I get the OP is wishing that they had him, but my point is not to worry about it because they don't need him. Having him would just be a luxury. We can't really compare him to Amirov (with his career being derailed by cancer ) to say that Schneider was the better pick at the time. So, I looked at it from the perspective of what they had in the line up/system at the time and how it turned out.

You're not going to convince me that Schneider is an upgrade over Brodie at this point of their careers, and you're claiming that he's an upgrade over Liljegren and Holl. We agree that Holl isn't a legit top 4 D but for Schneider to be an upgrade on him he's going to have to be able to play heavy minutes, particularly on the PK. Holl is likely gone after this season but it's not like they would have got rid of him if they had Schneider. Finally, there's Liljegren who Schneider may be better than now -I don't see how Schneider is better- but he too has the potential to be a legit top 4 D. So, how much of an upgrade is Schneider over Liljegren anyways?

I agree, Dubas has changed a bit in recent years and is definitely more open to getting gritty/defensive guys. I mean look at Torontos bottom 6 lol, all defensive specialists. He might have even gone too far as the bottom 6 now kinda sucks at scoring, but the top 6 is so good at it that it’s probably fine.

No one knew Amirov was going to get cancer and so obviously we can’t blame anyone for how things have turned out, but even at the time, I wasn’t a huge fan of the move. It sucks that he won’t be able to reach his potential. I hope he recovers and makes the NHL one day.

PS:based on how Torontos defense is doing, Schneider is uneeded. Might be in the lineup over Holl or Timmins if he falls back down to earth but that’s about it. The best pick in hindsight is probably Mercer.

So you keep saying things that no one else is disputing… are you mentally ok? I’ve never once said Schneider is better than Brodie?!?! Or an upgrade to him.. I’m not sure if you’re discussing that with someone else but to be clear, I’ve never said such things. As for lilj, let’s for your sake, say he is definitely better than Schneider.. Schneider is still the best option at 3RD over Timmins, holl, anyone else.. so when we say he is an upgrade to what they have today it just means that he is better than your 6th D. Not better than all of your D to be clear with you. Only better than at least 1 of your D that is currently on the roster. I hope this is clear and easy for you to understand. Now to reiterate what I said before… never said he was a “NEED”, just an upgrade and a “nice to have”. As the OP stated above, this isn’t about a player being sick, just what he wished happened. If said player was healthy he could very well be a 40 goal scorer or possibly a dud of a draft pick. We may never know unfortunately. Amirov might have been the better pick. But it’s possible he wasn’t(health stuff aside).

You made a general statement that Schneider is an upgrade on what they have and implied that he would be an upgrade on Holl and Liljegren. So I mentioned all the regulars on the right side including Brodie to be thorough because I'm looking at this from the 2020 draft, the now, and in the future not just hindsight. I'm not sure why you think everything that I'm saying is supposed to be a rebuttal to something that you did not dispute. I assumed that you were implying that Schneider was an upgrade over Liljegren, so I gave you that and asked how much of an upgrade would he be? Now you made it clear that it's Holl/Timmins, but Schneider plays 15 minutes a night, is he really suited for 18 minutes and being on the top PKing line?

Again, I never said that you said the Leafs need Schneider. The OP is saying that Schneider filled a need at the time of the draft and instead the Leafs went for "the best player" (he clearly stated that in a previous version that was deleted and he says it here too "If everyone remembered Leaf fans and media alike, wanted Schneider to be Drafted because he fit so many of the Leafs current needs, a big skilled Rhd Dman." So, my point is that there was no reason for the Leafs to have drafted Schneider if they didn't need him as they did not consider him to be "the best player" available. To be clear, I don't think the OP believes that Amirov was the best player. Would it have been nice to have him? Yes, but why would they use their 1st round pick for a luxury unless he's the best player available? In the future, there is definitely a spot where Schneider could have fit if they had him, I'm not disputing that.

The way I see it, the Leafs resigned Holl before the 2020 Draft and the 2020 Draft toke place BEFORE the Brodie signing and Sandin/Liljegren were still a Marlie, so the Leafs Defense did not look like this at the time of the 2020 Draft.

So Drafting Schneider would have been Holl's replacement, Would have taken 3 years to development Schneider and Holl resigned for 3 years, it all added up.

The Leafs already had another small skilled LW'er who they had high hopes for Drafted 1 year earlier, Robertson (along with a few other similar forwards in the system; SDA, Abruzzese, Abramov, Holmberg, Engvall), so Amirov, an admittedly long term project, was just being added to a logjam in the pipeline. Add to that logjam, the Leafs Drafted another small skilled, long term project, forward in the 2020 2nd Rd, with Hirvonen.

At the time the Leafs dmen prospect were super thin (behind Sandin and Liljegren in 2020) was Kral, Duszak and Hollowell. Durzi was traded in 2019, so don't mention him.

It's true that they didn't have Brodie yet, but Schneider wasn't going to fill that void anyways since he wasn't NHL-ready when he was drafted. So for sure, the Leafs knew they needed to acquire a top 4 D via trade or FA.

It's fair to say the prospect pool was thin for defense but the same could have been said for the forwards (Who do they have now who wasn't drafted after 2020 for the forwards?). They at least did have Sandin on the left and Liljegren on the right. As for Amirov being a long-term project, that isn't necessarily a bad thing considering that they knew there was going to be a flat cap for a while. They signed him in 2021, so I think the idea was that by the time he burns his ELC, he could be resigned for another 2 or 3 years on a 900K deal and he would be close to ready to step into the NHL and his low cap hit would help them out eventually if he lived up to the potential.

Double.

The thing with the summer of the Brodie signing, Dubas was shopping for a Rh'd Top 4 Dman, but had to settled for another Lh'd with Brodie.

It ain't easy being a GM during the Draft, so many discussions and arguments and options and stress and worry about whether the player will fit into your team and how long the development will take and the pure luck whether you get a stud or dud.

I like variety and at the time Dubas was stuck in the small, fast, skilled Euro or American born players mind sight.

Dubas has not Drafted many Canadians. Not that it matters, my view is that North American players development faster to the Nhl gameplay compared to teenagers trained on the larger oversea ice rinks.

The fancy dangles they do on the larger ice rinks will get them killed in North America because their is less space and time to think. The bigger, stronger and meaner players in North America will scare most Euro youngsters and slow their development.

Willy Nylander is an example of that. His early years as a Leaf he was (and arguable still is) that type of player.

Yeah, he was looking for a RHD RD but he ended up with a LHD RD, so it is what it is. You are right about the type of players that Dubas drafts being of one variety, but his goal is to draft high-end talent in the draft, which often equates to smaller skill players based off where they go in the draft.

As for your take on Nylander, it's not accurate at all. 1) His early years, he was right there with Matthews and Marner, he didn't fall off until the year that he sat out. 2) Nylander is like Kessel in that he doesn't put his body on the line which is why Kessel has the iron streak. However, the difference is that Nylander allowing the other guy to get the puck to avoid the play isn't just a selfish play. He often gains possession by stick-checking the opponent and that's why he has so many takeaways vs his giveaways. I'll post a clip for you here (https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/william-nylander-proves-can-play-hard-puck/) but recently I believe it was in the Tampa game, his stick check led to a goal.