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Toronto Maple Leafs 2022 2023 Season Discussion (Part 3)

24 janv. 2023 à 7 h 47
#226
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Anyway Bobs prospect ranking came out.

Jayden Perron at 50 has me salivating. Textbook Dubas pick. Short, extremely skilled, intelligent, highly productive, Chicago Steel player.

Want want want. He is the #1 reason ive been hesitant to argue in favour of trading our 1st this year
24 janv. 2023 à 9 h 45
#227
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I'm not someone that is particularly inclined to trade Sandin, but if he can be moved to be get a guy like Timo Meier and ensure we don't have to move Knies, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If we can go out and get Gavrikov and Meier, this team is a legit contender. It's SUPER unrealistic, but imagine:

To CBJ: Abruzzese, 2024 2nd Round Pick, 2023 3rd Round Pick
To TOR: Gavrikov, 2023 4th Round Pick

To SJS: Sandin, Hirvonen, 2023 1st Round Pick, 2024 1st Round Pick
To TOR: Meier (50% retained, extension agreed upon)

Meier - Matthews - Nylander
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Engvall - Player X (Maybe Bonino?)- Jarnkrok
Holmberg - Kampf - Kerfoot

Rielly - Liljegren
Gavrikov - Brodie (👀)
Giordano - Timmins



I would agree there is too much smoke out there talking about D. The only reason why I could possibly see something like this happening is, opening night roster:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Nylander-Tavares-Malgin
Engvall-Kerfoot-Jarnkrok
AstonReese-Kampf-AubeKubel

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Giordano-Sandin

They went into the season with Muzzin, fully expecting him to play in the top 4. Only once Liljegren injured (and Dalhstrom, Benn) did Sandin sign.

If Muzzin doesn’t get injured, once Liljegren was healthy, someone was getting moved.

My issue is, out of defensive pairings who have played over 300mins together (66 pairings) Sandin Liljegren - 1st in xG per 60 and 10th in xG against per 60 (they are ahead of Weager Tanev, Graves Marino, Martinez Pietrangelo) and some other really good groups.

I’m really scratching my head as to why on earth we need to fix:
Rielly Brodie
Sandin Liljegren
Giordano Holl

Now Brodie has been out for longer than expected, if he is a little more banged up than they are letting on, then I can understand the need for D.

The cost for Gavrikov is based off the David Savard trade (1st + 3rd + 4th) That’s a fireable offense for me if Kyle spends that on a D. Plus Gavrikov projected deal is for 5.5-6 on a 5-6 year deal, no thanks.

There have been enough posts with how Shiite our bottom six has been and power play have been during all of our 1st round exits.

Give me more scoring, my two cents.
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24 janv. 2023 à 10 h 29
#228
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Quoting: Random2152
Anyway Bobs prospect ranking came out.

Jayden Perron at 50 has me salivating. Textbook Dubas pick. Short, extremely skilled, intelligent, highly productive, Chicago Steel player.

Want want want. He is the #1 reason ive been hesitant to argue in favour of trading our 1st this year


Gavin Brindley at 43 is real interesting too… would be a tidy bit of business to trade back and grab one or both of those two
24 janv. 2023 à 10 h 32
#229
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Quoting: Random2152
Anyway Bobs prospect ranking came out.

Jayden Perron at 50 has me salivating. Textbook Dubas pick. Short, extremely skilled, intelligent, highly productive, Chicago Steel player.

Want want want. He is the #1 reason ive been hesitant to argue in favour of trading our 1st this year


He sounds good but I would love a guy with some size too.
24 janv. 2023 à 11 h 38
#230
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McMann Holmberg Anderson 🤤🤤

Just as a fan, to see an all Marlie 4th line is for freakin sick
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24 janv. 2023 à 11 h 44
#231
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First they take Earl Schwartz, now Adam Bishop.

Two great hires, sucks now both won’t be covering the Leafs. They produced so much great content
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24 janv. 2023 à 11 h 48
#232
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
I would agree there is too much smoke out there talking about D. The only reason why I could possibly see something like this happening is, opening night roster:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Nylander-Tavares-Malgin
Engvall-Kerfoot-Jarnkrok
AstonReese-Kampf-AubeKubel

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Giordano-Sandin

They went into the season with Muzzin, fully expecting him to play in the top 4. Only once Liljegren injured (and Dalhstrom, Benn) did Sandin sign.

If Muzzin doesn’t get injured, once Liljegren was healthy, someone was getting moved.

