SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/NHL Signings

Colorado Avalanche signed Nathan MacKinnon (8 Years / $12,600,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
Le graphique a été masqué

Options de sondage


20 sept. 2022 à 15 h 53
#76
Go Avs Go
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 122
Mentions "j'aime": 72
Considering the top 11 players in the NHL in terms of Salary - I would say it is a great deal. 8 years - this will age very well.

Basically EJ's contract rolled in MacKinnon

If you think it is a bad signing, I would say look at it in 1-3 years, and it might be one of the best


Connor McDavid
EDM
C $12,500,000
2
Artemi Panarin
NYR
LW $11,642,857
3
Auston Matthews
TOR
C $11,640,250
4
Erik Karlsson
SJS
D $11,500,000
5
Drew Doughty
LAK
D $11,000,000

John Tavares
TOR
C $11,000,000
7
Mitchell Marner
TOR
RW $10,903,000
8
Carey Price
MTL
G $10,500,000

Patrick Kane
CHI
RW $10,500,000

Jonathan Toews
CHI
C $10,500,000
11
Anze Kopitar
LAK
C $10,000,000

Jack Eichel
VGK
C $10,000,000

Aleksander Barkov
FLA
C $10,000,000

Sergei Bobrovsky
FLA
G $10,000,000
Svechy37 a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 16 h 1
#77
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juill. 2019
Messages: 9,506
Mentions "j'aime": 6,514
Quoting: TartarSauce90
The guy is straight up trolling McDavid LOL


Quoting: aadoyle
As soon as he won his cup I knew he wasnt making less than McDavid


As for record breaking contract it holds till AM 16mill x 8 year deal and than whenever Draisaitl gets grabbed via FA


Quoting: CEO
What happened to his team-first mentality?

Though, for real, he is an amazing player. But not McDavid


He is payed a lot less than McDavid. McDavids contract would have been worth around 13.7 this year.
SydBarrett et MadLin27 a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 16 h 1
#78
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juill. 2019
Messages: 9,506
Mentions "j'aime": 6,514
Quoting: Internetkingz
Considering the top 11 players in the NHL in terms of Salary - I would say it is a great deal. 8 years - this will age very well.

Basically EJ's contract rolled in MacKinnon

If you think it is a bad signing, I would say look at it in 1-3 years, and it might be one of the best


Connor McDavid
EDM
C $12,500,000
2
Artemi Panarin
NYR
LW $11,642,857
3
Auston Matthews
TOR
C $11,640,250
4
Erik Karlsson
SJS
D $11,500,000
5
Drew Doughty
LAK
D $11,000,000

John Tavares
TOR
C $11,000,000
7
Mitchell Marner
TOR
RW $10,903,000
8
Carey Price
MTL
G $10,500,000

Patrick Kane
CHI
RW $10,500,000

Jonathan Toews
CHI
C $10,500,000
11
Anze Kopitar
LAK
C $10,000,000

Jack Eichel
VGK
C $10,000,000

Aleksander Barkov
FLA
C $10,000,000

Sergei Bobrovsky
FLA
G $10,000,000


Its also 1.1m less than what mcdavid signed at when he signed his deal.
Internetkingz et SydBarrett a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 16 h 7
#79
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juill. 2019
Messages: 9,506
Mentions "j'aime": 6,514
Quoting: Missouri
"he's going to take a team discount" - Avs Fans

"HOW BOUT NO" - Mackinnon

-Mackinnon is good, but I wouldn't say he's worth more then McDavid. If the avs win a few more cups. I'd say this is worth it right away. But if they don't, I'm going to call it a huge overpay.


He took about 1.1m less than McDavid current market. Thats a discount, especially since McDavid hadn't won a cup and showed he was a dominant playoff performer.
Internetkingz a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 16 h 55
#80
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 279
Mentions "j'aime": 157
Quoting: Ritzy
He should be firing his agent for a contract like that.


