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Ottawa Arizona Boston - Everybody wins

Créé par: budgeteam
Publié: 12 nov. 2022 à 12 h 9
Plafond salarial: 82 500 000 $
Journées à la saison: 152/185 (82%)
Détermination du registraire central: Cette transaction a rempli les différents critères exigés par le registraire central de la LNH.

Logo de Coyotes de l'ArizonaCoyotes de l'Arizona

DépartStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Nemeth, PatrikCoyotes de l'ArizonaLNH-2 054 054 $011---8022--
ArrivéeStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Zaitsev, NikitaSénateurs d'OttawaLNH-3 697 297 $011---7011--
Choix de 3e ronde en 2025 (Logo de Sénateurs d'OttawaOTT)---010------
VariationEspace sous le plafond salarialFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Initial16 287 736 $23447431513
Variation-1 643 243 $000010
Final14 644 493 $ (↓)234474316 (↑)130-1-1

Logo de Bruins de BostonBruins de Boston

DépartStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Reilly, MikeBruins de BostonMineures-1 875 000 $011---10011--
Choix de 5e ronde en 2023 (Logo de Bruins de BostonBOS)---001------
ArrivéeStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Nemeth, PatrikCoyotes de l'ArizonaLNH-2 500 000 $011---8022--
VariationEspace sous le plafond salarialFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Initial887 500 $2248713412
Variation-625 000 $10000-1
Final262 500 $ (↓)23 (↑)48713411 (↓)011

Logo de Sénateurs d'OttawaSénateurs d'Ottawa

DépartStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Zaitsev, NikitaSénateurs d'OttawaLNH-3 697 297 $011---7011--
Choix de 3e ronde en 2025 (Logo de Sénateurs d'OttawaOTT)---010------
ArrivéeStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Reilly, MikeBruins de BostonMineures-1 540 541 $011---10011--
Choix de 5e ronde en 2023 (Logo de Bruins de BostonBOS)---001------
VariationEspace sous le plafond salarialFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Initial3 925 830 $2245673513
Variation2 156 756 $-1000-11
Final6 082 586 $ (↑)21 (↓)456734 (↓)14 (↑)000
12 nov. 2022 à 12 h 14
#1
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Actually Ottawa wins since they get the best player of the lot and gain more than 2 million in cap space too. Arizona and Boston both decline.
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12 nov. 2022 à 12 h 17
#2
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couldnt afford 2nd t
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Modifié 12 nov. 2022 à 12 h 29
rpJ1ui9.png

This trade helps all 3 teams accomplish their goals through trading negative value contracts to each other.

Arizona:
-Nemeth vs Zaitsev makes no difference to Arizona. In fact, Zaitsev might even be an upgrade for them because he can eat up big minutes, and not do a good enough job to disrupt their tank.
-More importantly, they get a 3rd round pick for increasing their salary next season by 1M.
-Even more importantly, they actually save money next season by swapping Zaitsev for Nemeth. Even know Zaitsev has a higher salary, his salary is at parity with his cap hit (4.5/4.5). Nemeth's salary is 1M more than his cap hit (3.5M salary vs 2.5M cap hit). This means that they have to pay more to hit the floor with Nemeth in their organization than with Zaitsev. That is major attraction of this deal for them. They shed a contract where the salary exceeds the cap hit.

Ottawa:
-Ottawa is gridlocked due to its budget. The league as a whole is gridlocked because of the salary cap. They need to improve their defence, and they don't have a lot of options. Reilly is not a saviour, but he was a solid #5 D in DJ Smith's system.
-This is a close to salary-neutral move for Ottawa (+250k this season, -500k next season).
-This is close to an asset-neutral move for Ottawa. They downgrade a future 3rd for a current 5th. That is not a huge cost.

Boston:
-This is purely a cap move for Boston. Nobody wants Reilly without Boston taking back cap.
-Boston pays a 5th round pick to gain 500k in cap space.
-Additionally, Nemeth's buyout in the off season is slightly cheaper than Reilly's.


Even if the assets (3rd to ARZ, 5th to OTT) are slightly off value wise. The premise of the trade is what matters.
12 nov. 2022 à 12 h 23
#3
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couldnt afford 2nd t
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Quoting: MoxNix
Actually Ottawa wins since they get the best player of the lot and gain more than 2 million in cap space too. Arizona and Boston both decline.


Ottawa does not care about cap space. They are a budget team. Cap is not an issue for them for at least another 2+ seasons. Their cap is artificially high right now due to having injured players not placed on LTIR.

Read my explanation above that I just posted. This is a great trade for everybody. that takes 3 bad contracts and finds a way to help each team by swapping them.

With Boston, regardless of which player they have, they will be buried. No one is taking Reilly without cap considerations. Boston gives up a 5th to open up 500k in cap space and get a slightly cheaper buyout next year.

