Forums/Armchair-GM

Sundqvist Lindstrom

Créé par: Richard88
Date de création initiale: 18 sept. 2022
Publié: 18 sept. 2022
Équipe: 2022-23 Avalanche du Colorado
Explications
Just playing around with ideas on how the Avs can open a little bit of capspace to roll with a 22 or 23 man roster to not have to waive Kaut and still cover bonuses, along with adding a young RHD since the Avs RHD pipeline is completely bare. Feedback welcomed.
Transactions
1.
COL
  1. Sundqvist, Oskar (750 000 $ retained)
  2. Lindström, Gustav
Détails additionnels:
Compher to Sundqvist is a downgrade skill-wise, but that swap adds a bit of size to the bottom 6 which otherwise lacks it, along with $1.5m capspace which allows them to roll a 23 man roster (instead of a 21 man roster) and still have ~$2m capspace to cover bonuses. Having the ability to roll a 23 man roster allows the Avs to not waive Kaut or Maltsev.

Sundqvist has some question marks about his health which is also an important factor.

Avs also add a young depth RHD to the pipeline who can potentially replace EJ as #6D in 2023.
DET
  1. Compher, J.T.
  2. Beaucage, Alex
Détails additionnels:
Detroit get a versatile ~0.5ppg forward with ties to Michigan (former Michigan captain). Compher plays all situations, and is younger, a better center, and produces more than Sundqvist.

After the trade Detroit can sign Strålman or Subban 1x1 to replace Lindstrom.

Avs add a pick or prospect, I've used Beaucage but it could be another prospect of preference or a mid round pick.
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2023
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
2024
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
2025
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
Logo de COL
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2382 500 000 $80 165 833 $25 000 $3 987 500 $2 334 167 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de COL
Landeskog, Gabriel
7 000 000 $
AG, C
NMC
UFA - 7
Logo de COL
MacKinnon, Nathan
6 300 000 $
C, AD
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo de COL
Nichushkin, Valeri
6 125 000 $
AD, AG
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo de COL
Lehkonen, Artturi
4 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 5
Logo de COL
Rantanen, Mikko
9 250 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 3
Logo de COL
Rodrigues, Evan
2 000 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
Logo de COL
Newhook, Alex
908 333 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
Logo de COL
Meyers, Ben
912 500 $
AG, C
RFA - 1
Logo de DET
Sundqvist, Oskar
2 000 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de COL
Cogliano, Andrew
1 250 000 $
AG
UFA - 1
Logo de COL
Helm, Darren
1 250 000 $
C, AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de COL
O'Connor, Logan
1 050 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 3
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de COL
Toews, Devon
4 100 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de COL
Makar, Cale
9 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 5
Logo de COL
Francouz, Pavel
2 000 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de COL
Girard, Samuel
5 000 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 5
Logo de COL
Manson, Josh
4 500 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de COL
Georgiev, Alexandar
3 400 000 $
G
UFA - 3
Logo de COL
Byram, Bowen
894 167 $
DG
RFA - 1
Logo de COL
Johnson, Erik
6 000 000 $
DD
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de COL
Kaut, Martin
863 333 $
AD
RFA - 1
Logo de DET
Lindström, Gustav
850 000 $
DD
RFA - 1
Logo de COL
MacDermid, Kurtis
987 500 $
DG/DD, AG
UFA - 2

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18 sept. à 10 h 27
#1
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Detroit declines.

Detroit isn't going to trade two NHL players for a rental and an AHL-player and absolutely not retain salary on top.
18 sept. à 10 h 30
#2
Isles5513
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Quoting: Billy12Bob
Detroit declines.

Detroit isn't going to trade two NHL players for a rental and an AHL-player and absolutely not retain salary on top.


Sundqvist is a rental too… but I wouldn’t move Lindstrom for Compher anyway
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18 sept. à 10 h 35
#3
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COL isn’t going to run 23 and is unlikely to run 22 just because it restricts accruing cap, it is also the reason MacDermid is on the team because he covers the 13F/7D position, if you aren’t playing him in that role there is no reason to have him on the team.
18 sept. à 10 h 38
#4
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John 3 16
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Quoting: Xqb15a
COL isn’t going to run 23 and is unlikely to run 22 just because it restricts accruing cap, it is also the reason MacDermid is on the team because he covers the 13F/7D position, if you aren’t playing him in that role there is no reason to have him on the team.


The AVS would have roughly the same amount of capspace after this trade with a 23 man roster as they would before the trade with a 21 man roster.... so your argument doesn't really make sense.

MacDermid would still get games when Bednar wants an enforcer but this allows them to keep Kaut as an option.

Alternatively you could get rid of the retention and waive Kaut for a 22 man roster, it works out about the same.
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18 sept. à 10 h 39
#5
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John 3 16
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Quoting: Billy12Bob
Detroit declines.