The team was strapped for cap space, they were seemingly a pretty good team (had just been to the conference final), and he was an RFA. They promised to give him a good deal on his next one, and despite him not playing incredibly (dropped from 56 points to 33, though there were only 70 games that season, so a 38.65 point pace while continuing to be a defensive liability), and he got 4x $4.725M as a follow up while still an RFA. He was underpaid by a wide margin on the first deal, but the team did what they promised and paid him for giving them a break despite a significant drop off before the next deal.
20 sept. 2022 à 17 h 1
#81
WentWughes
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: nov. 2016
Messages: 10,657
Mentions "j'aime": 10,233
Quoting: Internetkingz
Considering the top 11 players in the NHL in terms of Salary - I would say it is a great deal. 8 years - this will age very well.

Basically EJ's contract rolled in MacKinnon

If you think it is a bad signing, I would say look at it in 1-3 years, and it might be one of the best


Connor McDavid
EDM
C $12,500,000
2
Artemi Panarin
NYR
LW $11,642,857
3
Auston Matthews
TOR
C $11,640,250
4
Erik Karlsson
SJS
D $11,500,000
5
Drew Doughty
LAK
D $11,000,000

John Tavares
TOR
C $11,000,000
7
Mitchell Marner
TOR
RW $10,903,000
8
Carey Price
MTL
G $10,500,000

Patrick Kane
CHI
RW $10,500,000

Jonathan Toews
CHI
C $10,500,000
11
Anze Kopitar
LAK
C $10,000,000

Jack Eichel
VGK
C $10,000,000

Aleksander Barkov
FLA
C $10,000,000

Sergei Bobrovsky
FLA
G $10,000,000


You're looking at his past to determine his future. History shows that he's already past his prime when the deal starts. On the bright side, the Cap is going to skyrocket so it won't be bad.
CD282 et Internetkingz a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 17 h 6
#82
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 9,379
Mentions "j'aime": 3,695
Quoting: CD282
Not true. McDavid took less than offered.


So did Tavares. He was offered 14 from San Jose.

I suspect MacKinnon could have gotten more than this
Internetkingz a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 17 h 19
#83
couldnt afford 2nd t
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 430
Quoting: CEO
What happened to his team-first mentality?

Though, for real, he is an amazing player. But not McDavid


This contract is pretty fair. Cap hit percentage wise, it's similar to what Malkin signed for when he had his big UFA contract. It's less than what Crosby signed for if you take the first 8 years of his UFA deal, and adjust the AAV for the current cap. MacKinnon is a top 5-10 center in the game, and has at least one season where he was the top center. It's pretty comparable to where Malkin stood when he re-signed.

Then you add in the fact that the salary cap is deflated, and there is projected to be a huge rise in a few years once escrow is paid off. That is going to make star players apprehensive to leave money on the table, because a contract like this will age nicely, even as MacKinnon exits his prime.

MacKinnon got roughly 76.3 percent of max salary. The highest he could have signed for was 16.5M (assuming max is based on this year's salary cap, and not next year). Unless MacKinnon and Matthews take discounts, they are both getting more than 76.3 percent of max salary. So your idea that he's not McDavid isn't a reason why he shouldn't have gotten more than McDavid is signed for now. McDavid signed his contract years ago under a lower salary cap. He also took a discount. Even so, MacKinnon's extension has a cap hit percentage lower than the RFA deal McDavid signed. Relative to the cap ceiling, this MacKinnon deal is not as good as the one McDavid signed, even with McDavid taking a discount at the time.
CEO a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 17 h 27
#84
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mars 2017
Messages: 23,771
Mentions "j'aime": 7,649
Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
He is payed a lot less than McDavid. McDavids contract would have been worth around 13.7 this year.

Two things: he's not nearly as good as McDavid, and McDavid's contract is paying for his prime years not his twilight years.

Past 2 years combined
McDavid: 136, 77-151-228
MacKinnon: 113, 52-101-153

McDavid's contract covers ages to 21 to 29.
MacKinnon's contract covers ages 28 to 36.

Artemi Panarin is a better comp for MacKinnon, both for contract and production. McDavid is on a different level altogether.
20 sept. 2022 à 17 h 29
#85
couldnt afford 2nd t
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 430
This site should have a ranking of highest cap hit percentages at the time a deal was signed.

It's not a perfect science, because teams were still trying to figure out the cap when it was first introduced, and didn't approach it the same way they do now. I think it would still help people contextualize each contract.

Toews and Kane signed for almost the same cap hit percentage as MacKinnon.

McDavid's RFA deal was higher.

