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If I was GM

Créé par: Kyle_Okposo_Lover
Équipe: 2022-23 Islanders de New York
Date de création initiale: 31 août 2022
Publié: 31 août 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
UFAANSCAP HIT
11 000 000 $
Transactions
1.
NYI
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (DAL)
Détails additionnels:
Bailey probably doesnt have negative value but this is probably something that neither side with be upset with.
CHI
  1. Bailey, Josh
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (NYI)
  3. Choix de 5e ronde en 2024 (NYI)
2.
NYI
  1. Ehlers, Nikolaj
  2. Choix de 5e ronde en 2023 (WPG)
  3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2024 (WPG)
Détails additionnels:
Top 5 protected pick
WPG
  1. Beauvillier, Anthony
  2. Dufour, William
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (NYI)
Détails additionnels:
I want to make this clear: Debrincat got a high first, 2nd and 3rd.

A very solid prospect, young top 6 player and first rounder are not as much as high 1st, 2nd and 3rd but they are close. This is his value
Rachats de contrats
Enfoui
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2023
Logo de NYI
Logo de DAL
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
Logo de WPG
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
2024
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
Logo de WPG
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
2025
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
Logo de NYI
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2382 500 000 $77 664 963 $245 796 $1 287 500 $4 835 037 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Jets de Winnipeg
6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Islanders de New York
7 000 000 $7 000 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Islanders de New York
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance537 500 $$538K)
AD
RFA - 1
Logo de Islanders de New York
7 000 000 $7 000 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de Islanders de New York
6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
C, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 3
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Islanders de New York
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de Islanders de New York
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Islanders de New York
1 200 000 $1 200 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Islanders de New York
2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
C
UFA - 5
Logo de Islanders de New York
1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Islanders de New York
1 100 000 $1 100 000 $
AG
UFA - 4
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Islanders de New York
5 750 000 $5 750 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 7
Logo de Islanders de New York
6 150 000 $6 150 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 8
Logo de Islanders de New York
4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de Islanders de New York
2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
DG
RFA - 3
Logo de Islanders de New York
4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
DD
RFA - 3
Logo de Islanders de New York
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Islanders de New York
800 000 $800 000 $
DG
RFA - 2
Logo de Islanders de New York
1 450 000 $1 450 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Islanders de New York
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Islanders de New York
750 000 $750 000 $ (Bonis de performance750 000 $$750K)
AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Islanders de New York
825 000 $825 000 $
DG
UFA - 2

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31 août 2022 à 10 h 41
#1
1GarthSnowFan
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Seems like an overpay for Ehlers imo.
31 août 2022 à 10 h 43
#2
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Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: Isles5513
Seems like an overpay for Ehlers imo.


i felt that way too. its just hard to judge because of how little debrincat got so I am not sure of what the market will be at
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31 août 2022 à 10 h 44
#3
1GarthSnowFan
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
i felt that way too. its just hard to judge because of how little debrincat got so I am not sure of what the market will be at


I mean Ehlers is closer to Bjorkstrand than DeBrincat. I think taking back salary means that Ehlers would cost full price and Winnipeg doesn’t have cap issues either. It just seems like a deal the isles shouldn’t make given how deep the next draft class is.
31 août 2022 à 10 h 47
#4
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That looks like a pretty easy trade for Winnipeg to turn down. There's nothing there that makes Winnipeg think about trading an untouchable player.
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31 août 2022 à 10 h 47
#5
Future Norris guy
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Ehlers isn't available.

And if it only took a 2nd and 5th round pick to move Josh Bailey, he'd have been gone long ago.
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31 août 2022 à 10 h 47
#6
Go Jets Go
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If that's the return for Ehlers, WPG gladly holds onto him.
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31 août 2022 à 10 h 57
#7
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Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
Ehlers isn't available.

And if it only took a 2nd and 5th round pick to move Josh Bailey, he'd have been gone long ago.


