Forums/Armchair-GM

Get rid of 3rd line

Créé par: pensfan21
Date de création initiale: 29 nov. 2022
Publié: 29 nov. 2022
Équipe: 2022-23 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Description
Might not be realistic, but we need to do something about 3rd line
Transactions
1.
PIT
  1. Choix de 2023 ronde en 4e (CGY)
CGY
  1. Carter, Jeff
2.
PIT
  1. Yamamoto, Kailer
EDM
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
3.
PIT
  1. Henrique, Adam
ANA
  1. McGinn, Brock
  2. Nylander, Alexander
  3. Choix de 2023 ronde en 2e (PIT)
4.
PIT
  1. Engvall, Pierre
  2. Holl, Justin
TOR
  1. Petry, Jeff
5.
PIT
  1. Athanasiou, Andreas (1 500 000 $ retained)
CHI
  1. Heinen, Danton
  2. Choix de 2023 ronde en 3e (NJD)
Rachats de contrats
  • Jack Johnson: 1 916 667 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGE1E RONDE2E RONDE3E RONDE4E RONDE5E RONDE6E RONDE7E RONDE
2023
Logo de PIT
Logo de CGY
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de FLA
Logo de TOR
2024
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
2025
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2382 500 000 $81 630 175 $0 $400 000 $869 825 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Guentzel, Jake
6 000 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Crosby, Sidney
8 700 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 3
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Rakell, Rickard
5 000 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 6
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Zucker, Jason
5 500 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Malkin, Evgeni
6 100 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Rust, Bryan
5 125 000 $
AD, AG
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo de Oilers d'Edmonton
Yamamoto, Kailer
3 100 000 $
AD
RFA - 2
Logo de Ducks d'Anaheim
Henrique, Adam
5 825 000 $
AG, C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Blackhawks de Chicago
Athanasiou, Andreas
1 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
Engvall, Pierre
2 250 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Blueger, Teddy
2 200 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Archibald, Josh
900 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Pettersson, Marcus
4 025 175 $
DG
UFA - 3
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Letang, Kris
6 100 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Jarry, Tristan
3 500 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier
825 000 $
DG
RFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Rutta, Jan
2 750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 3
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
DeSmith, Casey
1 800 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Dumoulin, Brian
4 100 000 $
DG
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Smith, Ty
863 333 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Ruhwedel, Chad
800 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
Poehling, Ryan
750 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
Holl, Justin
2 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 1

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29 nov. 2022 à 20 h 48
#1
Habs 7th round 1983
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If I were you I would talk to Julie Petry first. Among the 15 teams on the no trade list, I can name you 7.
29 nov. 2022 à 20 h 51
#2
Owly
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Yeah you are stuck with Petry, Leafs have no need for an old guy making way more than he should
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29 nov. 2022 à 20 h 56
#3
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
Yeah you are stuck with Petry, Leafs have no need for an old guy making way more than he should


There's a lot of players wer stuck with neutral
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29 nov. 2022 à 21 h 17
#4
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Surprised u didnt send us Carter
29 nov. 2022 à 21 h 39
#5
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Team Toughness took a L in OT tonight. Scrumming in OT a bad idea
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29 nov. 2022 à 21 h 46
#6
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Quoting: Caniac555
Team Toughness took a L in OT tonight. Scrumming in OT a bad idea


We are lucky we got a point. Were outplayed and had bad turnovers most of game. I mean yeah that probably should've been a penalty, but you gotta play till the whistle. Everyone just stood there lol
29 nov. 2022 à 21 h 52
#7
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Looked like Rust had the puck then turns his back…cant assume no physical play in OT. I don’t know what a penalty is and isn’t anymore anyway.

Quoting: pensfan21
We are lucky we got a point. Were outplayed and had bad turnovers most of game. I mean yeah that probably should've been a penalty, but you gotta play till the whistle. Everyone just stood there lol
29 nov. 2022 à 22 h 18
#8
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Quoting: Caniac555
Looked like Rust had the puck then turns his back…cant assume no physical play in OT. I don’t know what a penalty is and isn’t anymore anyway.


Well that's the thing. It was a borderline penalty. Could've gone either way. You never really know in the NHL these days so can't assume it'll be called and stop playing
29 nov. 2022 à 22 h 28
#9
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Heinen and a 3rd will get you AA with no retention. Make it your 2023 2nd if you want the Hawks to retain. Heinen adds no value to this deal from the Hawks perspective.
29 nov. 2022 à 22 h 53
#10
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Quoting: Hawksguy81
Heinen and a 3rd will get you AA with no retention. Make it your 2023 2nd if you want the Hawks to retain. Heinen adds no value to this deal from the Hawks perspective.


