Not getting a 3rd team to retain and extra %50 on Murray was the real issue for me. That extra (2,343,750) would sure be nice right now. And since they don't seem to be anyway moving Kerfoot, bringing back Engvall at (2,250,000) seems unneccassy with they've added NAK, ZAR (possibly) and Jarnkrok.

That's a little over 4.5 mil you'd have to resign Sandin and still look at adding another player.


Those are the two moves I'd like to have changed in hindsight.

so, they're worse?
if the leafs wanted to move holl for FC he'd be gone

engvall at 2m is also alot of money given his production, i understand hes a better scorer than kampf but overall they are very simliar and should be paid in the same range. 1.5M to 1.75, also kampf has a bigger role defensively running the first pk unit and being a +50% faceoff which engvall doesnt come close to

In your opinion, how could it be better instead of worse?

because Murray is better than Mrazek and Sandin cant play the right side, so the defence is worse

I honestly think that it was overkill for them to sign Calle Jarnkrok, Pierre Engvall, AND NAK. They're all similar types of players - 3rd liners who contribute some offense but aren't going to be huge play drivers for you. That's $5.3M tied up in three guys that are all, for better or worse, Slightly Worse Alex Kerfoots. And now you're looking at dumping Kerfoot for nothing(or next to nothing if you're lucky) because you tied up all that cap space in them.

My response to that is threefold:


1. Swapping Mrazek for Murray has done nothing but take up cap space.


2. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-rasmus-sandin-comfortable-playing-right-side-needed/


3. You seem to prefer the status quo under Kyle Dubas et al.

jarnkrok was to assure our third line center has term imo, i think dubas knows kampf will be testing free agency to earn more $

1-Murray is a better goalie than Mrazek, so having mrazek there instead of murray makes the team worse.
2-And Sandin's results at RD are terrible, he may be 'comfortable' there, but he is not good on the right side at all. Not to mention that Holl is actually a decent 4RD, so that also makes the team worse
3-every fan of a team that is not trying to tank would prefer status quo then making the team worse, this might be confusing for a fan of a team that wont make the playoffs again

i believe its hard to compare if this team would be better or worse than the current team, because the current team is unfinished i believe. they need to dump a contract to be cap compliant and sign sandin, once they do that and we'll know the term of new contract, it would be easier to compare those what ifs scenarios.

just to play off your first point - which would you rather have:

1: 30 games of Matt Murray putting up a .905ish SV%, taking up $4.6875M this year and next, plus that 3rd & 7th Ottawa sent along;
2: 30 games of Petr Mrazek putting up a .900ish SV%, taking up $3.8M this year and next, plus whatever assets you turned 25 OA into(better prospect, or trading back for multiple picks, as OP described)

Obviously this is assuming they let Samsonov take the ball and run with it as the starter. The difference between the 2 would be 4-5 goals over 30 games, but with an extra $900K in cap space available. And, of course, this presupposes a little bit of a bounce back from Mrazek, but he's a career .909 goalie who put up .888 last year - I don't think positive regression back towards .900 playing behind this Toronto team would be unheard of.

As far as the Sandin thing, I honestly feel like Dubas overplayed his hand here. I can't imagine he went into the offseason not knowing how Sandin felt and what his demands were going to be, and he then put himself in a corner where the only way he can make him fit is by sacrificing Alex Kerfoot and/or Justin Holl for nothing. It almost feels like the better move now is to trade him off for futures - I have a hard time figuring out how he fits on the 2022-23 Leafs, unless Jake Muzzin gets pancaked by a dump truck driver or something like that.

1 ---- I might have a chance of believing you If you showed me a post of your's from before the Matt Murray trade where you said the same thing.



2 ---- https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/10/29/sheldon-keefe-on-healthy-scratching-justin-holl/

https://thehockeywriters.com/maple-leafs-have-questions-about-justin-holl/

https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2022/03/01/rasmus-sandin-joins-morgan-rielly-on-the-leafs-top-defensive-pairing.html



3 ---- Having Sandin/Mrazek on your team instead of Holl/Murray is not exactly tanking or making the team worse.

If I wanted the Leafs to tank, I would have traded Nylander in this ACGM.

And you would be more confused and miserable than you are now.

Also, saying that Ottawa won't make the playoffs again after adding DeBrincat/Giroux/Joseph/Sanderson is a bit of a stretch.

