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Killing the future

Créé par: Chabotrrorr
Équipe: 2022-23 Flames de Calgary
Date de création initiale: 17 nov. 2022
Publié: 17 nov. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
CRÉÉANSCAP HIT
Lucic, Milan
11 294 000 $
Karlsson, Erik
55 606 250 $
Transactions
1.
CGY
  1. O'Reilly, Ryan (3 750 000 $ retained)
STL
  1. Backlund, Mikael (483 752 $ retained)
  2. Yelesin, Alexander [Liste de réserve]
  3. Zary, Connor
  4. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (CGY)
  5. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (CGY)
Détails additionnels:
Tell me if I need to add more
2.
MTL
  1. Lucic, Milan
  2. Meloche, Nicolas
  3. Zohorna, Radim
  4. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (CGY)
  5. Choix de 4e ronde en 2024 (CGY)
Détails additionnels:
Promise to buy out Lucic.

Tell me if I need to add more (or less)
3.
CGY
  1. Choix de 6e ronde en 2023 (TOR)
TOR
  1. Lewis, Trevor
Détails additionnels:
Anywhere
4.
CGY
  1. Karlsson, Erik (4 025 000 $ retained)
SJS
  1. Gilbert, Dennis
  2. Sergeev, Arsenii [Liste de réserve]
  3. Zadorov, Nikita
  4. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (CGY)
  5. Choix de 3e ronde en 2024 (CGY)
  6. Choix de 2e ronde en 2025 (CGY)
Détails additionnels:
Tell me the value
5.
CGY
BUF
  1. Karlsson, Erik
  2. Kerins, Rory
  3. Pospisil, Martin
  4. Choix de 4e ronde en 2023 (CGY)
Détails additionnels:
1.86875M retained
6.
CGY
ANA
    These are just horrible ideas. Please find a way to fix them. Have fun!
    Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
    Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
    2023
    Logo de CGY
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de CGY
    2024
    Logo de CGY
    2025
    Logo de FLA
    Logo de CGY
    Logo de CGY
    Logo de CGY
    Logo de CGY
    TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
    2082 500 000 $67 021 502 $0 $0 $15 478 498 $
    Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    5 900 000 $5 900 000 $
    AG, AD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    4 850 000 $4 850 000 $
    C, AD
    UFA - 2
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    2 125 000 $2 125 000 $
    AD, AG
    UFA - 2
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    5 800 000 $5 800 000 $
    AD, AG
    UFA - 3
    Logo de Blues de St-Louis
    -1 875 000 $-1 875 000 $
    C
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    2 300 000 $2 300 000 $
    AG, AD, C
    RFA - 2
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    4 900 000 $4 900 000 $
    AD, AG
    NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    7 000 000 $7 000 000 $
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 7
    Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
    5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
    AD, AG
    M-NTC
    UFA - 5
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    1 300 000 $1 300 000 $
    C
    UFA - 2
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    762 500 $762 500 $
    AG, C
    UFA - 2
    Lucic, Milan
    1 294 000 $1 294 000 $
    Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    3 250 000 $3 250 000 $
    DG/DD
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    1 125 000 $1 125 000 $
    DD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
    G
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    1 237 500 $1 237 500 $
    DG
    M-NTC
    UFA - 2
    Karlsson, Erik
    5 606 250 $5 606 250 $
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    750 000 $750 000 $
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    912 500 $912 500 $
    DG
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    4 550 000 $4 550 000 $
    DD
    UFA - 4
    Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
    DG/DD
    UFA - 2
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    750 000 $750 000 $
    DD
    UFA - 1
    Équipe de réserve
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    863 333 $863 333 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
    AG
    RFA - 2
    Logo de Flames de Calgary
    750 000 $750 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
    AD
    UFA - 1

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    17 nov. 2022 à 15 h 4
    #26
    Subbanator
    Avatar de l'utilisateur
    Rejoint: juill. 2017
    Messages: 7,297
    Mentions "j'aime": 3,311
    Quoting: Dr_Invictus
    None of the NHL "insiders" said Josh Anderson is valued at a 1st and a high prospect, and even if they did, it doesn't change the cap reality. If Calgary traded for him, then they would have to shed his 5.5M salary, at minimum, next year. Trading Lucic means nothing because his cap hit is fully absorbed by weegar and Huberdeau's extensions. These are basic facts, not opinions from Twitter. Anderson's stats are facts, not opinions. His age is a fact, not an opinion. So if your "insiders" are choosing to ignore that, then you need to question the value of that opinion. Moreover, no reputable insider has recently stated that Anderson is valued as high as so many Habs fans are desperate to have him valued.


    Literally Elliot Friedman, Frank Serivalle and Peirre Lebrun have all stated that MTL turned down significant offers for Anderson. This isn't something just made up by Habs fans.

    And once again you can say what you want about stats but you still see teams give up significant assets for guys like Chairot, Foligno, Savard, Risto, hell even a washed up Rick Nash got a first and a prospect. Physicality is still something the old boys club that runs the league values and Anderson is apparently seen as a power forward.