My issue is, out of defensive pairings who have played over 300mins together (66 pairings) Sandin Liljegren - 1st in xG per 60 and 10th in xG against per 60 (they are ahead of Weager Tanev, Graves Marino, Martinez Pietrangelo) and some other really good groups.

I’m really scratching my head as to why on earth we need to fix:
Rielly Brodie
Sandin Liljegren
Giordano Holl

Now Brodie has been out for longer than expected, if he is a little more banged up than they are letting on, then I can understand the need for D.

The cost for Gavrikov is based off the David Savard trade (1st + 3rd + 4th) That’s a fireable offense for me if Kyle spends that on a D. Plus Gavrikov projected deal is for 5.5-6 on a 5-6 year deal, no thanks.

There have been enough posts with how Shiite our bottom six has been and power play have been during all of our 1st round exits.

Give me more scoring, my two cents.


I completely agree, it's just that if the Leafs want Meier, they are going to need to part with an asset like Sandin. As much as I like the idea in a vacuum, I would be pretty upset if we were to do it. I am still on the buy-low train. Guys like Garland are literally right there for the taking and won't cost an arm and a leg. If I were Dubas on deadline try, I would try my damnedest to stay away from sellers, the market is extremely beneficial towards them and they will squeeze you. I'd try to go and deal with middling, retooling teams like the Canucks. I hate going out and getting in a bidding war for the big fish, and trading Sandin would actually upset me considering he is an elite young defenseman. My main point is that there are options out there to replace Sandin if we were to move him. Still, I wouldn't approach the deadline in that way, just trying a different, more outlandish approach
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24 janv. 2023 à 11 h 49
#233
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Quoting: MatthewsFan




First they take Earl Schwartz, now Adam Bishop.

Two great hires, sucks now both won’t be covering the Leafs. They produced so much great content


I despise how well managed the Hurricanes are. Everything they do is just perfect (Minus the KK offersheet. I still hate that move). I could only wish the Leafs were as meticulously calculated as the Canes
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24 janv. 2023 à 11 h 53
#234
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I completely agree, it's just that if the Leafs want Meier, they are going to need to part with an asset like Sandin. As much as I like the idea in a vacuum, I would be pretty upset if we were to do it. I am still on the buy-low train. Guys like Garland are literally right there for the taking and won't cost an arm and a leg. If I were Dubas on deadline try, I would try my damnedest to stay away from sellers, the market is extremely beneficial towards them and they will squeeze you. I'd try to go and deal with middling, retooling teams like the Canucks. I hate going out and getting in a bidding war for the big fish, and trading Sandin would actually upset me considering he is an elite young defenseman. My main point is that there are options out there to replace Sandin if we were to move him. Still, I wouldn't approach the deadline in that way, just trying a different, more outlandish approach


Your not wrong, I could absolutely see Sandin being in play. Morgan Rielly is going nowhere, I believe the organization is very high on Rifai and Hofenmeyer. And to get Meier, you have to give to get, especially if teams like CAR and NJD have better prospects to offer (unless we use Knies).
24 janv. 2023 à 11 h 54
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I despise how well managed the Hurricanes are. Everything they do is just perfect (Minus the KK offersheet. I still hate that move). I could only wish the Leafs were as meticulously calculated as the Canes


If they decide to move on from Dubas, Tulsky is the only one I would want. Otherwise, stay the course with Kyle
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24 janv. 2023 à 11 h 55
#236
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Your not wrong, I could absolutely see Sandin being in play. Morgan Rielly is going nowhere, I believe the organization is very high on Rifai and Hofenmeyer. And to get Meier, you have to give to get, especially if teams like CAR and NJD have better prospects to offer (unless we use Knies).


Oh right, theres also Rifai. Im still not apart of the Trade Sandin club, but if it means Meier with an extension, then sure. I like Gavrikov as a replacement, but he is a pure rental for a playoff run, so the Savard price isn't going to fly. Find a temporary fix and then have Rifai up in the bigs next year.

My favourite part about these forms is seeing the sheer amount of possibilities we have. This team is so fun to analyze, and losing the guy who constructed it would be devestating
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24 janv. 2023 à 12 h 0
#237
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Oh right, theres also Rifai. Im still not apart of the Trade Sandin club, but if it means Meier with an extension, then sure. I like Gavrikov as a replacement, but he is a pure rental for a playoff run, so the Savard price isn't going to fly. Find a temporary fix and then have Rifai up in the bigs next year.

