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Toronto Maple Leafs 2022 2023 Season Discussion (Part 3)

19 janv. 2023 à 21 h 21
#51
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Modifié 19 janv. 2023 à 21 h 34
Hope Liligren is okay need him with Brodie out
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19 janv. 2023 à 21 h 34
#52
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Leafs should play every team like they play WPG. Other than taking 2 bad penalties to give them a 5 on 3 pretty complete game.

Hopefully those 2 goals kickstart Matthews scoring again
19 janv. 2023 à 21 h 34
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So just play Samsonov at home from now on. He has a record of 12-0-1 in 13 games with a goals against average of 1.34 and a save percentage of .954 at home this season.

Also, WPG is a very good team. They really took it to us
19 janv. 2023 à 22 h 13
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Modifié 19 janv. 2023 à 22 h 25
Quoting: Nathaniel




yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes






"not a rental"

Would you rather have Nylander or Meier? I highly doubt the Leafs have the assets to acquire Meier in the first place, and can't see us moving Nylander. That being said, if we were to hypothetically make a trade for Meier (Knies, 1st, +) and work out an extension in the ~7.9 to ~8.5 range and then trade Nylander to a team like Nashville for Tomasino ++, would you say no? Meier is younger than Nylander by a few months, contributes more defensively, and plays a style that is more appealing to the Leafs. Moving Nylander for a highly touted, NHL ready prospect on an ELC also allows us to resign Samsonov.

I doubt there will be sweeping changes like this, but what do you think of a roster consisting of:

Meier - Matthews - Tomasino
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Player X - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
McMann - Kampf - Player X

Rielly - Brodie
Sandin - Liljegren
Giordano - Timmins

Samsonov
Murray
Woll

7th Defenseman
13th Forward
19 janv. 2023 à 22 h 29
#55
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Quoting: Nathaniel




"not a rental"

Would you rather have Nylander or Meier? I highly doubt the Leafs have the assets to acquire Meier in the first place, and can't see us moving Nylander. That being said, if we were to hypothetically make a trade for Meier (Knies, 1st, +) and work out an extension in the ~7.9 to ~8.5 range and then trade Nylander to a team like Nashville for Tomasino ++, would you say no? Meier is younger than Nylander by a few months, contributes more defensively, and plays a style that is more appealing to the Leafs. Moving Nylander for a highly touted, NHL ready prospect on an ELC also allows us to resign Samsonov.

I doubt there will be sweeping changes like this, but what do you think of a roster consisting of:

Meier - Matthews - Tomasino
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Player X - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
McMann - Kampf - Player X

Rielly - Brodie
Sandin - Liljegren
Giordano - Timmins

Samsonov
Murray
Woll

7th Defenseman
13th Forward


I think I said that scenario and people got mad at me for it lul. But yea the only way to keep Meier would be to move on from Nylander. So a choice would need to be made if they decide to to it

As for the idea. I dont see McMann being on the playoff roster. Holmberg maybe but I see Dubas adding guys and moving on from Kerfoot
19 janv. 2023 à 22 h 31
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Quoting: aadoyle
I think I said that scenario and people got mad at me for it lul. But yea the only way to keep Meier would be to move on from Nylander. So a choice would need to be made if they decide to to it

As for the idea. I dont see McMann being on the playoff roster. Holmberg maybe but I see Dubas adding guys and moving on from Kerfoot


My mock roster there is supposed to depict next year. Leafs would be able to keep both Meier and Nylander for a run and then make a choice from there
19 janv. 2023 à 22 h 35
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Quoting: Nathaniel
My mock roster there is supposed to depict next year. Leafs would be able to keep both Meier and Nylander for a run and then make a choice from there


Interesting, but yea as mentioned

Adding Meier would technically be an all in and if they lose then u can technically move on from one of the big 4 and have the replacement already signed

Then with Nylander turn him into good depth pieces for the bottom 6 (if necessary)