Tavares, Price, Kopitar, Karlsson, Malkin, and Crosby were all over 14 percent (Crosby signed for more than 8 years, or else he'd be much higher).

This MacKinnon deal is up there with the largest cap hit percentage deals in cap history, but it isn't absurdly high. There are lots of deals that have been within 1 percent of this one. We have also seen how the perception of the salary cap is leading to players getting locked down at max term at AAVs that in different times might be considered high or risky. Both players and execs know that the cap is artificially deflated, and anything longer than 4 years is going to be a big risk for the player.
20 sept. 2022 à 17 h 51
#86
Canes hockey.
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: nov. 2020
Messages: 265
Mentions "j'aime": 331
He earned this money, you can say it's not worth it or whatever. Or that it's not a team first mentality but he got the cup, and he might not get one ever again but he deserves to get paid. It's the cost of Stanley cups, might look bad in year 7/8 but with the cap rising it'll soften the blow.
20 sept. 2022 à 18 h 13
#87
Go Avs Go
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 122
Mentions "j'aime": 72
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
You're looking at his past to determine his future. History shows that he's already past his prime when the deal starts. On the bright side, the Cap is going to skyrocket so it won't be bad.


Fair enough his production - really does matter a lot if he can keep within 90% average over the next 5 years I think it plays out well. Considering Crosby seems to his sudo mentor I think he might have a few elite seasons left in the tank
20 sept. 2022 à 18 h 18
#88
Go Avs Go
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 122
Mentions "j'aime": 72
Quoting: CD282
Two things: he's not nearly as good as McDavid, and McDavid's contract is paying for his prime years not his twilight years.

Past 2 years combined
McDavid: 136, 77-151-228
MacKinnon: 113, 52-101-153

McDavid's contract covers ages to 21 to 29.
MacKinnon's contract covers ages 28 to 36.

Artemi Panarin is a better comp for MacKinnon, both for contract and production. McDavid is on a different level altogether.


I agree that McDavid is a few years younger - and they both do have different playing styles. I wouldn't say McDavid is light years ahead of him though. I don't think Panarin is a fair comparison that is undercutting him a bit. Also, the whole Wing vs center debate plays a factor.

Mcdavid, Matthews, Eichel, Point - accounting for age - games played etc might be better comparisons some a bit more than others
20 sept. 2022 à 19 h 17
#89
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: nov. 2018
Messages: 9,069
Mentions "j'aime": 2,198
Should have let him walk away as an UFA or better yet trade him.

They got a Cup win. That's all they need.

Look towards the 'Hawks team Av fans.... you know this is true.
20 sept. 2022 à 19 h 27
#90
couldnt afford 2nd t
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 430
Panarin is a good comparison in terms of context. He was offered an 8 year 12M AAV contract by Columbus. He rejected it, and took less to sign with a more prestigious team. MacKinnon stayed with his team and signed 12.6M x 8 years under a slightly higher cap. Their production is very similar, although MacKinnon is a bit ahead of him. They are a similar age (at the time of signing). MacKinnon plays the more valuable position.

That is a 600k difference between what Panarin was offered by Columbus before even adjusting for the cap (although the difference would be minimal).

People are getting stuck on McDavid's AAV. McDavid got a higher cap hit percentage. He was an RFA. It was also leaked that he agreed to 13.5M and then decided to take a discount, but I am suspicious of the validity of that. It seems like a planted story.

McDavid, Matthews, and Draisaitl will all get more than MacKinnon here. Those are the only three players with contracts coming up who have been anywhere near as productive as MacKinnon. MacKinnon has been the third most productive player in the game since he broke out in 2017-18, with Kucherov slightly ahead of him, and McDavid ahead of both of them on his own tier.

If you look at historical cap hit percentages, this is not at all out of line. Especially when you consider how the deflated cap due to escrow might have played into expectations that players and teams have about where the cap ceiling will be a few years into any deal signed now.
Internetkingz a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 19 h 33
#91
couldnt afford 2nd t
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 430
Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Should have let him walk away as an UFA or better yet trade him.

They got a Cup win. That's all they need.

Look towards the 'Hawks team Av fans.... you know this is true.


Penguins signed Malkin to a contract with a similar cap hit percentage to this one, and went on to win multiple cups.

