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Reposting SEA-COL Trade From Avs Perspective

Créé par: UpsideDownQue
Équipe: 2022-23 Avalanche du Colorado
Date de création initiale: 26 déc. 2022
Publié: 26 déc. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Its a pretty big trade to make in-season but imo it covers all of the Avs needs now and also gives them some security at 2C for 2 more seasons after this

Showing lines when 100% healthy
Transactions
COL
  1. Gourde, Yanni
  2. Soucy, Carson (1 375 000 $ retained)
  3. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (SEA)
SEA
  1. Girard, Samuel
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (COL)
Détails additionnels:
Based on @Db1899's trade but I added some retention on Soucy to balance out the cap better for this season
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2023
Logo de SEA
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
2024
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
2025
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2382 500 000 $82 094 166 $25 000 $3 350 000 $405 834 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 5
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
6 300 000 $6 300 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
9 250 000 $9 250 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 3
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
7 000 000 $7 000 000 $
AG, C
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo de Kraken de Seattle
5 166 666 $5 166 666 $
C, AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
6 125 000 $6 125 000 $
AD, AG
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
908 333 $908 333 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
C, AG
RFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
C, AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
1 050 000 $1 050 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 3
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
AG
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
4 100 000 $4 100 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
9 000 000 $9 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 5
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
G
UFA - 3
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance2 500 000 $$2M)
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de Kraken de Seattle
1 375 000 $1 375 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
762 500 $762 500 $
DG/DD
UFA - 2
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
987 500 $987 500 $
DG/DD, AG
UFA - 2
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
750 000 $750 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1

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27 déc. 2022 à 0 h 6
#1
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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If Seattle is going to make a playoff push, I can't see them making this deal. You have them trading two good regulars for one. Now Gourde trade in the summer could be a possibility.
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27 déc. 2022 à 0 h 8
#2
Alex Bump Truther
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I fear AV's fans will blast you on this. But I agree with you its makes sense in terms of roster needs.

My only concern is the Cap will be very tight.
27 déc. 2022 à 0 h 14
#3
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Quoting: palhal
If Seattle is going to make a playoff push, I can't see them making this deal. You have them trading two good regulars for one. Now Gourde trade in the summer could be a possibility.


Thats probably true, a trade this size is better suited for the offseason anyway
27 déc. 2022 à 0 h 17
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Quoting: ARMCHAIRGMOFTHEYEAR
I fear AV's fans will blast you on this. But I agree with you its makes sense in terms of roster needs.

My only concern is the Cap will be very tight.


They probably will but its pretty clearly an upgrade imo. Gourde > Girard right now and Soucy > nothing. The only downside is the Avs are sending away futures which would be nice to have as ELCs in the coming years. I kinda dont mind that though with a big cap increase projected a couple years from now. Ideally Id like to send the 2024 pick instead of 2023 but I just left the pieces the same as in @Db1899 's AGM
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27 déc. 2022 à 0 h 39
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Quoting: UpsideDownQue
They probably will but its pretty clearly an upgrade imo. Gourde > Girard right now and Soucy > nothing. The only downside is the Avs are sending away futures which would be nice to have as ELCs in the coming years. I kinda dont mind that though with a big cap increase projected a couple years from now. Ideally Id like to send the 2024 pick instead of 2023 but I just left the pieces the same as in Db1899 's AGM


Clearly a downgrade in most Avs fans opinions. You're on your own here I think kiddo.
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27 déc. 2022 à 0 h 45
#6
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Downgrading picks, taking on more cap for a 32 year old player isn’t the best use of trading girard

The whole idea moving girard this offseason is to spread the cap depth around while getting younger cheaper players to fill roles. Not taking an older player with little term left and adding cap.

moving girard is fine in the offseason but this target makes 0 sense. This makes the avs worse, not better bc they lost of draft capital, taking on cap and getting older,
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27 déc. 2022 à 1 h 23
#7
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Modifié 27 déc. 2022 à 1 h 30
Quoting: TJTwolf
Clearly a downgrade in most Avs fans opinions. You're on your own here I think kiddo.


Maybe value wise Avs fans don't like it but it's very clearly a roster upgrade this season at the expense of picks and age

Ask neutral fans and I think the majority will agree it's an upgrade, but the Avs fanbase really seem to overrated Girard (the upside is there and it's legit but based on his poor performance this season and last season I don't see how you can justify Girard making a team better than having both Gourde and Soucy)
27 déc. 2022 à 1 h 45
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Quoting: coga16
Downgrading picks, taking on more cap for a 32 year old player isn’t the best use of trading girard

The whole idea moving girard this offseason is to spread the cap depth around while getting younger cheaper players to fill roles. Not taking an older player with little term left and adding cap.

moving girard is fine in the offseason but this target makes 0 sense. This makes the avs worse, not better bc they lost of draft capital, taking on cap and getting older,


Downgrading picks and getting older is the tradeoff you have to make in order to improve the roster now. You aren't going to keep picks, get younger players, and improve all in 1 trade or else there's nothing in it for the other team

Saying it makes 0 sense is a bit of an exaggeration, it's a very clear roster upgrade this season at the expense of future assets and age. Gourde and Soucy both have strong analytics which the Avs seem to put a lot of weight into and Gourde is under contract for 2 more years after this one so its not like it's pure rentals while completely ignoring the future. The cap difference between Girard and Gourde is negligible and worth it to get the better player who also plays a position of need
27 déc. 2022 à 2 h 9
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Quoting: UpsideDownQue
Maybe value wise Avs fans don't like it but it's very clearly a roster upgrade this season at the expense of picks and age

Ask neutral fans and I think the majority will agree it's an upgrade, but the Avs fanbase really seem to overrated Girard (the upside is there and it's legit but based on his poor performance this season and last season I don't see how you can justify Girard making a team better than having both Gourde and Soucy)


Yep, a lot is in the difference in how you value Girard compared to most Avs fans (and many neutrals). I just think it's a knee jerk reaction, and the Avs would come to regret it.

