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I feel like trades like this are more likely than some I see here

Créé par: BCAPP
Équipe: 2022-23 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 28 août 2022
Publié: 28 août 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I'm not saying any of these specific trades are likely. More just that I see a lot of, presumably Habs fans, on here making trades that move futures to make Montreal better today and that just doesn't seem either smart nor logical. They're rebuilding. They shouldn't be spending assets to dump their ****ty contracts. If anything they should charge people to take their ****ty contracts like they did Calgary.


Also before somebody says it: I did not put Slafkovsky on the team. If he forces his way on with his training camp than power to him. Otherwise I don't see the rush to put him into a likely losing season. Let him develop in the AHL while guys like Drouin/byron/Dadonov finish their contracts and Armia and Hoffman get closer to the end.

Give Hoffman good pp time maybe he'll regain enough value to flip him for neutral return.

One thing you'll notice is I picked up bad contracts but they're all short. Don't pick up long term bad contracts. Accept the pain this year and maybe next and it will be better in the long run
Transactions
1.
MTL
  1. Kaut, Martin
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2025 (COL)
Détails additionnels:
Doesn't have to be Colorado. Just a team that seems like they could use some low cost c depth. Because that's what Dvorak is. Don't kid yourself. He's a middle 6 c/w. A bit of a Swiss army knife. Expect a mid tier return.
COL
  1. Dvorak, Christian
Détails additionnels:
I was going to do like a 2nd and 4th but they don't have a second. So instead a recent first round pick who still has upside but is getting lower by the day and a middle pick a couple years in the future. Stocking the cupboards and all
2.
MTL
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (COL)
Détails additionnels:
Not actually anaheim. Just any team needing some scoring presuming Drouin plays decently.
ANA
  1. Drouin, Jonathan (2 750 000 $ retained)
3.
MTL
  1. Gardiner, Jake
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (CAR)
  3. Choix de 4e ronde en 2024 (CAR)
CAR
    Future considerations
    4.
    MTL
    1. Zucker, Jason
    2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (PIT)
    3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (NJD)
    PIT
    1. Dadonov, Evgeni (2 500 000 $ retained)
    5.
    MTL
    1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2025 (TBL)
    Détails additionnels:
    Edmundson seems to have that, decent player on a decent contract that if the Habs retain he can be one of those guys Tampa would like beyond his skill for the cap friendliness.

    This only makes sense if they play sergachev on the right. If on the left it does not

    Also because the 1st is 2 years away add a decent but not special prospect. I don't know Tampa's organization well enough to know who it would be.
    TBL
    1. Edmundson, Joel (1 750 000 $ retained)
    Rachats de contrats
    Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
    Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
    2023
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    2024
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    2025
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    TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
    2182 500 000 $76 139 999 $1 132 500 $1 995 000 $6 360 001 $
    Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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    880 833 $880 833 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
    AG, AD
    UFA - 1
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    7 875 000 $7 875 000 $
    C
    UFA - 8
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    AD, AG
    M-NTC, NMC
    UFA - 5
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    AG
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    6 375 000 $6 375 000 $
    C, AG, AD
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
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    5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
    AD, AG
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    AG, AD
    UFA - 2
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    863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance425 000 $$425K)
    AD
    RFA - 1
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    3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
    AG, AD
    UFA - 1
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    1 700 000 $1 700 000 $
    C
    UFA - 3
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    3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
    AD, AG
    UFA - 3
    Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
    Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
    4 875 000 $4 875 000 $
    DG
    M-NTC
    UFA - 4
    Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
    3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
    DD
    UFA - 3
    Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
    2 875 000 $2 875 000 $
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Hurricanes de la Caroline
    4 050 000 $4 050 000 $
    DG
    M-NTC
    UFA - 1
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    925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance212 500 $$212K)
    DD
    RFA - 2
    Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
    1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
    G
    UFA - 2
    Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
    842 500 $842 500 $ (Bonis de performance507 500 $$508K)
    DG/DD
    RFA - 1
    Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
    762 500 $762 500 $
    DD
    UFA - 2
    Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
    Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
    750 000 $750 000 $
    AG, AD
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
    10 500 000 $10 500 000 $
    G
    NMC
    UFA - 4

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    28 août 2022 à 22 h 20
    #1
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    Dvorak has more value to MTL than that return so that one is a pass.

    The rest seem like screaming deals for MTL so I'm all about that.
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    28 août 2022 à 22 h 26
    #2
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    Tampa isnt giving up another 1st and a prospect for Edmundson. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd+something small, but if a 1st+ is the cost, let another team get fleeced.
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    28 août 2022 à 22 h 41
    #3
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    Quoting: JTBF81
    Tampa isnt giving up another 1st and a prospect for Edmundson. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd+something small, but if a 1st+ is the cost, let another team get fleeced.