Seems like a win/win dont know why some people were so negative as it fits both scenarios people play out

Oh well im leaving it up to the GM. To me if Boston does go get Horvat u got to go get Meier. If not then explore all options before fully committing.
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19 janv. 2023 à 22 h 39
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Quoting: aadoyle
Interesting, but yea as mentioned

Adding Meier would technically be an all in and if they lose then u can technically move on from one of the big 4 and have the replacement already signed

Then with Nylander turn him into good depth pieces for the bottom 6 (if necessary)

Seems like a win/win dont know why some people were so negative as it fits both scenarios people play out


Yeah, honestly I wouldn't mind moving Nylander if we have Meier signed, especially if a Tomasino-like player is the return. Its a shame Buffalo is a divisional rival because Kulich would be a nice get. I know we've said this for years, but you've gotta think something is going to change if the Leafs come up short again, and I feel like it won't be a managerial change. Having Meier, Nylander, Matthews, Marner, and Tavares for a run would be huge, and then afterwards you can move Meier / Nylander for a young forward and picks. If I were Dubas, thats the route I would explore. Sell high on Knies, lock up a great top 6 forward long term, and recoup futures.
19 janv. 2023 à 22 h 42
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Yeah, honestly I wouldn't mind moving Nylander if we have Meier signed, especially if a Tomasino-like player is the return. Its a shame Buffalo is a divisional rival because Kulich would be a nice get. I know we've said this for years, but you've gotta think something is going to change if the Leafs come up short again, and I feel like it won't be a managerial change. Having Meier, Nylander, Matthews, Marner, and Tavares for a run would be huge, and then afterwards you can move Meier / Nylander for a young forward and picks. If I were Dubas, thats the route I would explore. Sell high on Knies, lock up a great top 6 forward long term, and recoup futures.


I feel u could probs keep Knies and still make a Timo Meier trade. As if u sent 2 1sts + one or both of Niemela and Minten probs could get it done
19 janv. 2023 à 22 h 58
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Quoting: aadoyle
I feel u could probs keep Knies and still make a Timo Meier trade. As if u sent 2 1sts + one or both of Niemela and Minten probs could get it done


I really like Knies, but his attitude does slightly concern me. Plus, Meier fills in our need for a physical winger and would be signed for a while
19 janv. 2023 à 23 h 1
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Modifié 19 janv. 2023 à 23 h 7
Quoting: Nathaniel
I really like Knies, but his attitude does slightly concern me. Plus, Meier fills in our need for a physical winger and would be signed for a while


I dont really see any attitude issue with Knies. He plays the style of game Leafs have been craving since Hyman left. If u can have both do it.

Like if he had attitude issues we would have heard it in the Olympics, WJC, etc. But if were referring to when he found out about the Chicago and decided to spend another year in College **** I dont blame him as he would have been involved in a bad trade. Plus his team got better and has a chance at a championship so do that then come play in the NHL
19 janv. 2023 à 23 h 6
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Quoting: aadoyle
I dont really see any attitude issue with Knies. He plays the style of game Leafs have been craving since Hyman left. If u can have both do it.

Like if he had attitude issues we would have heard it in the Olympics, WJC, etc. But if were referring to when he found out about the Chicago **** I dont blame him as he would have been involved in a bad trade.


Fair enough. I really like Knies, but I also think he would be a must for a target as high profile as Meier
19 janv. 2023 à 23 h 8
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Fair enough. I really like Knies, but I also think he would be a must for a target as high profile as Meier


I feel u could persuade SJS into another prospect/s Like if u sent 2 1sts + Minten and maybe Hirvonen dont see why they would say no. As its basically a high 2nd rounder who you could equate to a late 1st in potential redrafts and 2 1sts

And with Minten's recent projection card man things could be interesting (Has the potential to be Buchnevich 2.0 on his current development)
20 janv. 2023 à 0 h 32
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I would freaking love to get Donato out of SEA. He is a ufa at the end of the year, cheap contract, and with the addition of Tolvanen he might actually be available.

