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Interesting idea

Créé par: Hammerwise
Équipe: 2022-23 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 19 janv. 2023
Publié: 19 janv. 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
This solidifies defense for TOR and gives them good balance moving forward.

Sandin is in his 4th year and looking average at best. Hes not really a steady dman or a puck rusher, Liljegren as a RD is looking real good, but needs a steady partner.

Money is an issue, Sanheim's cap hit is high, but hes coming off a career year.

The deal is offered as Engvall is a pure cap dump to PHI. He offers nothing and has minimal TDL value.
Transactions
TOR
  1. MacEwen, Zack
  2. Sanheim, Travis (750 000 $ retained)
PHI
  1. Engvall, Pierre
  2. Sandin, Rasmus
  3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (TOR)
  4. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (TOR)
Détails additionnels:
A cap dump, struggling young defender, and 2 picks late in their rounds
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2023
Logo de TOR
Logo de OTT
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
2024
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de OTT
2025
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
Logo de TOR
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2382 500 000 $81 820 413 $212 500 $0 $679 587 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
950 000 $950 000 $
AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 640 250 $11 640 250 $
C
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
10 903 000 $10 903 000 $
AD
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
2 100 000 $2 100 000 $
AD, C, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
C, AG
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
6 962 366 $6 962 366 $
AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
AG, C, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
834 167 $834 167 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
840 630 $840 630 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
827 500 $827 500 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
Logo de Flyers de Philadelphie
925 000 $925 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
762 500 $762 500 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
900 000 $900 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
7 500 000 $7 500 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG/DD
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
4 687 500 $4 687 500 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Flyers de Philadelphie
3 925 000 $3 925 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 400 000 $1 400 000 $
DD
RFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 800 000 $1 800 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
800 000 $800 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
850 000 $850 000 $
DD
RFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 625 000 $5 625 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
796 667 $796 667 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2

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19 janv. 2023 à 5 h 51
#1
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How is Sandin Struggling?
MitchJr a aimé ceci.
19 janv. 2023 à 5 h 54
#2
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: T0R
How is Sandin Struggling?


This guy clearly doesnt watch the games or look at the numbers lmao
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19 janv. 2023 à 5 h 56
#3
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Quoting: Random2152
This guy clearly doesnt watch the games or look at the numbers lmao


Like the Sandin Lilly pairing is the best one the Leafs have, both guys are signed for 1.4 this & next season, They are the future of the Leafs D-Core & Look like absolute studs this year in bigger roles
19 janv. 2023 à 6 h 4
#4
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Modifié 19 janv. 2023 à 6 h 18
Quoting: T0R
How is Sandin Struggling?


Hes not a crease clearer, not quite a puck rusher and all wrong for top 4 play with Liljegren. TOR gets a better balanced defense, and Sanheim is much better suited for 2nd pairing for Liljegren.

I dont see Sandin as a top 4 dman, unless he has a top RD as a partner who is more of a defender than puck rusher. Hes barely above 16 minutes a game and muzzin/giordano are better options at 2LD than Sandin. I just dont see an elevation of game with him. Hes a good 3LD, with a crease clearing RD partner. With brodie, giordano, holl (and muzzin) all getting old and contract status short, and their best prospect Niemala a RD, getting a steady and long term 2 way, 2nd pairing dman is a good move. Liljegren, reilly, timmins are good puck rushers (young and easily signed/controlled long term. Sanheim at 5.25mil is an upgrade now and moving forward.
19 janv. 2023 à 6 h 38
#5
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Quoting: T0R
Like the Sandin Lilly pairing is the best one the Leafs have, both guys are signed for 1.4 this & next season, They are the future of the Leafs D-Core & Look like absolute studs this year in bigger roles


Quoting: Hammerwise
Hes not a crease clearer, not quite a puck rusher and all wrong for top 4 play with Liljegren. TOR gets a better balanced defense, and Sanheim is much better suited for 2nd pairing for Liljegren.

I dont see Sandin as a top 4 dman, unless he has a top RD as a partner who is more of a defender than puck rusher. Hes barely above 16 minutes a game and muzzin/giordano are better options at 2LD than Sandin. I just dont see an elevation of game with him. Hes a good 3LD, with a crease clearing RD partner. With brodie, giordano, holl (and muzzin) all getting old and contract status short, and their best prospect Niemala a RD, getting a steady and long term 2 way, 2nd pairing dman is a good move. Liljegren, reilly, timmins are good puck rushers (young and easily signed/controlled long term. Sanheim at 5.25mil is an upgrade now and moving forward.


Hammer wise - that is some seriously flawed logic. Sandin (& Liligren) arguably has the best numbers in our d corps (offensive, xGF% and defensive, xGA ). I watch the games and don’t see him as an issue at all; he’s not big but he’s strong and plays physical and he’s extremely smart and great puck mover and on a great contract. 100% against moving him.
And Engvall - while frustrating - is big can skate and is posting elite defensive numbers. Him, ZAR and Kampf would be an elite shutdown line
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19 janv. 2023 à 6 h 50
#6
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Modifié 19 janv. 2023 à 6 h 55
Quoting: MitchJr
Hammer wise - that is some seriously flawed logic. Sandin (& Liligren) arguably has the best numbers in our d corps (offensive, xGF% and defensive, xGA ). I watch the games and don’t see him as an issue at all; he’s not big but he’s strong and plays physical and he’s extremely smart and great puck mover and on a great contract. 100% against moving him.
And Engvall - while frustrating - is big can skate and is posting elite defensive numbers. Him, ZAR and Kampf would be an elite shutdown line


Again, not saying engavll isnt a good depth player, but as a 2.25mil expiring UFA what value does he have to the Flyers? He has none.