He isnt gone because Lou treats him like his son. He wouldve been gone in 2019-20 if Lou wasnt in love with him. 14 -30-44 in 74 is not some terrible production for a 5 mil player who plays PK.

I hate Bailey and I think he sucks, but he is a player who can easily play 16+ mins a night, play for a year and then get flipped at half retained for a 2nd+B prospect. So a team gets solid production, a 1000 game veteran with experience who will help develop the young guys and a few picks and players getting given to them
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31 août 2022 à 10 h 58
#8
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Disagree with your assessment of the Ehler package. Think it would take more. Although I thought debrincat would too so who knows.
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31 août 2022 à 11 h 3
#9
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Quoting: vikhodush
Disagree with your assessment of the Ehler package. Think it would take more. Although I thought debrincat would too so who knows.


Quoting: Rooney
If that's the return for Ehlers, WPG gladly holds onto him.


Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
Ehlers isn't available.

And if it only took a 2nd and 5th round pick to move Josh Bailey, he'd have been gone long ago.


Quoting: Windjammer
That looks like a pretty easy trade for Winnipeg to turn down. There's nothing there that makes Winnipeg think about trading an untouchable player.


Jets fans have been doing this for years:

I am curious to what yall would would say a fair package is for Ehlers?
Keep in mind this is his past 3 year stat line:
25-33-58 in 71
21-25-46 in 47
28-27-55 in 62

He is very good, but keep in mind the Debrincat got a high 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
These are his stats:
18-27-45 in 70
32-24-56 in 52
41-37-78 in 82

Debrincat also had a 3.5 WAR this year, higher than Ehlers bets career year of 2.6 in 2017-18
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31 août 2022 à 11 h 10
#10
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
Jets fans have been doing this for years:

I am curious to what yall would would say a fair package is for Ehlers?
Keep in mind this is his past 3 year stat line:
25-33-58 in 71
21-25-46 in 47
28-27-55 in 62

He is very good, but keep in mind the Debrincat got a high 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
These are his stats:
18-27-45 in 70
32-24-56 in 52
41-37-78 in 82

Debrincat also had a 3.5 WAR this year, higher than Ehlers bets career year of 2.6 in 2017-18


Fortunately for Winnipeg, a bad trade made by Chicago has no effect on the asking price for Ehlers. If you want Ehlers, the deal includes either Dobson or Pulock.
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31 août 2022 à 11 h 10
#11
we miss leo k
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I think the obvious issue with the Ehlers trade is that there's been no indication out of Winnipeg that they'd be doing anything that would require that sort of move. They have the cap space, there's no moves out there that I can see them making that would require them moving Ehlers' cap hit, and they don't seem to be rebuilding (to be fair, they don't seem to be doing much of anything?). That's the only reason I think that you'd have to go a little higher than the Debrincat package - they're not actively shopping him, nor is there a specific asset the Isles have that the Jets would want (like how Chicago had a real jones for getting 7OA in this year's draft). I think if something shifted and Ehlers was all of a sudden expendable, then yeah, this package gets it done - but for now there's no real reason for the Jets to be moving him out. Jets pass on this deal because it's not enough value, and Isles pass on adding enough to make it worthwhile for the Jets.
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31 août 2022 à 11 h 40
#12
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
Jets fans have been doing this for years:

I am curious to what yall would would say a fair package is for Ehlers?
Keep in mind this is his past 3 year stat line:
25-33-58 in 71
21-25-46 in 47
28-27-55 in 62

He is very good, but keep in mind the Debrincat got a high 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
These are his stats:
18-27-45 in 70
32-24-56 in 52
41-37-78 in 82

Debrincat also had a 3.5 WAR this year, higher than Ehlers bets career year of 2.6 in 2017-18


I’m not a Jets fan, I just like Ehlers. If this was the price I would hope the Canes matched a similar offer. I feel like CHI blundered the Cat trade so I see it as more of anomaly versus a good comp. Would probably want to scan more trades with similar level players and situations over the past few years to see how this offer stacks up. I honestly don’t know what that would look like and maybe I’m wrong.
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31 août 2022 à 11 h 51
#13
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Quoting: Windjammer
That looks like a pretty easy trade for Winnipeg to turn down. There's nothing there that makes Winnipeg think about trading an untouchable player.