His goals/per60 is right there with M. Tkachuk, Verhaeghe, Konecny, Connor. Some legit players
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20 janv. 2023 à 0 h 46
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Modifié 20 janv. 2023 à 0 h 54
Quoting: MatthewsFan




I would freaking love to get Donato out of SEA. He is a ufa at the end of the year, cheap contract, and with the addition of Tolvanen he might actually be available.

His goals/per60 is right there with M. Tkachuk, Verhaeghe, Konecny, Connor. Some legit players


Hes so streaky though. I worry he has good year comes then we get Ritchie 2.0

Like before this year he was alright and now doing great but my concern is the above.

I want someone we all know is just consistent like Jesper Fast = Good speedy 2-way defensive wing
20 janv. 2023 à 0 h 53
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Quoting: MatthewsFan




I would freaking love to get Donato out of SEA. He is a ufa at the end of the year, cheap contract, and with the addition of Tolvanen he might actually be available.

His goals/per60 is right there with M. Tkachuk, Verhaeghe, Konecny, Connor. Some legit players


I really wanted him in the offseason. Havent seen much of him this year but I loved his play last season
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20 janv. 2023 à 0 h 57
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Quoting: aadoyle
Hes so streaky though. I worry he has good year comes then we get Ritchie 2.0

Like before this year he was alright and now doing great but my concern is the above.

I want someone we all know is just consistent like Jesper Fast = Good speedy 2-way defensive wing


Quoting: Nathaniel
I really wanted him in the offseason. Havent seen much of him this year but I loved his play last season


There is a lot to like with him, especially for some added bottom six scoring. He can play some C too (31-33).
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20 janv. 2023 à 8 h 10
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Quoting: aadoyle
Gonna have to show with numbers why your wrong

TBL

Nick Paul 16G 9A 25 points
Ross Colton 9G 9A 18 points
Corey Perry 6G 10A 16 points
Namestnikov 3G 6A 9 points
Maroon 2G 5A 7 points
Bellemare 2G 4A 6 points
Balcers 3G 2A 5 points

86 points


BOS

Coyle 10G 15A 25 points
Zacha 7G 22A 29 points
Foligno 6G 13A 19 points
Frederic 10G 8A 18 points
Nosek 3G 5A 8 points
Smith 2G 4A 6 points
AJ Greer 4G 4A 8 points

113 points

TML

Kerfoot 7 goals 13 assists 20 points
Engvall 9 goals 7 assists 16 points
Kampf 4 goals 11 assists 15 points
Holmberg 4 goals 7 assists 11 points
ZAR 4 goals 2 assist 6 points
Hunt 3 goals 0 assists 3 points
Nick Robertson (inj) 2 goals and 3 assists 5 points

76 points

And im being generous putting NR in there. If hes not next guys Simmonds with 1 assist.


so we do need a 2nd line LW, that bumps jarnkrok down and puts our bottom 6 right in between those two teams bottom 6's
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20 janv. 2023 à 9 h 39
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Quoting: leafs101
so we do need a 2nd line LW, that bumps jarnkrok down and puts our bottom 6 right in between those two teams bottom 6's



Just moving Jarnkrok down into the lineup still does not change much.

In 21 games playing in the bottom 6, Jarnkrok had 6 points playing with a combination of Engvall, Kerfoot, and Holmberg.

In the 18 games since he was moved up into the 2nd line with Tavares and Marner, he has 15 points. Playing with skill players can have this effect.

So sure, if we are adding a new top 6 LW and two more bottom 6 offensive players. That would hopefully work.

As I said before, I would really like to see a McMann Holmberg Jarnkrok line to see if any is there.

But just moving Jarnkrok down isn’t helping. I really like the player, but I like him a hell of a lot more with skill players. And if that is the case, just keep him with Tavares and Marner.