My favourite part about these forms is seeing the sheer amount of possibilities we have. This team is so fun to analyze, and losing the guy who constructed it would be devestating


So true and watch Dubas pull something off we never thought of lol
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24 janv. 2023 à 15 h 19
#238
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Holmberg is pretty god awful in the draws, I’m cool with him in the lineup but as a winger.

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Vrana - Tavares - Marner
Holmberg - Acciari - Jarnkrok
Engvall - Kampf - Sundqvist


I think found a name that might fit thus criteria

Curtis Lazar
24 janv. 2023 à 15 h 44
#239
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Quoting: Trickster
I think found a name that might fit thus criteria

Curtis Lazar


Don’t really think he brings anything we don’t already have in ZAR. He has a ton of hits and could fit on the 4th line I guess, I personally wouldn’t want him at 3C, even ignoring his numbers in VAN (1G 1A), last year with BOS he still only had 8G 8A. I kinda hope we aim higher for a 3C.
24 janv. 2023 à 16 h 17
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Don’t really think he brings anything we don’t already have in ZAR. He has a ton of hits and could fit on the 4th line I guess, I personally wouldn’t want him at 3C, even ignoring his numbers in VAN (1G 1A), last year with BOS he still only had 8G 8A. I kinda hope we aim higher for a 3C.


Curtis Lazar is just a physical Pking 4c/RW. I did consider him during FA but we got ZAR whose honestly done whats expected

What Toronto needs as u said is a 3c. A scoring 3rd line winger or two wouldnt hurt either

Like honestly wont come cheap Boone Jenner is my top candidate for 3c.

3.75mill for 3 more seasons after this

Has averaged over 50% on the faceoff circle multiple seasons

Consistent 30-40 point guy (rn 13 goals and 11 assists)

Plays a nice 2-way style and if necessary can also play left wing.
24 janv. 2023 à 16 h 19
#241
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Don’t really think he brings anything we don’t already have in ZAR. He has a ton of hits and could fit on the 4th line I guess, I personally wouldn’t want him at 3C, even ignoring his numbers in VAN (1G 1A), last year with BOS he still only had 8G 8A. I kinda hope we aim higher for a 3C.


I'd take Martinook who was on wavers at one point but better options cost more too.
24 janv. 2023 à 16 h 28
#242
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Quoting: Trickster
I'd take Martinook who was on wavers at one point but better options cost more too.


TBL the last few deadlines:

Hagel for 2023 and 2024 1st (had term)
Savard for 2021 1st (FA)
Goodrow for 2020 1st (had term)
Coleman for 2020 1st (had term)
Thats 2 cups & 3 final appearances

And they are pretty likely to add a physical D




We better be all ………………
chips-poker-chips.gif
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24 janv. 2023 à 16 h 30
#243
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
TBL the last few deadlines:

Hagel for 2023 and 2024 1st (had term)
Savard for 2021 1st (FA)
Goodrow for 2020 1st (had term)
Coleman for 2020 1st (had term)
Thats 2 cups & 3 final appearances

And they are pretty likely to add a physical D




We better be all ………………
chips-poker-chips.gif


I know a lot of people are hesitant to move our 2023 first round pick, but seeing how much value Dubas gets from his late draft picks / UDFA signings, Im not so worried. Plus, if we do decide to go the route of selling high on Samsonov's RFA rights over the summer, we could easily recoup a couple 2nd round picks or more.
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24 janv. 2023 à 16 h 32
#244
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I'm not someone that is particularly inclined to trade Sandin, but if he can be moved to be get a guy like Timo Meier and ensure we don't have to move Knies, I'd do it in a heartbeat. If we can go out and get Gavrikov and Meier, this team is a legit contender. It's SUPER unrealistic, but imagine:

To CBJ: Abruzzese, 2024 2nd Round Pick, 2023 3rd Round Pick
To TOR: Gavrikov, 2023 4th Round Pick

To SJS: Sandin, Hirvonen, 2023 1st Round Pick, 2024 1st Round Pick
To TOR: Meier (50% retained, extension agreed upon)

Meier - Matthews - Nylander
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Engvall - Player X (Maybe Bonino?)- Jarnkrok
Holmberg - Kampf - Kerfoot

Rielly - Liljegren
Gavrikov - Brodie (👀)
Giordano - Timmins


Wanted to circle back to this preposterous idea to go after someone other than Gavrikov: McCabe. Since Chicago is supposedly willing to retain 50% (something I didn't know yesterday), he is a fantastic target. Cost controlled guy who brings a ton to our blue line. Having him at 2 mil for 2.5 seasons would be huge. Then, if we do venture down the Sandin-trade route, we have a cheap option for a while.
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24 janv. 2023 à 16 h 39
#245
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Wanted to circle back to this preposterous idea to go after someone other than Gavrikov: McCabe. Since Chicago is supposedly willing to retain 50% (something I didn't know yesterday), he is a fantastic target. Cost controlled guy who brings a ton to our blue line. Having him at 2 mil for 2.5 seasons would be huge. Then, if we do venture down the Sandin-trade route, we have a cheap option for a while.