I hope you’re trolling. Heinen at worst case scenario equals AA but with a better contract. AA with retention would be worth a 3rd alone. The fact that we are throwing in Heinen is just silly and makes this trade bad for the pens.
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30 nov. 2022 à 9 h 7
#11
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Gotta stop with the Carter trades lol
30 nov. 2022 à 10 h 24
#12
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Quoting: JSEB93
Gotta stop with the Carter trades lol


Why? Flames fans have said they like this one. It would be up to Carter whether he wants to waive his NTC
30 nov. 2022 à 10 h 38
#13
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Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
I hope you’re trolling. Heinen at worst case scenario equals AA but with a better contract. AA with retention would be worth a 3rd alone. The fact that we are throwing in Heinen is just silly and makes this trade bad for the pens.


Ha. Not trolling. Just meant that Heinen on an expiring contract holds zero value to a rebuilding Hawks team. Hawks signed AA to fill a top 6 spot and bring back a pick at the deadline. AA has played pretty well so far, which is a nice surprise. No knock on Heinen intended. I assumed he was added to the trade just to help balance out cap hit for Pens
30 nov. 2022 à 10 h 51
#14
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Quoting: pensfan21
Why? Flames fans have said they like this one. It would be up to Carter whether he wants to waive his NTC


I mean the value may be fine. But full NMC - he isn't waiving to go to Calgary - probably not waiving for basically any team. Just something we have to deal with.
30 nov. 2022 à 10 h 57
#15
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Quoting: JSEB93
I mean the value may be fine. But full NMC - he isn't waiving to go to Calgary - probably not waiving for basically any team. Just something we have to deal with.


Probably won't waive it, but I think it is still worth a try. If we cannot move him then he needs to be taken off 3rd line.
30 nov. 2022 à 11 h 29
#16
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Quoting: pensfan21
Probably won't waive it, but I think it is still worth a try. If we cannot move him then he needs to be taken off 3rd line.


Sure, I mean I guess it doesn't hurt. Anything is worth a try.

If we can't and you take him off the 3rd line, who are you putting there - Blueger? He's playing well, but I don't think he's been so much better that you need to ruin that 4th line chemistry. Carter has been fine. Obviously we would like to see an improvement in his game, but he's winning 60% of his faceoffs and scoring at a 45 point pace with only a 25% offensive zone start %. We all agree if we could go back we wouldn't sign him. But acting like he's some disaster and costing the team just doesn't really make sense to me imo.
30 nov. 2022 à 11 h 50
#17
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Quoting: JSEB93
Sure, I mean I guess it doesn't hurt. Anything is worth a try.

If we can't and you take him off the 3rd line, who are you putting there - Blueger? He's playing well, but I don't think he's been so much better that you need to ruin that 4th line chemistry. Carter has been fine. Obviously we would like to see an improvement in his game, but he's winning 60% of his faceoffs and scoring at a 45 point pace with only a 25% offensive zone start %. We all agree if we could go back we wouldn't sign him. But acting like he's some disaster and costing the team just doesn't really make sense to me imo.


I see what your saying, but personally I think he is costing the team. He dosen't drive play, is bad defensively, and I believe only has had one goal in the past 15 games. Plus having our top 3 centers all be over 35 if not great. Everyone that has played with him has also been worse when put on the line (Heinen, Kapanen, Malkin when Carter was on 2nd line). I would target a 3rd line center at TDL. I just don't think we win a cup with Carter anchoring that line.
30 nov. 2022 à 11 h 59
#18
Future Ducks legend
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I'm hesitant to take that offer for Anaheim. Nylander is rapidly nearing, or is already at bust territory given his age and still not cementing an NHL spot. McGinn could help the room out some, and I know salary has to come back the other way, and the 2nd is nice, but we are really looking to add firsts.

I think we get a better offer from Colorado who are desperate for a 2C, which is a more natural fit for Henrique
30 nov. 2022 à 12 h 37
#19
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Quoting: pensfan21
I see what your saying, but personally I think he is costing the team. He dosen't drive play, is bad defensively, and I believe only has had one goal in the past 15 games. Plus having our top 3 centers all be over 35 if not great. Everyone that has played with him has also been worse when put on the line (Heinen, Kapanen, Malkin when Carter was on 2nd line). I would target a 3rd line center at TDL. I just don't think we win a cup with Carter anchoring that line.


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I don't know of many 3rd line centers making 3mil that score 45 points and win 60% of their faceoffs. I'm not saying he's playing great or even above average - I absolutely understand your complaints - but I think there is a giant difference between underperforming and costing the team. I don't see how he is doing the latter. He's never going to drive play with a 25% offensive zone start percentage. His Corsi, scoring chance%, and whatever other metric goes into that is always going to struggle because of it. He's not good defensively, but winning 60% of your faceoffs helps mitigate that. You're correct - 1 goal and 6 assists in his last 15 games.

I'm interested to know where you are getting these numbers from - because according to Natural Stat Trick Heinen and Kapanen were both better with Carter than without him this year. He's barely even played with Malkin so I'm not really going to count that. Also, if a winger is going from playing with Sid or Geno to Carter, obviously they are going to do worse.

If they can get a 3C improvement I'm all for it - I just don't see how a 3C on pace for 45 points and winning 60% of his faceoffs while being on the ice for more goals scored than against and a positive xGF% is costing the team
 
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