The cap is going to skyrocket in 2-4 years when escrow is paid off. The cap has only gone up 11.1M in the time since the contracts given to Toews and Kane kicked in. The cap was projected to rise as high as 88.2M for the 2020-21 season before COVID cratered revenues and put the players in negative escrow to the owners. That 88.2M max ceiling was before accounting for the US TV deal. Based on that, it doesn't seem outlandish to expect something close to 100M or higher very soon after escrow is paid off in 2-4 years. Unlike what happened with Toews and Kane's contracts, all these big long contracts that people are trashing are going to deflate immensely compared to the cap ceiling, and so long if the players signed to them keep up a reasonable level of play, they will be a good deal.
20 sept. 2022 à 19 h 53
#92
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juill. 2021
Messages: 1,038
Mentions "j'aime": 541
Quoting: CJets
Auston Matthews probably has a big smile on his face right now


I’m not so sure. If Matthews is hoping to get $15M AAV for 8 years, I don’t think he can argue that he deserves $2.4M more than MacKinnon. I do believe that goal scorers are worth more than guys who get most of their points from assists, but I think that’s a minority opinion. Matthews will be a year younger when his extension kicks in, which is worth something because that will be a prime year, and he’ll be signing a year later so he may benefit from some across-the-board inflation in the cap goes up significantly, but I don’t think those things add up to almost $20M over the duration of the contract. Unless Matthews jumps to something like 70 goals and 120 points and takes the team deep into the playoffs, I think he’ll be seen as being in the same class as MacKinnon, but not another level above him.

Of course, that doesn’t mean he can’t ask for $15M, and it doesn’t mean he won’t get it, but it won’t be because of MacKinnon. It’ll be because of leverage. Everybody knew MacKinnon wanted to stay in Colorado, but if Matthews says, “give me what I want or I’ll play out my contract and leave,” I think they’ll believe him.

If I was Matthews, I might be inclined to sign a 2-year extension with Toronto. That would give him a couple more shots at winning a cup there, and then he’d be a UFA at 28, which we’ve seen is still young enough to earn a big contract with maximum term. If the cap goes up like people are saying, waiting those two years before signing long term could get him a significantly higher AAV, and if he wants to go home, the Coyotes might actually be a decent team by then. They’re not going to be good when his current contract runs out.
20 sept. 2022 à 20 h 3
#93
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2015
Messages: 20,030
Mentions "j'aime": 12,187
Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Should have let him walk away as an UFA or better yet trade him.

They got a Cup win. That's all they need.

Look towards the 'Hawks team Av fans.... you know this is true.


How will you justify mattthews making more despite never winning a playoff round
20 sept. 2022 à 20 h 33
#94
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 9,379
Mentions "j'aime": 3,695
Quoting: budgeteam
Panarin is a good comparison in terms of context. He was offered an 8 year 12M AAV contract by Columbus. He rejected it, and took less to sign with a more prestigious team. MacKinnon stayed with his team and signed 12.6M x 8 years under a slightly higher cap. Their production is very similar, although MacKinnon is a bit ahead of him. They are a similar age (at the time of signing). MacKinnon plays the more valuable position.

That is a 600k difference between what Panarin was offered by Columbus before even adjusting for the cap (although the difference would be minimal).

People are getting stuck on McDavid's AAV. McDavid got a higher cap hit percentage. He was an RFA. It was also leaked that he agreed to 13.5M and then decided to take a discount, but I am suspicious of the validity of that. It seems like a planted story.

McDavid, Matthews, and Draisaitl will all get more than MacKinnon here. Those are the only three players with contracts coming up who have been anywhere near as productive as MacKinnon. MacKinnon has been the third most productive player in the game since he broke out in 2017-18, with Kucherov slightly ahead of him, and McDavid ahead of both of them on his own tier.

If you look at historical cap hit percentages, this is not at all out of line. Especially when you consider how the deflated cap due to escrow might have played into expectations that players and teams have about where the cap ceiling will be a few years into any deal signed now.


Why do you think panarin is a good comparison?