McCabe at 2mil would be awesome, it’s his injury history that scares me.
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24 janv. 2023 à 16 h 55
#246
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
TBL the last few deadlines:

Hagel for 2023 and 2024 1st (had term)
Savard for 2021 1st (FA)
Goodrow for 2020 1st (had term)
Coleman for 2020 1st (had term)
Thats 2 cups & 3 final appearances

And they are pretty likely to add a physical D




We better be all ………………
chips-poker-chips.gif


I feel one of Parise, Trenin or Kuzmenko is Tampa's target. Our benefit is they dont got a tonne of cap and from what a fan told me they want a shutdown guy to make a shutdown line as it seems their bottom 6 besides Paul has had some issues. Notably Colton
24 janv. 2023 à 16 h 59
#247
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
McCabe at 2mil would be awesome, it’s his injury history that scares me.


I just dont see the fit as hes a LD whose gonna play RD. Why not just go get a RD like Fabbro or something (Apparently Nashville looking to move him)

Now Fabbro's weakness is he cant move the puck but hey just throw him with Sandin who can were set

Still say Braun is the best option as he plays that style we need and should not cost much and with retention 500k caphit
24 janv. 2023 à 17 h 1
#248
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Wanted to circle back to this preposterous idea to go after someone other than Gavrikov: McCabe. Since Chicago is supposedly willing to retain 50% (something I didn't know yesterday), he is a fantastic target. Cost controlled guy who brings a ton to our blue line. Having him at 2 mil for 2.5 seasons would be huge. Then, if we do venture down the Sandin-trade route, we have a cheap option for a while.



Choose your own adventure:

Kerfoot + Sandin for Sam Bennett
2024 1st + Topi Niemelä for Jake McCabe (50% retention) + Max Domi

2025 4th to ARI 50% Max Domi

Bunting Matthews Marner
Domi Tavares Nylander
Holmberg Bennett Jarnkrok
McMann Kampf Engvall

Rielly Brodie
McCabe Holl
Giordano Liljegren

Timmins
ZAR

2023 roster Bunting 8x3.8

Bunting Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Nylander
Knies Bennett Jarnkrok
McMann Holmberg Steeves

Rielly Brodie
McCabe Liljegren
Giordano Timmins


Or

Kerfoot + 2024 1st + Minten for O’Rielly (50%) + Acciari

Holl for Donato

Gudas for 2023 3rd

Bunting Matthews Marner
Jarnkrok Tavares Nylander
Donato O’Rielly Acciari
McMann Kampf Engvall

Rielly Brodie
Sandin Liljegren
Giordano Gudas

2023 roster Leafs resign O’Rielly 4x5, Bunting 8x3.8

Bunting Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Nylander
Knies O’Rielly Jarnkrok
McMann Holmberg Steeves

Rielly Brodie
Sandin Liljegren
Giordano Timmins
24 janv. 2023 à 17 h 7
#249
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Going back to my Jenner post I did the math its do able

CBJ: 2023 1st + Kerfoot + Minten + Moldenhauer
TOR: Jenner

ANA: 2024 2nd + Hirvonen
TOR: Henrique 50%

PHI: Holl + 2024 4th (Know its a tad overpay but to gain cap do it)
TOR: Braun 50%

Bunting Matthews Nylander
Henrique-Tavares-Marner
Holmberg-Jenner-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-McMann

Rielly-Liligren
Gio-Brodie
Sandin-Braun

Extras: ZAR, Timmins, Benn

U get a top 6 whose very good (Henrique would honestly fit in well with JT and Marner)

Jenner would be a nice 3c upgrade for us

Braun just plays that style we want
24 janv. 2023 à 17 h 11
#250
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Quoting: aadoyle
Going back to my Jenner post I did the math its do able

CBJ: 2023 1st + Kerfoot + Minten
TOR: Jenner

Bunting Matthews Nylander
Henrique-Tavares-Marner
Holmberg-Jenner-Jarnkrok
Engvall-Kampf-McMann






I’ll be honest, the likelihood of Bennett being available is probably not high but I really can’t see them trading Jenner a year after naming him captain.
 
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