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Would You Have Traded Zucker

Créé par: JSEB93
Équipe: 2022-23 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Date de création initiale: 8 sept. 2022
Publié: 8 sept. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
PLEASE READ: This is a hypothetical scenario where the Pens traded Zucker back at the start of free agency. Which would then free up the money to sign someone like Burakovsky. These are not trades that I am currently proposing at this date.

This scenario is based on the recent report that an unnamed team inside the Metro division offered to take Zucker for a 1st round pick. To Islanders fans - I just threw a dart and it hit NYI. There's no real reason I picked them.

So - would you essentially trade Zucker and a 1st for a guy like Burakovsky? Or maybe Palat, Copp, Strome, Trocheck - any other guy who signed in the offseason in that 5.5mil range?
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PIT
    A bag of slightly used pucks
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    1. Zucker, Jason
    2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (PIT)
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      Not an actual trade. Just for this mock scenario
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      8 sept. 2022 à 12 h 28
      #51
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      He’s weak and will get pushed around a lot. Seems stupid too.
      Dump him
      8 sept. 2022 à 12 h 54
      #52
      1GarthSnowFan
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      Quoting: JSEB93
      For sure there is. But just getting younger guys doesn't help - you can't just sign people because they're younger that's not how you win. I haven't seen any younger guys that would have been better than signing Malkin and Letang. Petry is better than Marino, and POJ/Smith are younger than Matheson. I'm not sure what else could have been done better.


      I would’ve traded Dumoulin at the Draft and signed E-Rod over Rackell and Rutta. Sometimes less is more.
      8 sept. 2022 à 13 h 8
      #53
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      Quoting: Isles5513
      I would’ve traded Dumoulin at the Draft and signed E-Rod over Rackell and Rutta. Sometimes less is more.


      So you would have made the team significantly worse lol?

      You're trading your top pair LHD who you have no replacement for. Rakell and Erod are the same age and Rakell is obviously better.
      8 sept. 2022 à 13 h 11
      #54
      1GarthSnowFan
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      Quoting: JSEB93
      So you would have made the team significantly worse lol?

      You're trading your top pair LHD who you have no replacement for. Rakell and Erod are the same age and Rakell is obviously better.


      E-Rod wouldn’t command more than 3 and 9 and had similar production to Rackell last year. Dumoulin is expiring and had the most value of any of their d men. I would promote Pettersson into a top four role and call up Joseph.
      8 sept. 2022 à 13 h 54
      #55
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      Quoting: Isles5513
      E-Rod wouldn’t command more than 3 and 9 and had similar production to Rackell last year. Dumoulin is expiring and had the most value of any of their d men. I would promote Pettersson into a top four role and call up Joseph.


      I have nothing against Erod - I'm actually a big defender of his - but he's obviously not as good as Rakell. And why is Rakell the one you are sacrificing as opposed to Kapanen, Rutta, Heinen, etc? Just seems weird to not sign the top 6 forward instead of one of the bottom 6 or 3rd pair players and be able to sign Erod with their money.

      Dumoulin did probably have okay value - I just worry about a left side of Pettersson/POJ/Smith. I just think Rakell/Dumo is significantly better than Erod/POJ.
      8 sept. 2022 à 13 h 57
      #56
      1GarthSnowFan
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      Quoting: JSEB93
      I have nothing against Erod - I'm actually a big defender of his - but he's obviously not as good as Rakell. And why is Rakell the one you are sacrificing as opposed to Kapanen, Rutta, Heinen, etc? Just seems weird to not sign the top 6 forward instead of one of the bottom 6 or 3rd pair players and be able to sign Erod with their money.

      Dumoulin did probably have okay value - I just worry about a left side of Pettersson/POJ/Smith. I just think Rakell/Dumo is significantly better than Erod/POJ.


      I prefer Marino/Matheson to Smith/Petry. I think the former are way more defensively responsible and just over all more reliable than the latter two.
      8 sept. 2022 à 15 h 30
      #57
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      Quoting: Isles5513
      I prefer Marino/Matheson to Smith/Petry. I think the former are way more defensively responsible and just over all more reliable than the latter two.