This team needs a 3rd line C more than a top 6 LW. The ideal player would be one that can play both.

For ****s and giggles, let’s look at the 3rd lines of the past Cup winners:

COL - Burakovsky Compher NAK
TBL - Coleman Gourde Goodrow
TBL - Coleman Gourde Goodrow
STL - Steen Barbashev Sundqvist
WSH - Burakovsky Eller Connelly
PIT - Wilson Bonino Hornqvist
PIT - Hagelin Bonino Kessel

Leafs have used:
Kerfoot Kampf Engvall
Engvall Holmberg Jarnkrok
McMann Kampf Engvall


We need a better 3rd line
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20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 3
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Just moving Jarnkrok down into the lineup still does not change much.

In 21 games playing in the bottom 6, Jarnkrok had 6 points playing with a combination of Engvall, Kerfoot, and Holmberg.

In the 18 games since he was moved up into the 2nd line with Tavares and Marner, he has 15 points. Playing with skill players can have this effect.

So sure, if we are adding a new top 6 LW and two more bottom 6 offensive players. That would hopefully work.

As I said before, I would really like to see a McMann Holmberg Jarnkrok line to see if any is there.

But just moving Jarnkrok down isn’t helping. I really like the player, but I like him a hell of a lot more with skill players. And if that is the case, just keep him with Tavares and Marner.


This team needs a 3rd line C more than a top 6 LW. The ideal player would be one that can play both.

For ****s and giggles, let’s look at the 3rd lines of the past Cup winners:

COL - Burakovsky Compher NAK
TBL - Coleman Gourde Goodrow
TBL - Coleman Gourde Goodrow
STL - Steen Barbashev Sundqvist
WSH - Burakovsky Eller Connelly
PIT - Wilson Bonino Hornqvist
PIT - Hagelin Bonino Kessel

Leafs have used:
Kerfoot Kampf Engvall
Engvall Holmberg Jarnkrok
McMann Kampf Engvall


We need a better 3rd line


By the looks of things, I guess we need Burakovky 😂

I'm still a firm believer in acquiring Garland. He gives us so much flexibility with our forward group. A lineup with him could look very nice

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Jarnkrok - Tavares - Marner
Garland - Kampf - Engvall
Aston Reese - Holmberg - Player X
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20 janv. 2023 à 10 h 23
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Quoting: Nathaniel
By the looks of things, I guess we need Burakovky 😂

I'm still a firm believer in acquiring Garland. He gives us so much flexibility with our forward group. A lineup with him could look very nice

Bunting - Matthews - Nylander
Jarnkrok - Tavares - Marner
Garland - Kampf - Engvall
Aston Reese - Holmberg - Player X


I love Kampf but he can’t be a 3C
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20 janv. 2023 à 11 h 40
#72
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
I love Kampf but he can’t be a 3C


Funny you should mention that because I strongly debated between him and someone else there, but I think he definitely could be. He looked incredible last year against Tampa. His shorthanded goal against Vasi was insane. Having a guy like him playing with two wingers that can chip in quite well defensively while also driving offense could help his production
20 janv. 2023 à 12 h 12
#73
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Just moving Jarnkrok down into the lineup still does not change much.

In 21 games playing in the bottom 6, Jarnkrok had 6 points playing with a combination of Engvall, Kerfoot, and Holmberg.

In the 18 games since he was moved up into the 2nd line with Tavares and Marner, he has 15 points. Playing with skill players can have this effect.

So sure, if we are adding a new top 6 LW and two more bottom 6 offensive players. That would hopefully work.

As I said before, I would really like to see a McMann Holmberg Jarnkrok line to see if any is there.

But just moving Jarnkrok down isn’t helping. I really like the player, but I like him a hell of a lot more with skill players. And if that is the case, just keep him with Tavares and Marner.


This team needs a 3rd line C more than a top 6 LW. The ideal player would be one that can play both.