I dont disagree that some of his numbers are good or that hes still young and has a good contract.

Sandin, again in the simplest terms, has not put up solid/above average puck rushing numbers/production in his 2 abbreviated NHL seasons on a team that is near tops in offense. Even with brodie, benn, muzzin, reilly missing time, sandin is still at 16 minutes a game. I'm not saying he isn;t a solid defender, but I am saying IMO that an upgrade on defense is probably there. Im not arguing that hes playing more "sheltered" minutes, some may make that case, but my simple point is that I dont and certainly on Keefes TOI, see an elevation of his game that makes him a top 4 dman now or possibly into the future. Liljegren = definitely

Its not all sandin, its also the entire makeup, age, talent, abilities of the entire Leafs defense that works against Sandin. I am not sold on Murray/Samsonov in net and therefore an upgrade on defense that works now and moving forward is where Id start. IMO, The age/contract lengths of benn, muzzin, brodie, holl dont help their value or long term ability to make a better defense. IMO, Reilly, liljegren, timmins are the puck rushers we need to partner, to release them to elevate their games. The reason Holl gets 20 mins a game is that hes a stay at home, crease clearer. Giordano has been above average because hes solid two ways but is solid in front of his own net.

The one guy on defense who has some value (both in possible untapped potential AND contract, that stands out for upgrade asnd provides a better balance on defense is Sandin. (I just dont know if there is untapped potential or san elevated game for him, theres a reason that through the injuries theyre still playing him in 3rd pair minutes)
19 janv. 2023 à 7 h 5
#7
Rip
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Quoting: Hammerwise
Hes not a crease clearer, not quite a puck rusher and all wrong for top 4 play with Liljegren. TOR gets a better balanced defense, and Sanheim is much better suited for 2nd pairing for Liljegren.

I dont see Sandin as a top 4 dman, unless he has a top RD as a partner who is more of a defender than puck rusher. Hes barely above 16 minutes a game and muzzin/giordano are better options at 2LD than Sandin. I just dont see an elevation of game with him. Hes a good 3LD, with a crease clearing RD partner. With brodie, giordano, holl (and muzzin) all getting old and contract status short, and their best prospect Niemala a RD, getting a steady and long term 2 way, 2nd pairing dman is a good move. Liljegren, reilly, timmins are good puck rushers (young and easily signed/controlled long term. Sanheim at 5.25mil is an upgrade now and moving forward.


And this is why you propose trading for Sandin? Come on man, this is such a transparent used car salesmanship effort. You want a player and propose a trade for that player and then spend a large amount of effort bashing said player to justify the ridiculous trade. Sanheim has been part of one of the worst defensive units for several years. He's not a top 4 defenceman
19 janv. 2023 à 7 h 36
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Quoting: Hammerwise
Again, not saying engavll isnt a good depth player, but as a 2.25mil expiring UFA what value does he have to the Flyers? He has none.

I dont disagree that some of his numbers are good or that hes still young and has a good contract.

Sandin, again in the simplest terms, has not put up solid/above average puck rushing numbers/production in his 2 abbreviated NHL seasons on a team that is near tops in offense. Even with brodie, benn, muzzin, reilly missing time, sandin is still at 16 minutes a game. I'm not saying he isn;t a solid defender, but I am saying IMO that an upgrade on defense is probably there. Im not arguing that hes playing more "sheltered" minutes, some may make that case, but my simple point is that I dont and certainly on Keefes TOI, see an elevation of his game that makes him a top 4 dman now or possibly into the future. Liljegren = definitely

Its not all sandin, its also the entire makeup, age, talent, abilities of the entire Leafs defense that works against Sandin. I am not sold on Murray/Samsonov in net and therefore an upgrade on defense that works now and moving forward is where Id start. IMO, The age/contract lengths of benn, muzzin, brodie, holl dont help their value or long term ability to make a better defense. IMO, Reilly, liljegren, timmins are the puck rushers we need to partner, to release them to elevate their games. The reason Holl gets 20 mins a game is that hes a stay at home, crease clearer. Giordano has been above average because hes solid two ways but is solid in front of his own net.

The one guy on defense who has some value (both in possible untapped potential AND contract, that stands out for upgrade asnd provides a better balance on defense is Sandin. (I just dont know if there is untapped potential or san elevated game for him, theres a reason that through the injuries theyre still playing him in 3rd pair minutes)


Take a look at the data on moneypuck, I think you’ll find evidence contrary to your opinion. Keefe plays Lili / Sandin the least of the 6, which makes sense - they’re the youngest. But all of Sandin’s underlying numbers are good to great.
He’s def top 4 potential, and would be playing top 4 (PP quarterback) if he were on a bottom half team. Just ridiculous proposal to trade him now when we are heading to 1st round matchup vs Tampa & his contract is so cheap
19 janv. 2023 à 8 h 36
#9
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I really don't think the leafs do this, not only is Sandin literally on pace for more points than Sanheim this season, but Sandin is also 22, still very young, on a cheap contract and is part of one of their best pairings, and is also the better player on that pairing, having a higher IPP and CF then Liljegren, not to mention that 6.25 would definitely tie them up in cap which is probably not what they would want, as a flyers fan I'd love this trade, but I just don't see it happening
19 janv. 2023 à 8 h 39
#10
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Quoting: RipNasty
And this is why you propose trading for Sandin? Come on man, this is such a transparent used car salesmanship effort. You want a player and propose a trade for that player and then spend a large amount of effort bashing said player to justify the ridiculous trade. Sanheim has been part of one of the worst defensive units for several years. He's not a top 4 defenceman


while this trade is definitely terrible for Toronto and I agree that it won't happen, but Sanheim is really good, advanced stats still like him a lot and is getting really unlucky this season, regardless this trade won't happen
 
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