What makes him untouchable? Because that is an absolute overpay for Ehlers and WPG would be wise to accept it, if it were on the table. That isn't even a knock on Ehlers in the least bit. But Dufour, Beauvillier, AND a 2023 1st... That is a haul that would help them now and in the future.
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31 août 2022 à 12 h 25
#14
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Quoting: Garak
What makes him untouchable? Because that is an absolute overpay for Ehlers and WPG would be wise to accept it, if it were on the table. That isn't even a knock on Ehlers in the least bit. But Dufour, Beauvillier, AND a 2023 1st... That is a haul that would help them now and in the future.


He's arguably Winnipeg's best forward is why he's untouchable. You might think it's a lot, but none of the pieces will ever come close to replacing what Ehlers provides for the Jets, unless they get extremely lucky with the pick.

That's why there isn't anything there that Winnipeg would consider.
31 août 2022 à 12 h 51
#15
Luguber
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
Jets fans have been doing this for years:

I am curious to what yall would would say a fair package is for Ehlers?
Keep in mind this is his past 3 year stat line:
25-33-58 in 71
21-25-46 in 47
28-27-55 in 62

He is very good, but keep in mind the Debrincat got a high 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
These are his stats:
18-27-45 in 70
32-24-56 in 52
41-37-78 in 82

Debrincat also had a 3.5 WAR this year, higher than Ehlers bets career year of 2.6 in 2017-18


The good old eye test has told me Ehlers is a really important piece for the Jets, a turner of tides in games that doesn't go very well for them, if you will.
So yes, if the Jets were to trade him,the asking price would be just a tad higher than what's offered here I presume. But I don't have a good counter offer in mind I'm afraid.
Points and charts mean alot, not everything though.
31 août 2022 à 15 h 57
#16
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Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: vikhodush
I’m not a Jets fan, I just like Ehlers. If this was the price I would hope the Canes matched a similar offer. I feel like CHI blundered the Cat trade so I see it as more of anomaly versus a good comp. Would probably want to scan more trades with similar level players and situations over the past few years to see how this offer stacks up. I honestly don’t know what that would look like and maybe I’m wrong.


Quoting: Windjammer
He's arguably Winnipeg's best forward is why he's untouchable. You might think it's a lot, but none of the pieces will ever come close to replacing what Ehlers provides for the Jets, unless they get extremely lucky with the pick.

That's why there isn't anything there that Winnipeg would consider.


Quoting: Luguber
The good old eye test has told me Ehlers is a really important piece for the Jets, a turner of tides in games that doesn't go very well for them, if you will.
So yes, if the Jets were to trade him,the asking price would be just a tad higher than what's offered here I presume. But I don't have a good counter offer in mind I'm afraid.
Points and charts mean alot, not everything though.


Quoting: Garak
What makes him untouchable? Because that is an absolute overpay for Ehlers and WPG would be wise to accept it, if it were on the table. That isn't even a knock on Ehlers in the least bit. But Dufour, Beauvillier, AND a 2023 1st... That is a haul that would help them now and in the future.


Quoting: Windjammer
Fortunately for Winnipeg, a bad trade made by Chicago has no effect on the asking price for Ehlers. If you want Ehlers, the deal includes either Dobson or Pulock.


A DY+1 QMJHL MVP Winner, top 6 forward who just turned 25 and a first in a stacked draft class is somehow not enough for you people.