For ****s and giggles, let’s look at the 3rd lines of the past Cup winners:

COL - Burakovsky Compher NAK
TBL - Coleman Gourde Goodrow
TBL - Coleman Gourde Goodrow
STL - Steen Barbashev Sundqvist
WSH - Burakovsky Eller Connelly
PIT - Wilson Bonino Hornqvist
PIT - Hagelin Bonino Kessel

Leafs have used:
Kerfoot Kampf Engvall
Engvall Holmberg Jarnkrok
McMann Kampf Engvall


We need a better 3rd line


Yep. Like look what Tampa did went and got Coleman and Goodrow and created a third line that caused headaches and fear

https://jfresh.substack.com/p/what-makes-the-lightnings-third-line

If Dubas can go do the same give up 2-3 1sts idk just make sure they aint rentals lul

Like some people think the solution is just drop Jarnkrok and bring a true top 6 LW. Trust me that wont change a thing.

We need one big move and 2-3 smaller ones to solidify this team come playoffs.
20 janv. 2023 à 12 h 32
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Quoting: aadoyle
Gonna have to show with numbers why your wrong

TBL

Nick Paul 16G 9A 25 points
Ross Colton 9G 9A 18 points
Corey Perry 6G 10A 16 points
Namestnikov 3G 6A 9 points
Maroon 2G 5A 7 points
Bellemare 2G 4A 6 points
Balcers 3G 2A 5 points

86 points


BOS

Coyle 10G 15A 25 points
Zacha 7G 22A 29 points
Foligno 6G 13A 19 points
Frederic 10G 8A 18 points
Nosek 3G 5A 8 points
Smith 2G 4A 6 points
AJ Greer 4G 4A 8 points

113 points

TML

Kerfoot 7 goals 13 assists 20 points
Engvall 9 goals 7 assists 16 points
Kampf 4 goals 11 assists 15 points
Holmberg 4 goals 7 assists 11 points
ZAR 4 goals 2 assist 6 points
Hunt 3 goals 0 assists 3 points
Nick Robertson (inj) 2 goals and 3 assists 5 points

76 points

And im being generous putting NR in there. If hes not next guys Simmonds with 1 assist.


Do you think it might be worth considering not bringing back Kampf next year? Especially at 2 million or more of cap hit?

We know he brings a good defensive game but man forking over 2 million for his production seems like a tough pill to swallow
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20 janv. 2023 à 12 h 33
#75
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Quoting: Nathaniel
Funny you should mention that because I strongly debated between him and someone else there, but I think he definitely could be. He looked incredible last year against Tampa. His shorthanded goal against Vasi was insane. Having a guy like him playing with two wingers that can chip in quite well defensively while also driving offense could help his production



He has 2 goals in his last 39 games. He has 0 points in the month of Jan, 5 points in Dec, 5 points in the month of Nov, and 4 points in the month of Oct.

These are numbers of a 4C. Which he is perfectly suited for. For me, I’m just tired of having players on this roster play in elevated roles, forcing square pegs into round holes.

Like, wouldn’t this be a more dynamic and balanced roster:

Matthews - Matthews - Matthews - Matthews
Tavares - Tavares - Tavares - Tavares
O’Rielly - Henrique - Toews - Laughton
Kampf - Kampf - Kampf - Kampf

And in my dreams:
Matthews
Tavares
Bennett
Kampf

I don’t want to take anything away from your thoughts of having Kampf at 3C, but for me, we absolutely need a play driving 3C and I’ll die on this hill.

This is what we have to prepare for and we sure as **** now they both will be adding to their rosters.

FmtMT_AXoAEJDJ8?format=jpg&name=medium

FmtLviAXoBMHcSU?format=jpg&name=medium

I’ll take Kampf matching up against Bellemare and Nosek any day of the week. But I would take Coyle and Paul over Kampf at 3C.
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