      That's fine - you're obviously entitled to your opinion and I think you can make the argument either way. I'm not sure I would say way more though. Marino was great defensively but Matheson was subpar. Those two combined might be better defensively overall, but they're also worse offensively than Petry/Smith. Given the fact that our defense was great last year and we lacked any kind of offense from our D - I think I'll take the latter. Either way it's pretty even
      8 sept. 2022 à 16 h 17
      #58
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      Quoting: JSEB93
      Interesting - I would have loved to see how they would fit Trocheck without trading Zucker lol. It will be tough for those guys to step up though considering only one of them will probably make the team. I don't know where this idea came from that Rutta can play the left side - he's played the right side his entire career. Also, then that means you would have Pettersson playing top pair?

      I'm fine with them keeping Zucker honestly - if healthy I think he brings value. Although I'm not sure it's a win win. If he doesn't bounce back or gets hurt then you just wasted a year of an already very small window. And that 1st rounder isn't going to help in this window at all.

      Yeah Kap and McGinn's contracts are definitely bad. Rutta's contract might not be bad but the signing just didn't make sense and seems like wasted money there too


      If they signed Trocheck then they probably don’t sign Kappy to that contract and probably trade McGinn (which they might still do)
      Rutta has played the left at points in his career. Hexy said he could fit well with any of the pens defensemen. And you also have this here…
      https://www.si.com/nhl/penguins/.amp/news/pittsburgh-penguins-sign-defenseman-jan-rutta

      I’m ok having Pettersson playing top pair. He gets paid well enough, he needs to take that next step and all he really needs to be is the defensive presence on that pair. It could be like how Rutta was for Tampa bay too. Plays top pair but only gets like 16-17 minutes. He and Marino were used largely against NYR top scoring line which is why the rangers top scoring line sucked the first 5 games.
      Again if Zucker gets hurt then he can go on LTIR for cap relief and you can use the 1st rounder to bring in a more useful player. Trading the 1st rounder for nothing helps this teams current window even less. Most teams don’t start handing out 1st rounders like candy on Halloween until the TDL.
      9 sept. 2022 à 9 h 31
      #59
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      Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
      If they signed Trocheck then they probably don’t sign Kappy to that contract and probably trade McGinn (which they might still do)
      Rutta has played the left at points in his career. Hexy said he could fit well with any of the pens defensemen. And you also have this here…
      https://www.si.com/nhl/penguins/.amp/news/pittsburgh-penguins-sign-defenseman-jan-rutta

      I’m ok having Pettersson playing top pair. He gets paid well enough, he needs to take that next step and all he really needs to be is the defensive presence on that pair. It could be like how Rutta was for Tampa bay too. Plays top pair but only gets like 16-17 minutes. He and Marino were used largely against NYR top scoring line which is why the rangers top scoring line sucked the first 5 games.
      Again if Zucker gets hurt then he can go on LTIR for cap relief and you can use the 1st rounder to bring in a more useful player. Trading the 1st rounder for nothing helps this teams current window even less. Most teams don’t start handing out 1st rounders like candy on Halloween until the TDL.


      Damn - imagine how much better that team would be with a Trocheck/Doc(or equivalent) combo instead of Kap/McGinn lol. Rutta really hasn't played the left though. If you go through and look at all of his D partners throughout his entire career he's spent basically his entire time on the right. Even all the way back to Chicago.

      I agree Pettersson needs to take that next step - replacing Dumo is just a giant next step haha. I'm just hoping he can be good with a full time 2nd pair role and increased minutes. Pettersson, Rutta, Smith/POJ would be a pretty weak left side - unless SMith or POJ prove to be a 2nd pair player this year

      I get your point, but it's not that simple. You're assuming he gets a season ending injury. If Zucker just gets hurt for like 3 weeks a couple of times you can't just trade the first rounder for another player - because you lose the LTIR relief when he comes back and then you're not cap compliant. And it wouldn't be trading it for nothing. You would be signing someone with Zucker's money. So it would be like trading Zucker and a 1st for someone like Burakovsky or Trocheck.

      Like I've said I'm fine either way - but the argument can definitely be made to do it.
      9 sept. 2022 à 11 h 1
      #60
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      Quoting: JSEB93
      Damn - imagine how much better that team would be with a Trocheck/Doc(or equivalent) combo instead of Kap/McGinn lol. Rutta really hasn't played the left though. If you go through and look at all of his D partners throughout his entire career he's spent basically his entire time on the right. Even all the way back to Chicago.