Arizona gets a defenseman who is arguably a better fit for their tank. They shed a contract where the salary exceeds the cap hit, which is a huge benefit to them considering they try to operate below the cap floor in real dollars. Contracts like the one Nemeth has next year impede their ability to do that. If anything, Arizona are the biggest winners of this trade when you consider they get the best asset (a 3rd round pick) and the most benefit (losing a contract where salary exceeds cap for a contract at parity with the cap hit).

For Ottawa, they risk giving up a 3rd for a 5th, and ending up in the exact same position they are in now. It's a smart risk to take given how well Reilly played under DJ Smith in the past, but I am surprised you see this as Ottawa getting the win. They very well could end up with Reilly continuing to play bad for Ottawa, and also out an asset for their trouble.

Boston and Arizona both get definite wins, because those teams winning the trade isn't dependent on anything happening after the trade. Boston gets cap space, Arizona gets a 3rd round pick and a contract where the salary doesn't exceed the cap hit. Ottawa takes all the risk in the deal, so obviously the potential reward for them is higher.
12 nov. 2022 à 12 h 29
#4
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Modifié 12 nov. 2022 à 13 h 12
Boston isn't gaining 500k cap they're losing 625k cap. Maybe you should check the rest of your numbers. Besides it doesn't matter how you try to spin it Zaitsev is a cap dump. It'll take more than a 3rd just to dump Zaitsev and you certainly won't be getting a useful player in return too.

Give up with the ridiculous rationalizations. All your trade proposals are the same. They heavily favor Ottawa while completely ignoring any inconvenient facts (like other team's needs) and come with a wall of text trying to make a bad trade look good for the other team(s).

I applaud you for the thought and effort you put into your posts but you should think less about fleecing the other team and more about what's actually fair and might work for both teams without all the flawed reasoning attempting to justify a poor trade for the other guys.
12 nov. 2022 à 13 h 46
#5
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couldnt afford 2nd t
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Quoting: MoxNix
Boston isn't gaining 500k cap they're losing 625k cap. Maybe you should check the rest of your numbers. Besides it doesn't matter how you try to spin it Zaitsev is a cap dump. It'll take more than a 3rd just to dump Zaitsev and you certainly won't be getting a useful player in return too.

Give up with the ridiculous rationalizations. All your trade proposals are the same. They heavily favor Ottawa while completely ignoring any inconvenient facts (like other team's needs) and come with a wall of text trying to make a bad trade look good for the other team(s).

I applaud you for the thought and effort you put into your posts but you should think less about fleecing the other team and more about what's actually fair and might work for both teams without all the flawed reasoning attempting to justify a poor trade for the other guys.


Capfriendly's chart shows an increase in cap because Arizona has Nemeth in the NHL, and Boston has Reilly buried. Boston would almost certainly bury Nemeth.

Reilly's cap hit is 3M, Nemeth's cap hit is 2.5M.

Nemeth and Zaitsev are both negative value contracts. Arizona is a budget team. They don't care about Zaitsev's cap hit, only his salary. Nemeth and Zaitsev is money in/money out this season. Then they get a 3rd to take on a net of 1M in real cash. That is in line with previous prices they set taking on negative value salary. For example, they get a 2nd+3rd to take on 6M in bad salary over 2 years to take on Nemeth. We are talking about Arizona getting a 3rd to take on an increase of 1M in bad salary.
12 nov. 2022 à 14 h 14
#6
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Modifié 12 nov. 2022 à 14 h 21
Quoting: budgeteam
Capfriendly's chart shows an increase in cap because Arizona has Nemeth in the NHL, and Boston has Reilly buried. Boston would almost certainly bury Nemeth.

Reilly's cap hit is 3M, Nemeth's cap hit is 2.5M.

Nemeth and Zaitsev are both negative value contracts. Arizona is a budget team. They don't care about Zaitsev's cap hit, only his salary. Nemeth and Zaitsev is money in/money out this season. Then they get a 3rd to take on a net of 1M in real cash. That is in line with previous prices they set taking on negative value salary. For example, they get a 2nd+3rd to take on 6M in bad salary over 2 years to take on Nemeth. We are talking about Arizona getting a 3rd to take on an increase of 1M in bad salary.


If there was any logic or reason that actually works for Boston and Arizona in that they'd simply trade Reilly + a 3rd to Arizona for Nemeth. Arizona would be getting a better player, one they could flip at the deadline with 50% retained to get another pick. Boston would gain $1.3875m cap space if they send Nemeth to Junior and lose $625k if they don't.

But come on just admit it already the only reason you put this proposal together was to fleece the other 2 teams by getting something for a cap dump with negative value and save Ottawa over 2 million in cap space in the process too. No matter how you try and spin it it heavily favors Ottawa.