The two years before the deal panarin had
160 gp 55 g and 169 pts
Over 82 GP that's 28 g and 87 points

MacKinnon
113 gp 52 g and 153 pts

Over 82 GP that's 38 g and 111 pts

They're incomparable. If you go with 4 years to match panarins career in the NHL the difference is bigger

MacKinnon is in the tier below McDavid (perhaps McDavid and Matthews) with draisaitl. He's above panarin. He's certainly way above panarin before panarin joined the Rangers.
Internetkingz a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 21 h 35
#95
couldnt afford 2nd t
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2021
Messages: 1,011
Mentions "j'aime": 430
Quoting: BCAPP
Why do you think panarin is a good comparison?

The two years before the deal panarin had
160 gp 55 g and 169 pts
Over 82 GP that's 28 g and 87 points

MacKinnon
113 gp 52 g and 153 pts

Over 82 GP that's 38 g and 111 pts

They're incomparable. If you go with 4 years to match panarins career in the NHL the difference is bigger

MacKinnon is in the tier below McDavid (perhaps McDavid and Matthews) with draisaitl. He's above panarin. He's certainly way above panarin before panarin joined the Rangers.


From the time Panarin debuted in the league, until he signed with the Rangers, which was 4 seasons total, he had the 8th most points of any player in the league. MacKinnon has had the 4th most points in the league since his break out season in 17-18.

If you extend performance to after Panarin signed with the Rangers, the last two seasons, MacKinnon has 1.35 P/PG, Panarin has 1.32 P/PG. Their production has basically mirrored one another since 18-19.

No comparable is going to be on the money, but they are reasonably close. Panarin was offered 12M by the Blue Jackets, which he turned down. MacKinnon's contract is nothing insane or ground breaking. Given all the circumstances, he got something around what he should get. People just get sticker shock every time a big contract is signed.
Internetkingz a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 22 h 46
#96
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: nov. 2018
Messages: 9,069
Mentions "j'aime": 2,198
Quoting: coga16
How will you justify mattthews making more despite never winning a playoff round


Matthews will be getting traded, Eric Lindros size trade.

Plan the parade, like when the Nords traded Eric and went onto a Cup victory as the Av's.
20 sept. 2022 à 22 h 48
#97
torontos finest
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juill. 2019
Messages: 9,546
Mentions "j'aime": 11,169
Quoting: coga16
How will you justify mattthews making more despite never winning a playoff round


if the leafs crash and burn again i hope they use this point in negotiations
20 sept. 2022 à 22 h 55
#98
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2015
Messages: 9,379
Mentions "j'aime": 3,695
Quoting: budgeteam
From the time Panarin debuted in the league, until he signed with the Rangers, which was 4 seasons total, he had the 8th most points of any player in the league. MacKinnon has had the 4th most points in the league since his break out season in 17-18.

If you extend performance to after Panarin signed with the Rangers, the last two seasons, MacKinnon has 1.35 P/PG, Panarin has 1.32 P/PG. Their production has basically mirrored one another since 18-19.

No comparable is going to be on the money, but they are reasonably close. Panarin was offered 12M by the Blue Jackets, which he turned down. MacKinnon's contract is nothing insane or ground breaking. Given all the circumstances, he got something around what he should get. People just get sticker shock every time a big contract is signed.


There is zero reasons to compare what panarin has done AFTER signing the contract if you're comparing the contracts they signed. That was not known at the time. Before the contract he was about a ppg player. Specifically he had 320 pts in 322 gp in 4 years

In the last 4 years MacKinnon has scored 345 pts in 264 gp

So about an 81 pt player to a 107 pt player. Incomparable.

The only reason they seem similar is panarin exploded AFTER he signed his contract from an 80ish pt player to a 95ish pt player.

They are pretty poor comparisons for the point of this cobtract
SydBarrett a aimé ceci.
20 sept. 2022 à 22 h 56
#99
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2015
Messages: 20,030
Mentions "j'aime": 12,187
Quoting: mondo
if the leafs crash and burn again i hope they use this point in negotiations


no matter what, a Hart winner and back to back Rocket Richard winner wont be going into UFA thinking he wont ask for more than a 1m raise. Despite what happens in the playoffs, hes getting well beyond 1m more aav to top 12.6m
20 sept. 2022 à 23 h 47
#100
I make Articals.
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2021
Messages: 1,129
Mentions "j'aime": 368
holy sh-
 
Répondre
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Chargement de l'animation
Soumettre les modifications du sondage