These excuses are:
The eye test--> Oh yeah you probably like Seth Jones too lol
Liking Ehlers--> I like Wahlstrom, doesnt mean he is worth 10 picks
"Points and charts mean alot, not everything though." --> Oh so what matters? Just your opinion? Well I think Chara is worth 10 first round picks. Why? Because I like him.
Winnipeg wouldnt consider anythihng--> Winnipeg was considering moving Scheiffele and Wheeler, nobody is untouchable.
Hawks blundered with Debrincat trade --> No they didnt. There was a huge bidding war going on and they took the best offer. No team is going to offer more for Ehlers. Debrincat is undoubtedly a better player, any negotiating team will just refer to that trade. Jets can decline, but thinking you will get more is just flat out not using your brain


Anyways, if anyone has an actual trade comparable or legitimate reason that my mock trade is unfair, then please lmk. But until then, have a good night.
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31 août 2022 à 16 h 0
#17
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
A DY+1 QMJHL MVP Winner, top 6 forward who just turned 25 and a first in a stacked draft class is somehow not enough for you people.

These excuses are:
The eye test--> Oh yeah you probably like Seth Jones too lol
Liking Ehlers--> I like Wahlstrom, doesnt mean he is worth 10 picks
"Points and charts mean alot, not everything though." --> Oh so what matters? Just your opinion? Well I think Chara is worth 10 first round picks. Why? Because I like him.
Winnipeg wouldnt consider anythihng--> Winnipeg was considering moving Scheiffele and Wheeler, nobody is untouchable.
Hawks blundered with Debrincat trade --> No they didnt. There was a huge bidding war going on and they took the best offer. No team is going to offer more for Ehlers. Debrincat is undoubtedly a better player, any negotiating team will just refer to that trade. Jets can decline, but thinking you will get more is just flat out not using your brain


Anyways, if anyone has an actual trade comparable or legitimate reason that my mock trade is unfair, then please lmk. But until then, have a good night.


Lol you cherry-picked the first part of my comment as a reason for not agreeing with your trade when I provided more rationale and even admitted that there was a good chance I’d be wrong in my comment. So much for having an open minded convo. No point interacting if you’re so hell bent on your own opinion.
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31 août 2022 à 16 h 11
#18
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Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: vikhodush
Lol you cherry-picked the first part of my comment as a reason for not agreeing with your trade when I provided more rationale and even admitted that there was a good chance I’d be wrong in my comment. So much for having an open minded convo. No point interacting if you’re so hell bent on your own opinion.


This is your comment:

I’m not a Jets fan, I just like Ehlers. If this was the price I would hope the Canes matched a similar offer. I feel like CHI blundered the Cat trade so I see it as more of anomaly versus a good comp. Would probably want to scan more trades with similar level players and situations over the past few years to see how this offer stacks up. I honestly don’t know what that would look like and maybe I’m wrong.

What did I miss? You said you liked him and that Chicago blundered the trade. I asked you to please give me another comparable. Nobody has given me a comparable. I would use the Tkachuk trade but he is a tier above these guys and also got traded for another star player and there were a solid amount of politics going on.

I have an open mind, but nobody provided any statistical or historical data. Im not here to argue by saying how "I just like this player" or "this player is a leader and is untouchable", etc.

Give me a data point, a comparable, something that is a fact, not an opinion. Not your opinion. If not caring about how much you "like" someone makes me close minded, then oh well
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31 août 2022 à 16 h 32
#19
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
This is your comment:

I’m not a Jets fan, I just like Ehlers. If this was the price I would hope the Canes matched a similar offer. I feel like CHI blundered the Cat trade so I see it as more of anomaly versus a good comp. Would probably want to scan more trades with similar level players and situations over the past few years to see how this offer stacks up. I honestly don’t know what that would look like and maybe I’m wrong.

What did I miss? You said you liked him and that Chicago blundered the trade. I asked you to please give me another comparable. Nobody has given me a comparable. I would use the Tkachuk trade but he is a tier above these guys and also got traded for another star player and there were a solid amount of politics going on.