And yes Ottawa does care about the cap. They may not have carte blanche to spend over the cap but they do have the go ahead to spend right up TO the cap now.
12 nov. 2022 à 14 h 21
#7
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couldnt afford 2nd t
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Quoting: MoxNix
If there was any logic or reason that actually works for Boston and Arizona in that they'd simply trade Reilly + a 3rd to Arizona for Nemeth. Arizona would be getting a better player, one they could flip at the deadline with 50% retained to get another pick and Boston would save $1.3875m cap space if they send Nemeth to Junior (and losing $625k if they don't).

But come on just admit it already the only reason you put this proposal together was to fleece the other 2 teams by getting something for a cap dump with negative value and save Ottawa over 2 million in cap space in the process too. No matter how you try and spin it it heavily favors Ottawa.


A 3 way trade accomplishes the same thing but is cheaper for Boston asset wise because Ottawa is kicking the 3rd to Arizona.

Arizona only has 2 retention spots remaining. They aren't going to trade for a player, with the idea that they might get a late pick (if that players game picks up on their team), where they retain on them for 2 seasons straight. That would leave Arizona with only 1 retention spot going forward. Not to mention, Reilly's cap has the same downside that Nemeth's cap has. The real money salary exceeds the cap hit, which will make it more expensive for Arizona to hit the floor next season.

That is why making it a 3-way trade makes sense. All 3 teams have slightly different needs that they cannot meet with a 2-way trade. You can read my original post and see that this reasoning was all outlined.

Mike Reilly went for a late 3rd after playing some of the best hockey of his career. So your idea of him being a major chip at the deadline doesn't really check out.
12 nov. 2022 à 14 h 33
#8
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Modifié 12 nov. 2022 à 14 h 44
Quoting: budgeteam
A 3 way trade accomplishes the same thing but is cheaper for Boston asset wise because Ottawa is kicking the 3rd to Arizona.

Arizona only has 2 retention spots remaining. They aren't going to trade for a player, with the idea that they might get a late pick (if that players game picks up on their team), where they retain on them for 2 seasons straight. That would leave Arizona with only 1 retention spot going forward. Not to mention, Reilly's cap has the same downside that Nemeth's cap has. The real money salary exceeds the cap hit, which will make it more expensive for Arizona to hit the floor next season.

That is why making it a 3-way trade makes sense. All 3 teams have slightly different needs that they cannot meet with a 2-way trade. You can read my original post and see that this reasoning was all outlined.

Mike Reilly went for a late 3rd after playing some of the best hockey of his career. So your idea of him being a major chip at the deadline doesn't really check out.


Don't be absurd.

Boston cares about the cap gain, not a 3rd round pick when they're looking like a top contender and they certainly won't want to help Ottawa not only get rid of a bad contract but replace him with the best value player in the deal (Boston's player BTW) AND give Ottawa 2 million in cap space for basically nothing.

Reilly's cap hit is 3 mil his actual salary this year is only 2.75 mil. Next year it's 4 mil but that's next year. I never said he'd be a major chip at the deadline I just said he could be flipped for a pick then. Even then it's not like they'll HAVE to flip him. If a better deal comes along for another player they'll take that instead.

I read your original post the reasoning is terribly flawed. Your trade would be great for Ottawa but it makes no sense at all for Boston and Arizona. Do you think both teams are too stupid to see how heavily it favors Ottawa? I assure you they're not.

Really if Ottawa wants to get rid of Zaitsev that badly they'll just have to pay up to do it nobody is going to pay them to take him. That's going to cost the Sens more than a 2nd round pick, probably more like two 2nds no matter where he goes and Arizona would probably ask for a 1st.
12 nov. 2022 à 15 h 15
#9
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Quoting: MoxNix
Don't be absurd.

Boston cares about the cap gain, not a 3rd round pick when they're looking like a top contender and they certainly won't want to help Ottawa not only get rid of a bad contract but replace him with the best value player in the deal (Boston's player BTW) AND give Ottawa 2 million in cap space for basically nothing.

Reilly's cap hit is 3 mil his actual salary this year is only 2.75 mil. Next year it's 4 mil but that's next year. I never said he'd be a major chip at the deadline I just said he could be flipped for a pick then. Even then it's not like they'll HAVE to flip him. If a better deal comes along for another player they'll take that instead.

I read your original post the reasoning is terribly flawed. Your trade would be great for Ottawa but it makes no sense at all for Boston and Arizona. Do you think both teams are too stupid to see how heavily it favors Ottawa? I assure you they're not.

Really if Ottawa wants to get rid of Zaitsev that badly they'll just have to pay up to do it nobody is going to pay them to take him. That's going to cost the Sens more than a 2nd round pick, probably more like two 2nds no matter where he goes and Arizona would probably ask for a 1st.


So you don't like the trade?
12 nov. 2022 à 18 h 48
#10
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I like the idea of Nemeth in and Reilly shipping out of Boston. I haven’t watched Nemeth play but his bio is a kind of like Forbert 2.0. Size matters in the playoffs. Reilly has skill and can play good hockey, but is the odd man out of the B’s D rotation.
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