I should add that I never really liked the Kadri trade and look how that eventually turned out, so what do I know? LOL!
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27 déc. 2022 à 2 h 39
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Quoting: TJTwolf
Yep, a lot is in the difference in how you value Girard compared to most Avs fans (and many neutrals). I just think it's a knee jerk reaction, and the Avs would come to regret it.

I should add that I never really liked the Kadri trade and look how that eventually turned out, so what do I know? LOL!


Yeah fair enough. We're all just guessing values here as armchair GMs anyway and the hockey world can be shocked at the value of real trades too. I think too many people get bent out of shape about trade value on this site even though we don't really have the best idea of how real GMs value players (see the trade value polls on this site eg Lundkvist for 1st, Bjorkstrand for mid round picks, Bear for 5th, etc). This site is just for fun after all
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27 déc. 2022 à 4 h 5
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Quoting: UpsideDownQue
Yeah fair enough. We're all just guessing values here as armchair GMs anyway and the hockey world can be shocked at the value of real trades too. I think too many people get bent out of shape about trade value on this site even though we don't really have the best idea of how real GMs value players (see the trade value polls on this site eg Lundkvist for 1st, Bjorkstrand for mid round picks, Bear for 5th, etc). This site is just for fun after all


I think there's a tendency to get bent out of shape at the repetitive stuff that simply doesn't really work (Horvat) or is plain silly (Monahan/Drouin et al for the '23 1st). This at least has some merit and is a reasonable idea, but yeah we'd all do well to chill about it a bit more than we do (me included lol).
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27 déc. 2022 à 10 h 6
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Modifié 27 déc. 2022 à 10 h 12
Quoting: UpsideDownQue
Downgrading picks and getting older is the tradeoff you have to make in order to improve the roster now. You aren't going to keep picks, get younger players, and improve all in 1 trade or else there's nothing in it for the other team

Saying it makes 0 sense is a bit of an exaggeration, it's a very clear roster upgrade this season at the expense of future assets and age. Gourde and Soucy both have strong analytics which the Avs seem to put a lot of weight into and Gourde is under contract for 2 more years after this one so its not like it's pure rentals while completely ignoring the future. The cap difference between Girard and Gourde is negligible and worth it to get the better player who also plays a position of need


there is other ways to upgrade the roster what dont sacrifice girard and the 2023 1st. Adam Henrique just as an example, who every ducks fans claim and that has been backed up with reports that ducks would retain 50% on him.. That is why I say it makes 0 Sense. there are other ways to upgrade that arent as drastic in trading asset wise.

and I disagree the cap difference is negligible, the avs are going to be so tight against the cap next year if it only goes up 1m to 83.5m. every 100k will matter.
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27 déc. 2022 à 12 h 18
#13
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Quoting: coga16
there is other ways to upgrade the roster what dont sacrifice girard and the 2023 1st. Adam Henrique just as an example, who every ducks fans claim and that has been backed up with reports that ducks would retain 50% on him.. That is why I say it makes 0 Sense. there are other ways to upgrade that arent as drastic in trading asset wise.

and I disagree the cap difference is negligible, the avs are going to be so tight against the cap next year if it only goes up 1m to 83.5m. every 100k will matter.


I like the Henrique trade more than this too but that doesn't mean any other 2C trade makes 0 sense. It's worth looking into different options instead of just posting the same Henrique trade on here multiple times - that's the whole point of AGM

Yes every 100k matters but It's a lot easier to find a 3LD for 100k less than it is to find a 2C. When the upgrade is as big as this I wouldn't be worried over that small of a cap difference
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27 déc. 2022 à 12 h 26
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Quoting: UpsideDownQue
I like the Henrique trade more than this too but that doesn't mean any other 2C trade makes 0 sense. It's worth looking into different options instead of just posting the same Henrique trade on here multiple times - that's the whole point of AGM

Yes every 100k matters but It's a lot easier to find a 3LD for 100k less than it is to find a 2C. When the upgrade is as big as this I wouldn't be worried over that small of a cap difference


Looking into a gourde trade isn’t a bad idea it at this framework I am struggling to see the net positives.

Imo for this is have legs, a third team would be involved to retain on gourde to make it viable

Him at 5.1m aav, the same issues remains. Not enough cap space available to have better depth.
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27 déc. 2022 à 13 h 7
#15
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I don't recall if I did an acgm or just mentioned it in the comments, but I had the thought of overpay for a retained Gourde in the offseason (Ala the Hagel trade). That would have been beneficial because the team gets a 2C/3C if Newhook steps up without losing anyone.

That aside, I like that you have Soucy coming back to fill the hole left by Girard leaving. However, I don't like losing Girard for only one year of Soucy and Gourde at a reasonable but not great contract.

I'd prefer to try and get Toews, Hayes, or Henrique. It's certainly not an awful trade, but it's a bit too much interim term for a Girard trade imo. If the team moves him, I really hope it's for other longer term assets. But like I said, it's not too bad and certainly at least worth some thought.
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