I have an open mind, but nobody provided any statistical or historical data. Im not here to argue by saying how "I just like this player" or "this player is a leader and is untouchable", etc.

Give me a data point, a comparable, something that is a fact, not an opinion. Not your opinion. If not caring about how much you "like" someone makes me close minded, then oh well


My I like the player comment was in response to you calling me a jets fan, which I’m not.

The rest of my statement was that I’d need to see similar comps over the last few years instead of solely basing it off of a deal that is widely considered as blundered. Each situation also has context (player age, contract status, team control, team/player actively being shopped, etc.)

I’m not dropping everything to pull trades from the last 5 years to look for comps. My point was to make an informed decision one would need to assess comps for similar players and situations versus looking at one data point. Never said you were wrong or I was right, but I don’t care enough to do all that research and you are clearly set in your ways and like cherry picking comments for some reason, so no point in continuing this conversation.
31 août 2022 à 16 h 35
#20
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Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: vikhodush
My I like the player comment was in response to you calling me a jets fan, which I’m not.

The rest of my statement was that I’d need to see similar comps over the last few years instead of solely basing it off of a deal that is widely considered as blundered. Each situation also has context (player age, contract status, team control, team/player actively being shopped, etc.)

I’m not dropping everything to pull trades from the last 5 years to look for comps. My point was to make an informed decision one would need to assess comps for similar players and situations versus looking at one data point. Never said you were wrong or I was right, but I don’t care enough to do all that research and you are clearly set in your ways and like cherry picking comments for some reason, so no point in continuing this conversation.


i was responding to like 5 people, not just use lmao.

Your original comment was saying that you disagreed with the Ehlers value. What did you base that off of? You did say I was wrong when you said you disagreed.

Saying that you dont care enough to research is just a cop out lol. but whatever, have a good one
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31 août 2022 à 16 h 48
#21
Bedard23
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Quoting: Windjammer
Fortunately for Winnipeg, a bad trade made by Chicago has no effect on the asking price for Ehlers. If you want Ehlers, the deal includes either Dobson or Pulock.


The return was low because instead of an overhaul Davidson wants to tank
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31 août 2022 à 16 h 54
#22
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
i was responding to like 5 people, not just use lmao.

Your original comment was saying that you disagreed with the Ehlers value. What did you base that off of? You did say I was wrong when you said you disagreed.

Saying that you dont care enough to research is just a cop out lol. but whatever, have a good one


Disagreeing with an opinion means we have differing opinions, not that I’m saying you’re wrong. Especially when I literally said “I might be wrong” in the second part of the statement.

Obviously I know you multi quoted - you still called mine out and cherry picked a small portion of it while ignoring the rest of my statement because it made more sense for your comment.

Giroux, Copp, Lindholm come to mind as getting better or equal returns for half a year of those guys as opposed to multi year control where the player was being actively shopped. Not a cop out to say I don’t want to go down a rabbit hole, still don’t. Just don’t enjoy when my statements are cherry picked during an argument.
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31 août 2022 à 16 h 57
#23
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Quoting: IconicHawk
The return was low because instead of an overhaul Davidson wants to tank


Totally understandable. The problem here is that the OP thinks it is a be all, end all evaluator that he can use to justify poor offers, when you have rightfully pointed out there was a reason for the low return.
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31 août 2022 à 17 h 3
#24
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Josh Anderson Sucks
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Quoting: vikhodush
Disagreeing with an opinion means we have differing opinions, not that I’m saying you’re wrong. Especially when I literally said “I might be wrong” in the second part of the statement.

Obviously I know you multi quoted - you still called mine out and cherry picked a small portion of it while ignoring the rest of my statement because it made more sense for your comment.

Giroux, Copp, Lindholm come to mind as getting better or equal returns for half a year of those guys as opposed to multi year control where the player was being actively shopped. Not a cop out to say I don’t want to go down a rabbit hole, still don’t. Just don’t enjoy when my statements are cherry picked during an argument.