Id take the better goalie every time, the leafs arnt playing for 4-5 goals every 30 games, they're playing for 1 goal in a playoff game. Murray has been there and done that and mrazek has a 'may self destruct randomly ' feature.

As far as sandin goes, if he's too grumpy to earn his spot on the roster, that's him over playing his hand. Not dubas

1-Go right ahead and show me where i said that mrazek is better than murray and a straight up swap makes the leafs better
2-lol a hockey writters article and a star article. Way to ruin your own point
3-yes it does make them worse.

1 ---- That's not what I'm looking for.

What I'm looking for is something you said before July 11th where you suggest that Murray is a better goalie than Mrazek.

Not whether the Leafs should make a straight up swap with the Sens that involves the two goalies.

The point of this is to determine how much credibility you have left.



2 ---- Since when do you make the rules on which articles ruin the points that trigger you?



3 ---- If there's one thing it makes worse, it's your hurt feelings.

1- so you arnt looking for something where i say mrazek would make the team worse than murray, but you're looking for something where i say mrazekis better than murray? Go nuts with that homie

2-since when do articles written by notoriously terrible hockey sites and writers mean anything?

3-you seem to be really focused on feelings right now, do you need some time to sort through yours so you can talk hockey like an adult?

1 ---- Matt Murray was an Ottawa Senator before July 11th.

He was traded to Toronto by Ottawa on July 11th.

There has been no NHL hockey since July 11th.

I've suggested that the only difference in value between Murray and Mrazek is their cap hit.

You've suggested multiple times in this thread that Murray is better than Mrazek.

I'm asking you to show me something you said or wrote before July 11th where you suggested Murray is better than Mrazek.



You know exactly what I'm asking for.

It's a very simple task.

There is no need to twist my words.

Your credibility is on the line.



There's no sense in responding to your other two points if you have no credibility left.

Bro, do your own homework, im not putting in the leg work so your feelings can feel heard.
My credibility doesnt hinge on your self satisfying nonsense.
And of course you arnt gonna respond, defending using the toronto star and the hockey writers is impossible and you know it.

According to you, Matt Murray is better than Petr Mrazek.

But you can't point out to me where you said that when Murray was an Ottawa Senator.

Even though there has been no NHL hockey since we traded Murray to your favourite team, the Toronto Maple Leafs.



There's no point in searching for something that I won't be able to find from you.

Your credibility is gone.

according to you Mrazek is better than Murray, yet you cant point out a single instance before July 22nd, 2020 where you said that. Clearly your credibility is gone.

I just did in this ACGM.

Mrazek is only better than Murray because he has a lower cap hit over the next two years.

Other than that, they would both have no future on the Leafs other than as a backup for Samsonov or as a placement on LTIR.

And blurting out some random date from 2 years ago doesn't make you any less flustered.




You have two choices.

1) Show me where you said Murray is better than Mrazek before Ottawa traded Murray to Toronto

or

2) Continue fibbing like a fibbing fibber with your next comment.



It's up to you, bigshot.

Mrazek isnt better than Murray by any standard as worse players are most often cheaper than better ones. Murray had better numbers, sv%, WAR, high danger sv%, goals saved above expected and many many more.
So yeah, id say he's a better goalie, and you'd know that if you put any effort into it at all.
Now your options are you can provide anything other than whining about some comment that may or may not exist from me or you can just acknowledge your idea is terrible and easily disproved.
it's up to you, big shot

So, you've chosen option #2 by continuing to fib like a fibbing fibber.

Good to know.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Yeah, just like i thought, you have nothing and are too big of a coward to face it and the moment you realized you cant wriggle out of it by chasing some phantom quote you bailed.

The thing with Mrazek vs Murray is the injuries

Mrazek suffered 3 groin injuries while Murray got Covid then run over by Zaitsev causing a concussion and LBI

3 groin injuries to me signals this guys maybe done next year while if the Leafs protect Murray should get 40 games out of him. Just pray Zaitsev doesnt decide to do a barrel run

In general Murray is very familiar with most of the guys at MLSE and if there's one team who could probs get something out of him its Toronto. As familiarity can often bring out the best in someone. But in general Leafs finished 4th with Campbell having one good month and Mrazek being **** to the point of Kallgren kicking him out lul. If Murray and Sammy do avg goaltending then I see Toronto finishing exact same or heck potentially better.

But in general I see him being better than Mrazek was for us