's having a career year and no one is going to want to overpay for him right now.


Agree with some of this but still think there's more context to it. Boeser has been bad for the last year and a half and is definitely risky with the term and contract left but I do think any change of scenery would really benefit him from both a system perspective and just all the personal stuff that's happened to him.

Horvat's defense isn't great but I think a lot of that is systemic issues with VAN's structure. I'm not an expert on them nor have I spent too much time watching their games but when I do I'm blown away by the awful team defense in general. Again, a risk but I do think he would be passable defensively while giving us the scoring that we'd need. Now I don't think we'd actually trade for him b/c I doubt an extension would be given at the terms he wants but still an interesting target.

Meier is perfect for us but QO is awful. Based on what I've read about his situation though is that he'd gladly sign a long-term deal at a lower AAV so if we can get comfortable there then I think he's a perfect fit.

Konecny would be great but agree that he's probably too expensive to acquire since Philly shouldn't have a ton of motivation to move him.
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20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 10
#10
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Well I suppose if we are working on the premise that Patches is in fact heading back to LTIR - it removes the cap barrier to the equation but doesn’t really change the Canes being stingy with their assets. Doubt they move Morrow, 2023 1st, or any main roster player we are counting on. That means we are probably outbid for the big names.

Horvat makes a ton of sense (did before the injury as well) assuming the market the Canes compete with also see him as a rental. No shot that the Canes cough up $8 x 8 in an extension which some else will.

They have to get a scoring PP forward (center or not) and a solid mobile 3LHD allowing CDH to be the 7th defender who can fill in on either side.

Canes probably settle for the lowest cost options and end up with like JVR and Joel Edmondson - something like that

Quoting: vikhodush
Def waiting for those - I just haven't been on here recently so not sure what the ballpark asks even are. Cap situation makes things super interesting this deadline. Canes at least have plenty of space which most other contenders probably don't have as much of so would need things like third team retention or salary coming back in trades.

Who do you want us to target?
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20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 10
#11
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Quoting: mokumboi
Heh. Buddy, starting with a 1st for Tarasenko isn't high. He's among the best playoff snipers in the league. And yes, I'm sure they'd retain for you. Also, it's starting to look like he may be back sooner than expected.


I've missed your snark lol - a first would be fair and a conditional pick based on GP or team performance in the playoffs. I'm basing it off of his not so great season and injury risk. I get this one may have been a fluke but I don't think teams will ignore his games missed over the last few years. The Canes don't need the retention (unless Patches miraculously had a cramp last night which would make this whole thread pointless) and would take on the full salary so I doubt they pay extra for that.
20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 13
#12
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Quoting: Caniac555
Well I suppose if we are working on the premise that Patches is in fact heading back to LTIR - it removes the cap barrier to the equation but doesn’t really change the Canes being stingy with their assets. Doubt they move Morrow, 2023 1st, or any main roster player we are counting on. That means we are probably outbid for the big names.

Horvat makes a ton of sense (did before the injury as well) assuming the market the Canes compete with also see him as a rental. No shot that the Canes cough up $8 x 8 in an extension which some else will.

They have to get a scoring PP forward (center or not) and a solid mobile 3LHD allowing CDH to be the 7th defender who can fill in on either side.

Canes probably settle for the lowest cost options and end up with like JVR and Joel Edmondson - something like that


Yeah, agree with that. I wouldn't mind somebody like Ghost unless Skjei grabs that second PP QB. I guess Edmundson would be ok given the familiarity but that doesn't get me too excited.

Maybe they'll surprise us and spend a bit more (like the 1st) on a top 6 F if Patches is done for the year. Prior behavior says no but at some point I'd think they make a riskier / more costly move.
20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 15
#13
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Maybe, or also maybe they actually see what they want out of Chatfield (sorry to our friend @Caniac2000 ) that they actually come off of Morrow being untouchable.

These are all things causing my cousin Donnie to lose a few winks over last night.

Quoting: vikhodush
Yeah, agree with that. I wouldn't mind somebody like Ghost unless Skjei grabs that second PP QB. I guess Edmundson would be ok given the familiarity but that doesn't get me too excited.

Maybe they'll surprise us and spend a bit more (like the 1st) on a top 6 F if Patches is done for the year. Prior behavior says no but at some point I'd think they make a riskier / more costly move.
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20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 18
#14
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Quoting: Caniac555
Maybe, or also maybe they actually see what they want out of Chatfield (sorry to our friend Caniac2000 ) that they actually come off of Morrow being untouchable.

These are all things causing my cousin Donnie to lose a few winks over last night.


What's his issue w/ Chatty? I've loved his game dating back to last year. Obviously his offensive production recently isn't sustainable but hes been great.
20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 19
#15
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He’s the perfect 3rd pairing defender for our team. I, myself, have zero issues with Chatty.

Quoting: vikhodush
What's his issue w/ Chatty? I've loved his game dating back to last year. Obviously his offensive production recently isn't sustainable but hes been great.
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20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 21
#16
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Quoting: Caniac555
He’s the perfect 3rd pairing defender for our team. I, myself, have zero issues with Chatty.


Assume it's not blocking Morrow. Which I get but he's also perfect for us like you said.
20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 57
#17
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I think Boeser would be a suprisingly good fit.
IMO, here's what a potential deal would look like:
To Carolina:
Brock Boeser(1.33m retained), cap hit of 5.32 mil
To Vancouver:
Noel Gunler
Joel Nystrom
'23 2nd
20 janv. 2023 à 11 h 58
#18
mokumboi
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Quoting: vikhodush
I've missed your snark lol - a first would be fair and a conditional pick based on GP or team performance in the playoffs. I'm basing it off of his not so great season and injury risk. I get this one may have been a fluke but I don't think teams will ignore his games missed over the last few years. The Canes don't need the retention (unless Patches miraculously had a cramp last night which would make this whole thread pointless) and would take on the full salary so I doubt they pay extra for that.


I didn't realize I was being snarky. In any event...

1 - When a "not so great season" means 29 pts in 34 games, well, lots of players would die for that sort of dynamic. He's one of the most consistent producers of the last decade+, especially at 5v5 and in the playoffs.

2 - The hand injury was mere happenstance, there's no enduring risk from that or from his shoulder, which since finally repaired properly has given him zero problems.

He will cost a 23 1st+, as he should.
20 janv. 2023 à 12 h 53
#19
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Quoting: vikhodush
Appreciate the input! I think ROR would fit well but seems like we're missing a high-end goal scorer which is why I'm not as excited about ROR even though he would undoubtedly provide a ton of value. The ask seems a little high or at least maybe unlikely since Canes rarely spend big on true rentals. The market is super interesting this year with the flat cap. I just don't know how many teams can take on 5-8m at the deadline without serious retention or salary coming back. The only advantage canes have with this situation is they have plenty of space.


Sorry I didn’t state it but I’d imagine max retention is assumed with Tarasenko and ROR. Especially ROR given his salary is paid in signing bonuses at the beginning of the year for all but 1m I believe.

I think the flat cap is honestly a benefit to rentals value. But if a first is high I doubt the Canes get any of the rentals that were assumed on the list. Tarasenko may go lower than a first puck wise but i would imagine the pick wouldn’t be the centerpiece if that’s the case.

Personally in my eyes for those two any less than a first as a centerpiece we’re better off taking our chances at the playoffs which isn’t really even a gaurantee given how our defense has been this season. But letting those two walk as opposed to getting a pick after 50 and a long shot prospect doesn’t really seem all that bad.
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