    Stop acting like NHL GMs are out here being perfect in their trades. I'm not even saying he is worth it, I'm just giving legit reasoning why Habs fans tell others his value is that high.
    17 nov. 2022 à 15 h 6
    #27
    Démarrer sujet
    Avatar de l'utilisateur
    Rejoint: oct. 2020
    Messages: 1,673
    Mentions "j'aime": 411
    Quoting: Samsquanch14
    I think everyone just gets too caught up in "points". If he was a leading goal-scorer, he'd be making what Suzuki makes. It's funny when those who don't watch all the games try to analyze someone else's games. Analytics are great and all, but they don't tell the whole story. What people tend to miss with Anderson is that he is a valuable asset being a fast power-forward who can put up decent points for being rotated through 2nd & 3rd line. Not only that, he creates turnovers and creates plenty of opportunities. For example, the analytics don't tell if his linemates are in the right places to convert from the opportunities. He's not a bad player at all and I agree with being paid like 1m over, but other than that, he proves his worth. Everyone just assumes that if you're not lighting it up, then you're not good. That's absurd because everyone has their play-style and roles on the team. To say you'd rather have Lucic over Anderson...come on now, talk about age (when 28 isn't even that old). I think what the other person is saying is that Anderson does have value and GM's would want someone like him, a 1st? Not sure, but something decent in return would come back. I don't watch Flames games, so I don't comment on who's ass and not ass because they can play an important role that I don't see on NHL Network's highlight reels.

    As for help on this to the creator, I think there are too many pieces in the trade. Can probably get away with a decent prospect with a 2nd & 3rd


    Thank you!
    17 nov. 2022 à 15 h 27
    #28
    Dr_Invictus
    Avatar de l'utilisateur
    Rejoint: mai 2017
    Messages: 2,275
    Mentions "j'aime": 877
    Quoting: Subbanator7667
    Literally Elliot Friedman, Frank Serivalle and Peirre Lebrun have all stated that MTL turned down significant offers for Anderson. This isn't something just made up by Habs fans.

    And once again you can say what you want about stats but you still see teams give up significant assets for guys like Chairot, Foligno, Savard, Risto, hell even a washed up Rick Nash got a first and a prospect. Physicality is still something the old boys club that runs the league values and Anderson is apparently seen as a power forward.

    Stop acting like NHL GMs are out here being perfect in their trades. I'm not even saying he is worth it, I'm just giving legit reasoning why Habs fans tell others his value is that high.


    "Significant" is an arbitrary term and relative to the player. A 5th round pick is "significant," for Trevor Lewis. Conversely, a 2nd round pick is insignificant for Connor McDavid. I would also note that all of those "significant" offers were prior to the trade deadline last year and when Montreal thought he was going to improve. He didn't.
    17 nov. 2022 à 15 h 48
    #29
    Subbanator
    Avatar de l'utilisateur
    Rejoint: juill. 2017
    Messages: 7,297
    Mentions "j'aime": 3,311
    Quoting: Dr_Invictus
    "Significant" is an arbitrary term and relative to the player. A 5th round pick is "significant," for Trevor Lewis. Conversely, a 2nd round pick is insignificant for Connor McDavid. I would also note that all of those "significant" offers were prior to the trade deadline last year and when Montreal thought he was going to improve. He didn't.


    Actually they come from the trade deadline and the draft. Islanders were reportedly looking at Romanov or Anderson for the 13th pick, MTL chose to go with Romanov.

    Like I said, you can hate it but big power forwards will always have a place in NHL GMs hearts for reasons that go beyond advanced stats or even basic logic
    17 nov. 2022 à 15 h 49
    #30
    Dr_Invictus
    Avatar de l'utilisateur
    Rejoint: mai 2017
    Messages: 2,275
    Mentions "j'aime": 877
    Quoting: Samsquanch14
    I think everyone just gets too caught up in "points". If he was a leading goal-scorer, he'd be making what Suzuki makes. It's funny when those who don't watch all the games try to analyze someone else's games. Analytics are great and all, but they don't tell the whole story. What people tend to miss with Anderson is that he is a valuable asset being a fast power-forward who can put up decent points for being rotated through 2nd & 3rd line. Not only that, he creates turnovers and creates plenty of opportunities. For example, the analytics don't tell if his linemates are in the right places to convert from the opportunities. He's not a bad player at all and I agree with being paid like 1m over, but other than that, he proves his worth. Everyone just assumes that if you're not lighting it up, then you're not good. That's absurd because everyone has their play-style and roles on the team. To say you'd rather have Lucic over Anderson...come on now, talk about age (when 28 isn't even that old). I think what the other person is saying is that Anderson does have value and GM's would want someone like him, a 1st? Not sure, but something decent in return would come back. I don't watch Flames games, so I don't comment on who's ass and not ass because they can play an important role that I don't see on NHL Network's highlight reels.