      I agree Pettersson needs to take that next step - replacing Dumo is just a giant next step haha. I'm just hoping he can be good with a full time 2nd pair role and increased minutes. Pettersson, Rutta, Smith/POJ would be a pretty weak left side - unless SMith or POJ prove to be a 2nd pair player this year

      I get your point, but it's not that simple. You're assuming he gets a season ending injury. If Zucker just gets hurt for like 3 weeks a couple of times you can't just trade the first rounder for another player - because you lose the LTIR relief when he comes back and then you're not cap compliant. And it wouldn't be trading it for nothing. You would be signing someone with Zucker's money. So it would be like trading Zucker and a 1st for someone like Burakovsky or Trocheck.

      Like I've said I'm fine either way - but the argument can definitely be made to do it.


      The point with Rutta though is he is capable to. I’d have rather just not signed him and stuck with Ruhwedel at 3Rd and Marino at 2RD. The Marino trade really didn’t make sense Once they went out and immediately after traded Matheson for Petry. Petry and Letang both need defensive minded guys and both are signed for at least 3 years. Neither POJ or Smith will be a good partner for those guys. So they kind of hamstring themselves there by opening up only 1 LD spot for 2 players.

      It still wouldn’t be worth it even for a Burakovsky or Copp. I mean getting out of one short term bad contract to hamstring yourself down the line and paying a 1st to do so just doesn’t make sense.
      JSEB93 a aimé ceci.
      9 sept. 2022 à 11 h 43
      #61
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      Quoting: Hockeyfan1234
      The point with Rutta though is he is capable to. I’d have rather just not signed him and stuck with Ruhwedel at 3Rd and Marino at 2RD. The Marino trade really didn’t make sense Once they went out and immediately after traded Matheson for Petry. Petry and Letang both need defensive minded guys and both are signed for at least 3 years. Neither POJ or Smith will be a good partner for those guys. So they kind of hamstring themselves there by opening up only 1 LD spot for 2 players.

      It still wouldn’t be worth it even for a Burakovsky or Copp. I mean getting out of one short term bad contract to hamstring yourself down the line and paying a 1st to do so just doesn’t make sense.


      Is he actually capable though is my worry. I mean obviously he can physically play the spot - but how effective would he be? Especially if you're going to have him on the first or second pairing. I agree - I think the signing made no sense and Ruhwedel is more than capable for that 3RD. I was fine with the Marino trade at first because I thought Rutta was his replacement and they would use that money on a forward - but to then trade for Petry didn't make much sense to me either. The defense and pairings are just in a weird spot as you said I agree.

      That's the thing though is you hamstring yourself down the line to get better now because the window is very short. Every team does this. Whether or not you agree with it or think it's not worth it - it does make sense. If you assume you have a 3 year window - you would want to maximize the team potential each year
      9 sept. 2022 à 14 h 31
      #62
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      Quoting: JSEB93
      Is he actually capable though is my worry. I mean obviously he can physically play the spot - but how effective would he be? Especially if you're going to have him on the first or second pairing. I agree - I think the signing made no sense and Ruhwedel is more than capable for that 3RD. I was fine with the Marino trade at first because I thought Rutta was his replacement and they would use that money on a forward - but to then trade for Petry didn't make much sense to me either. The defense and pairings are just in a weird spot as you said I agree.

      That's the thing though is you hamstring yourself down the line to get better now because the window is very short. Every team does this. Whether or not you agree with it or think it's not worth it - it does make sense. If you assume you have a 3 year window - you would want to maximize the team potential each year


      The issue with hamstringing yourself down the line is that you’re going to need better players years 3-6 (assuming Crosby and Letang play the next 6 years) than you should need years 1 & 2 as both those players are still playing at the top of their game. So I’d rather hope for Zucker to just rebound and get out of his contract this year and after 2 years getting out of the Carter, Kapanen, (hopefully McGinn) contracts and possibly getting better free agents. The issue with doing that trade then signing a guy like Burakovsky is that what if Burakovsky has the same issues when he gets here? You’ve now hamstrung yourself in the present and future. Not to mention in two years the cap should start going up significantly more than it is now.
      Point is…it’s a risk either way and the pens do need a minor league team a good minor leaguers too that they will be able to call up because as this team gets older, the more injuries they will have.
       
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