Detroit isn't going to trade two NHL players for a rental and an AHL-player and absolutely not retain salary on top.


Sundqvist is a rental as well, so between him and Compher it's probably a wash if there's retention.

What do you think Lindstrom's value is in isolation?
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18 sept. à 10 h 52
#6
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Two reasons this wouldn't work for Detroit.
1) Using a salary retention spot is going to be valuable this season. The return on this trade for one of those spots seems like a waste, considering how many UFAs the Wings have.
2) RHD could be the weakest position Detroit has in the pipeline. Tuomisto is the only prospect as of now that projects as an NHL player in that spot. Losing a 23 year old 5-7 D who is cost controlled would compound that problem.
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18 sept. à 10 h 52
#7
NoWah49
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This deal is probably more suited for around Christmas time. I can see the Avs doing this when they figure out who's gonna play 2C
18 sept. à 10 h 57
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John 3 16
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Quoting: CoachCoach
Two reasons this wouldn't work for Detroit.
1) Using a salary retention spot is going to be valuable this season. The return on this trade for one of those spots seems like a waste, considering how many UFAs the Wings have.
2) RHD could be the weakest position Detroit has in the pipeline. Tuomisto is the only prospect as of now that projects as an NHL player in that spot. Losing a 23 year old 5-7 D who is cost controlled would compound that problem.


Fair points. Maybe remove the retention to fix issue no.1.

As for point 2, what do you think Lindstrom's value would be in isolation? I.e. what would it take for Yzerman to part with him?

Also note that I said that Detroit could sign Subban or Strålman to replace him. And beyond 2023 they also have a lot of capspace to target guys in UFA like Zub, Mayfield, Dumba etc.
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18 sept. à 10 h 58
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John 3 16
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Quoting: NoWah49
This deal is probably more suited for around Christmas time. I can see the Avs doing this when they figure out who's gonna play 2C


The longer into the season we go the less incentive there will be for the Avs to move Compher, unless there are loads of injuries impacting capspace/accrual/bonus coverage. That could change though if Kaut takes a roster spot, but JTC is Bednar's favourite so I doubt that.
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18 sept. à 11 h 34
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Quoting: Richard88
Fair points. Maybe remove the retention to fix issue no.1.

As for point 2, what do you think Lindstrom's value would be in isolation? I.e. what would it take for Yzerman to part with him?

Also note that I said that Detroit could sign Subban or Strålman to replace him. And beyond 2023 they also have a lot of capspace to target guys in UFA like Zub, Mayfield, Dumba etc.


Hard to say what Lindstrom leaving looks like. I would think a 4th round would be enough (value wise) as he will be primarily a bottom pair, but I can't see SY risking that unless other moves are made. Being 23, his raise probably shoots to 1.5Mx3 at worst (outside of blasting off this season and having an outlier season).

I did notice you mentioned those FAs. While they wouldn't be the worst options, other factors are involved. Take into account SY went out and signed damn near everyone. He found the guys he wanted and paid for them. It wouldn't make sense to now give up on a younger guy for another one year player, unless the return took care of another deficiency. Compher upgrades over Sundqvist, but they both are most likely gone by the deadline.
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18 sept. à 11 h 34
#11
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Insanely hard pass. Lindstrom is criminally underrated, rather have Sunny than Compher for need and role and Beaucage is an averge prospect at best.
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18 sept. à 11 h 36
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John 3 16
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Quoting: DeadWingsv2
Insanely hard pass. Lindstrom is criminally underrated, rather have Sunny than Compher for need and role and Beaucage is an averge prospect at best.


What do you think Lindstrom's trade value is in isolation?
18 sept. à 11 h 36
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Quoting: CoachCoach
Hard to say what Lindstrom leaving looks like. I would think a 4th round would be enough (value wise) as he will be primarily a bottom pair, but I can't see SY risking that unless other moves are made. Being 23, his raise probably shoots to 1.5Mx3 at worst (outside of blasting off this season and having an outlier season).

I did notice you mentioned those FAs. While they wouldn't be the worst options, other factors are involved. Take into account SY went out and signed damn near everyone. He found the guys he wanted and paid for them. It wouldn't make sense to now give up on a younger guy for another one year player, unless the return took care of another deficiency. Compher upgrades over Sundqvist, but they both are most likely gone by the deadline.

Massively undervaluing Lindstrom. I wouldn't even trade him as his value is far higher than anyone would give.

He isn't flashy, so people don't appreciate him, but he's ridiculously good defensively.
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18 sept. à 11 h 38
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John 3 16
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Quoting: DeadWingsv2
Massively undervaluing Lindstrom. I wouldn't even trade him as his value is far higher than anyone would give.

He isn't flashy, so people don't appreciate him, but he's ridiculously good defensively.