    As for help on this to the creator, I think there are too many pieces in the trade. Can probably get away with a decent prospect with a 2nd & 3rd


    There are plenty of statistics which indicate a player's value while on the ice relative to other players. I don't think you can make a rational argument that Anderson makes good chances, but the rest of his team just can't capitalize. He has the 7th worse Corsi percentage on the Habs. Anderson is the equivalent of Coleman on the flames, grossly overpaid for his production because a similar player can be found for less AAV. I would absolutely take Lucic over Anderson because there is only one year left on his contract. It's also well established that peak production's bell curve has a median age of 28. Players decline in production past 28. The few exceptions don't discount the distribution: Giordano for example, started later than most defensemen and got better past 28. Crosby has been very consistent...Lindstrom...etc. they are still a very small subset and Andersons numbers have showed an earlier decline.

    I think for a team to be truly competitive they need to have an above average level of production per skater relative to the individual AAV average per skater at any given time. So for 20 dressed skaters on any given game, that gives you an average of 4.125M per skater with a caphit of 82.5M. With two goalies you would need a combined minimum of .90SV%. For the 18 skaters you would need to be on average 1.24 Goals above replacement (above the league average GAR). That works out to spending 3.33M per GAR for any given skater. For example, if you have a skater on your bottom 6 D, like Vlasic at 7M per year with a -3.4GAR it produces negative 2.06M per GAR. Basically, it just means that other players need to have higher GAR relative to every dollar you spend on them against the cap. So for San Jose, Timo Meier had the highest GAR (+16) at an AAV of 6M. His GAR only costs San Jose 375K per GAR. It certainly offsets Vlasic, but you can see how much drag it puts on a team having a few bad contracts. So yes, having a player whose production is far below what their AAV per player would dictate, is a net drag on the team. I'm using the GAR stats based of an analysis Travis Yost did on what it takes for a team to be a contender, which he based off the stats of playoff vs non playoff teams, and the ultimate winners year over year. It's a good read. I suppose you could use WAR, as well for the goalies. I just used SV% for simplicity.
    17 nov. 2022 à 15 h 51
    #31
    Mr.
    Avatar de l'utilisateur
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    Messages: 3,727
    Mentions "j'aime": 1,232
    Quoting: sens65
    He's a guy with one 40-point season in his career with a 0.44 PP/G making $5.5 million in a league where almost every team is cap crunched.

    Habs fans are the only people that think he has any value whatsoever.


    We're not the only ppl, it's actually the opinion and actual knowledge of every respectable insider
    17 nov. 2022 à 21 h 5
    #32
    Dr_Invictus
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    Rejoint: mai 2017
    Messages: 2,275
    Mentions "j'aime": 877
    Quoting: Subbanator7667
    Actually they come from the trade deadline and the draft. Islanders were reportedly looking at Romanov or Anderson for the 13th pick, MTL chose to go with Romanov.

    Like I said, you can hate it but big power forwards will always have a place in NHL GMs hearts for reasons that go beyond advanced stats or even basic logic


    Quoting: Subbanator7667
    Actually they come from the trade deadline and the draft. Islanders were reportedly looking at Romanov or Anderson for the 13th pick, MTL chose to go with Romanov.

    Like I said, you can hate it but big power forwards will always have a place in NHL GMs hearts for reasons that go beyond advanced stats or even basic logic


    Nobody said I hate power forwards. Anderson is no Jerome Iginla, so stop pretending he is top tier because of insider anecdotes. For every 20 rumours, 1 of them will ever materialize. And yes GMs make terrible trades all the time. But the Montreal fanbase wouldn't be so excited about these rumours if he actually had that value. They are excited because he doesn't have that value and they think they will get a haul for an otherwise bad signing. Calgary fans would be doing the same thing if "rumours" said that a team wanted Coleman.
    19 nov. 2022 à 19 h 47
    #33
    Habs4Ever
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    Quoting: SevenLeg
    Other teams generally don't keep asking about supposed cap dumps.





    @leafs101
    19 nov. 2022 à 20 h 14
    #34
    Bedard23
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    Rejoint: mai 2021
    Messages: 9,282
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    Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
    You have zero hockey knowledge
    Why comment ?
    We don’t care you don’t like his contract, GMs don’t sees him like you do


    I mean nhl gms and coaches know more then we do so what can we expect
    19 nov. 2022 à 22 h 14
    #35
    Hop on the Slaftrain
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    Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
    leafs101


    Even when you show them that, they still come up with stuff like "he's just click baiting" as if Pierre LeBrun, the most trusted insider, had nothing else to do.
    TheRealisticGuy a aimé ceci.
    28 nov. 2022 à 11 h 37
    #36
    Habs4Ever
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    Quoting: TheRealisticGuy
    leafs101


    Quoting: SevenLeg
    Even when you show them that, they still come up with stuff like "he's just click baiting" as if Pierre LeBrun, the most trusted insider, had nothing else to do.


    @Oliver_Wahlstrom look above at the Pierre LeBrun Tweet

    I will tag everyone who I have an argument with lol
     
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