2 1st rounders for Horvat??

Would 1 be enough? He’s definitely a rental I thought 2 was a lot to pay but also used to everyone say it’s not enough

Not really worth it for the Leafs to get Horvat as a rental, and Chychrun's injury history makes him a poor target.

In general, the Leafs shouldn't be giving up the farm, you did keep Knies and Niemela but I think the 2023 1st and 2nds and 3rds are also worth keeping. Reason is they will need young players to make the team in the next 5 years plus if they want to be perennial contenders, especially if Matthews or Nylander end up walking.

I think Horvat is a fine target depending on the price, him at 50% for Kerfoot, a first and Robertson would certainly be an enticing idea. He could either create a super interesting 3rd line, with whoever he finds some chemistry with, or he takes Kerfoot's spot on JT's wing which could be downright scary. Despite his flaws he's definitely a big addition and can just worry about finding his place in a system where he doesn't need to be the star.

If they can retain him I would say that is a fine price but if they can't which is probably. There could be two top 6 spots to fill and Knies may or may not be able to fill one, and Robertson would be gone.

As we try to get over the hump, we at some point will need to take a shot and sacrifice some futures for a run. This year looks like as good a time as any. Especially closer to the deadline. Looks like a lot of good players could be available.

Yeah, but they don't necessarily need star players to do so, they already have a ton of superstar power. They do need someone who can play in the 2LW position but it doesn't have to be a top 6 player. Defense, we will see what they really need over the course of the next few months, particularly in the next 2 weeks with Brodie being out. They need their goaltending/team defense to get them out of the Atlantic gauntlet especially if they play Boston or Tampa. I'm guessing that they will either face Tampa or Florida.

I am not worried about the team defence or goaltending. I worry about getting into the late stages of a series and needing a goal and getting nothing from the supporting players. Get another difference maker to play elsewhere and get that one or two more goals we need.

That's going to have to come from a player, playing on the 3rd or 4th line honestly, which could be getting Horvat/ROR/Toews to be the 3C. Horvat is playing 20 minutes a night and is 27, so I don't see him as a guy that they can drastically decrease his minutes-before you get any ideas Tavares isn't being demoted either. They could put Nylander as the 3C but that's kind of senseless when you would end up with an elite faceoff man on the wing (winning 1st possession off the draw could lead to/prevent goals).

ROR (31) and Toews (34) are playing 18 and 17 minutes a night respectively, so it might be more acceptable for them to play reduced minutes. All 3 bring leadership, but the later two are both Stanley Cup Champs, Conn Smythe winners, and Selke winners. They also probably will cost less to acquire than Horvat who is probably going to have a career year (96 pt pace), Toews (55 pt pace) has his NMC that could limit the return, and O'Reilly is currently at a ~30pt pace, he probably gets it up to 40-50. There is also a possiblity that ROR (~75m career earnings before tax) and Toews (113m career earnings) can be retained by Toronto vs Horvat who has only 31m in earnings (he will want a 50m-64m contract)

So you are opposed to a rental then. I am not. I think this could be the best rental market we have seen in a while. We should be fighting for 1st in the division by the end and adding a bigger name does 2 things. Boosts us and makes sure no one else is getting the boost. ROR would be my pick if he's available because he's going to cost the least against the cap and is great defensively. Horvat sucks defensively and Toews is definitely a shell of what he was. Any of them would come knowing their role will change from what they were in their current teams. None of them are bumping anyone off the top PP and they won't necessarily get top 6 minutes but would definitely get chances when the team needs a goal.

I'm not opposed to a rental, the cost just needs to make sense and also the fit needs to be good. That's why I'm for either ROR or Toews since Horvat will probably be the most sought, and he's also bringing less to the table imo vs the other two. Also. the first two can probably be slotted in as 3C with no issue, and that's what will give the Leafs the opportunity to run 3 lines that can be a true offensive threat.

Horvat sucking defensively won't really matter though, he will have a reduced role for sure, but not one that would allow him to be put on the 3rd line since he's having a great offensive season. I think it would be useless to have him or Tavares as the 2LW. ROR and Toews would probably be more willing to have reduced minutes such that they can be played on the 3rd line. Toews is still a shell of what he was but he's still a top 6 player. None will be bumping anyone off the top powerplay but the second PP would get more time most likely or they could have them swap off with Tavares when he's tired. Either way they are going to get accommodated in some way, just like 4th liner, the shell of Joe Thornton was.

All fair points. Apart from the reduced role stuff. ROR, Horvat and Toews would all know they are going from teams that they are the top dogs on, to a team with 4 players who will slot ahead of them. ROR is the best defensive player and I think would have the biggest impact. If they were to get Horvat, he'd know he's not going to get top minutes but would still get a lot of 5v5 minutes as well. After PK's which he won't be part of, he could jump on with Matthews, JT and Nylander from time to time as well. In any sense, I think this is a year to go for it.

Yeah, I'm not saying Horvat is going to expect top minutes, but Nylander is averaging 17 minutes, so Horvat is going to go from 20 to 16 at best if they are giving him, extra shifts in the top 6, and some PP1 looks (Kerfoot avgs 16 min in the top 6 with PK2 and PP2 time). Wouldn't be surprised if they struggle to get him to play like 15 minutes. He has no trade protection if I'm not mistaken but I wouldn't be surprised if he plays poorly or disappears. For ROR (averages 18 min) and Toews (averages 17 min) it would be more natural as they will just be losing probably 2-3 minutes max vs 4. Kerfoot is probably going to have to go anyways, so it only make sense to get O'Reilly or Toews anyways. O'Reilly probably would have the biggest impact defensively, and he's also pretty clutch but Toews is called Captain Clutch for a reason, so I wouldn't mind either choice.

This year is as good as any to go for it, I don't think they should limit their thinking to Matthews contract, Dubas is up for extension himself though, so he's going to have to do something but I just hope he doesn't handicap the team in an act of desperation like a lot of GMs do before they get let go.