Again, what part of your comment did I miss?

and lets go through the trades. Ill do the work for you:

Giroux: 2024 first-round pick, a 2023 third-round pick and forward Owen Tippett, with the first-round pick being top-10 protected. That isnt even close to what Ehlers got
Lindhom: Urho Vaakanainen, John Moore, a 2022 first-round draft pick, a 2023 second-round draft pick and a 2024 second-round draft pick. Thats not close to this, but that also included a cap dump. So a first, two 2nds and cap dump for Lindholm makes approximate sense for how the market was at that time.
Copp: Even tho at the time it was even less with conditions, the trade ended up being 30OVR, 55OVR and Morgan Barron. Thats much less than what I have here AND is after every condition was met.

So these arent equal returns, or even close.

I have no idea what I cherry picked? What part of your arguement did I not mention? Ill assess it all again here:

- First part doesnt matter, fans of any team can have opinions on anything
- hawks didnt blunder, they got tons of offers and picked the best one
- you want to see more comps --> yeah so do I. thats what i am asking for, yet nobody has given a comp that proves me wrong
notkyleokposo a aimé ceci.
31 août 2022 à 17 h 20
#25
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Quoting: oliver_wahlstrom
Again, what part of your comment did I miss?

and lets go through the trades. Ill do the work for you:

Giroux: 2024 first-round pick, a 2023 third-round pick and forward Owen Tippett, with the first-round pick being top-10 protected. That isnt even close to what Ehlers got
Lindhom: Urho Vaakanainen, John Moore, a 2022 first-round draft pick, a 2023 second-round draft pick and a 2024 second-round draft pick. Thats not close to this, but that also included a cap dump. So a first, two 2nds and cap dump for Lindholm makes approximate sense for how the market was at that time.
Copp: Even tho at the time it was even less with conditions, the trade ended up being 30OVR, 55OVR and Morgan Barron. Thats much less than what I have here AND is after every condition was met.

So these arent equal returns, or even close.

I have no idea what I cherry picked? What part of your arguement did I not mention? Ill assess it all again here:

- First part doesnt matter, fans of any team can have opinions on anything
- hawks didnt blunder, they got tons of offers and picked the best one
- you want to see more comps --> yeah so do I. thats what i am asking for, yet nobody has given a comp that proves me wrong


1. You did say I was wrong when you said you disagreed - I didn't say you were wrong, literally said I might be wrong lol it's an opinion, just like yours
2. Liking Ehlers--> I like Wahlstrom, doesnt mean he is worth 10 picks - cherry picked reasoning

Didn't think I'd have to spell out the context (which really matters) but here you go:

A first and a top prospect for Giroux isn't far off the Cat return, especially when you factor in it was for 3 months of service and Philly had 0 leverage since this is the only place Giroux was willing to go.

A first & 2 2s for Lindholm is pretty close to a 1 2 3 that Cat got which you were using as a comp. Sure it included a small cap dump but an in season trade to a team that was selling and had cap space isn't the same as a true cap dump in the off season to solely clear space - most in season trades have salary coming back, especially in a tight cap world like we're in today. It's also, again, for 3 months of service.

A first, second & a Bish prospect is again pretty close to the Cat return, and yet again it was for 3 months of service.

How about Hagel? 2 firsts and a couple prospects / cheap players which makes sense since there's more team control involved in that one, but the return is pretty close to Cat return which is crazy b/c Cat is way better than Hagel (in other words this is a data point showing Cat deal was bungled).

I mean geez, even Dvorak got a 1st and a 2nd and he's half the player Cat is lol

I had no conviction in my opinion before but the more you think back at recent examples and dig into the data points / comps, the more it shows that the Cat deal was in fact an outlier so if that's what you're basing your trades off it's not a good example.

I'm sure this won't be enough for you and you'll discount the context of each scenario though smile
tsyls et NoVaSpartan a aimé ceci.
 
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