Fair points. Thanks for your feedback.
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18 sept. à 11 h 39
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Quoting: Richard88
What do you think Lindstrom's trade value is in isolation?

What teams would give and what Detroit SHOULD move him for are miles apart. I wouldn't even trade him as his value is far higher than anyone would give.
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18 sept. à 12 h 1
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Quoting: DeadWingsv2
Massively undervaluing Lindstrom. I wouldn't even trade him as his value is far higher than anyone would give.

He isn't flashy, so people don't appreciate him, but he's ridiculously good defensively.


Not under valuing, just putting the player in isolation. Meaning for production, age, contract, etc. as a blank slate. I personally wouldn’t get rid of him unless it was for a ridiculous overpay. His value to the wings is what makes him unique.
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18 sept. à 13 h 4
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Quoting: Richard88
The AVS would have roughly the same amount of capspace after this trade with a 23 man roster as they would before the trade with a 21 man roster.... so your argument doesn't really make sense.

MacDermid would still get games when Bednar wants an enforcer but this allows them to keep Kaut as an option.

Alternatively you could get rid of the retention and waive Kaut for a 22 man roster, it works out about the same.


How do, carrying an extra guy counts roughly $900k per guy. In addition COL has traditionally run 21 when healthy the proximity of the Eagles was to help do this. The problem now is the shortage of waiver exempt players. Kaut needs to make the team and stick or be moved even if it is a case of him being claimed. But come on man look at what they were doing last year sending guys like Newhook down in paper transactions to accrue every penny possible. The cap is so tight for the majority of teams especially those in contention lots of teams are going to be doing those things and running as small a roster as possible.
18 sept. à 13 h 35
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Quoting: Richard88
Sundqvist is a rental as well, so between him and Compher it's probably a wash if there's retention.

What do you think Lindstrom's value is in isolation?


For Detroit it's high. We have no replacement for him and no prospect in the pipeline that can be relied on to take his place. As a cost controlled defensive defender that we're in short supply of the offer would have to be really high for us to trade him.

Sunny is younger and cheaper and is better suited for the 4th line job that is the one available. I doubt Compher would do that job as well as Sunny does.
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18 sept. à 14 h 32
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Lindstrom in my opinion should take a first to get. Really good defensive guy who moves the puck quite well. Perfectly suited for a third pairing roll that can step up to second pairing if need be. He was a -12 when the team was a -83, I think that says something. He was drafted in the second round and developed into a NHL player so we would need to at least recoup that cost. Being he is only 23 and still getting better it would take a big overpay to acquire him. Compher isn't really a fit anymore and we like what Sunny brings.
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18 sept. à 15 h 15
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Lindstrom is still an RFA, Don't see Yzerman dealing him anytime soon.

Yzerman has said at several of his pressers, That it's every bit his attention to resign Oskar Sundqvist before free agency.
18 sept. à 18 h 41
#21
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John 3 16
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Quoting: Xqb15a
How do, carrying an extra guy counts roughly $900k per guy. In addition COL has traditionally run 21 when healthy the proximity of the Eagles was to help do this. The problem now is the shortage of waiver exempt players. Kaut needs to make the team and stick or be moved even if it is a case of him being claimed. But come on man look at what they were doing last year sending guys like Newhook down in paper transactions to accrue every penny possible. The cap is so tight for the majority of teams especially those in contention lots of teams are going to be doing those things and running as small a roster as possible.


So long as they have ~$2.5m in capspace free for bonuses and accrual it won't be a problem to carry more than 21 players.

Anyways this is all hypothetical and it's unlikely that a trade like this transpires now. The Avs will simply have to bite the bullet with Kaut and waive him if he doesn't beat someone for a job unless they can find a trade partner.
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18 sept. à 18 h 44
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John 3 16
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Quoting: Billy12Bob
For Detroit it's high. We have no replacement for him and no prospect in the pipeline that can be relied on to take his place. As a cost controlled defensive defender that we're in short supply of the offer would have to be really high for us to trade him.

Sunny is younger and cheaper and is better suited for the 4th line job that is the one available. I doubt Compher would do that job as well as Sunny does.


Quoting: Lancebmx
Lindstrom in my opinion should take a first to get. Really good defensive guy who moves the puck quite well. Perfectly suited for a third pairing roll that can step up to second pairing if need be. He was a -12 when the team was a -83, I think that says something. He was drafted in the second round and developed into a NHL player so we would need to at least recoup that cost. Being he is only 23 and still getting better it would take a big overpay to acquire him. Compher isn't really a fit anymore and we like what Sunny brings.


Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
Lindstrom is still an RFA, Don't see Yzerman dealing him anytime soon.

Yzerman has said at several of his pressers, That it's every bit his attention to resign Oskar Sundqvist before free agency.


Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses. I agree with what you've said. Detroit should hold on to Lindström barring an offer too good to refuse.
 
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