    Oh **** I meant to retain him at 50%. Lol.

    Would it make more sense then?
    28 août 2022 à 22 h 44
    #4
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    You're not getting a 2nd out of Carolina for Gardiner when they do not have to move him. They can bury him and make it work as it is. You won't extort high picks out one of the smartest front offices in the sport
    28 août 2022 à 22 h 45
    #5
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    Quoting: Caniac2000
    You're not getting a 2nd out of Carolina for Gardiner when they do not have to move him. They can bury him and make it work as it is. You won't extort high picks out one of the smartest front offices in the sport


    For the record I'm not a Habs fan. As I said these are examples of styles of trades. Make it a 3rd or do it with another team.
    28 août 2022 à 22 h 51
    #6
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    Quoting: BCAPP
    For the record I'm not a Habs fan. As I said these are examples of styles of trades. Make it a 3rd or do it with another team.


    My point is Carolina won't move Gardiner. I didn't even think that this is the Habs and Dundon would personally cut the fingers off of anyone who calls Quebec
    28 août 2022 à 23 h 22
    #7
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    COL doesn’t have the cap space to do that deal until they have accrued a little space but that deal is more than fair.
    28 août 2022 à 23 h 24
    #8
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    Quoting: Xqb15a
    COL doesn’t have the cap space to do that deal until they have accrued a little space but that deal is more than fair.


    I thought they had the space for a smaller piece just not Kadri level? I may be mistaken.

    But I'm glad the cost was fair smile
    28 août 2022 à 23 h 32
    #9
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    Quoting: Caniac2000
    You're not getting a 2nd out of Carolina for Gardiner when they do not have to move him. They can bury him and make it work as it is. You won't extort high picks out one of the smartest front offices in the sport


    "they can bury him and make it work as it is "
    Yup for 4.05/4.05 m
    28 août 2022 à 23 h 36
    #10
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    Quoting: BCAPP
    For the record I'm not a Habs fan. As I said these are examples of styles of trades. Make it a 3rd or do it with another team.


    We have too many UFA's to RS and make a profit on Gardiner to justify it
    We have too many LD as is so the odds of him getting more then his 16 minute average or even get his 16 minutes average here.
    I just dont see a scenario where taking Gardiner makes sense given he cant be buried as his AHL and NHL cap hit are the same.

    Unless CAR is looking to pay we wont be interested
    Your evaluation is on the conservative side of what the maket is asking
    Given CAR was paid to take Pacioretty who had 47 pts in 49 games
    They more then anyone should know that teams arent taking on any contracts without being paid (good or bad)
    28 août 2022 à 23 h 37
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    Quoting: BCAPP
    Oh **** I meant to retain him at 50%. Lol.

    Would it make more sense then?


    It's closer but Tampa can't afford him, even at 50% retained, unless they move salary out. Perhaps if they hadn't signed Cole or kept Myers, but as of now they will be approximately 300k over the cap once Cirelli and Bogo return from ltir. I could see Tampa being potentially more interested in Edmundson going into next season if they are looking for a 3LD, but not now. The player from Montreal I could see Tampa perhaps having the most interest in is Jake Evans, as at 1.7 he could potentially be a solid middle/bottom 6 W/C moving forward. Not sure if he will be made available, but that's who I might target.
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    28 août 2022 à 23 h 46
    #12
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    Quoting: Billy316
    We have too many UFA's to RS and make a profit on Gardiner to justify it
    We have too many LD as is so the odds of him getting more then his 16 minute average or even get his 16 minutes average here.
    I just dont see a scenario where taking Gardiner makes sense given he cant be buried as his AHL and NHL cap hit are the same.

    Unless CAR is looking to pay we wont be interested
    Your evaluation is on the conservative side of what the maket is asking
    Given CAR was paid to take Pacioretty who had 47 pts in 49 games
    They more then anyone should know that teams arent taking on any contracts without being paid (good or bad)


    Wait what are you talking about burying cost? The first 1.25 mil of a players salary does not count against the cap when they're waived. And remember in the above it was after the Edmundson trade.
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    28 août 2022 à 23 h 47
    #13
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    Quoting: JTBF81
    It's closer but Tampa can't afford him, even at 50% retained, unless they move salary out. Perhaps if they hadn't signed Cole or kept Myers, but as of now they will be approximately 300k over the cap once Cirelli and Bogo return from ltir. I could see Tampa being potentially more interested in Edmundson going into next season if they are looking for a 3LD, but not now. The player from Montreal I could see Tampa perhaps having the most interest in is Jake Evans, as at 1.7 he could potentially be a solid middle/bottom 6 W/C moving forward. Not sure if he will be made available, but that's who I might target.


    Yeah I was planning to trade him on this theoretical team but I traded Dvorak first and I just couldn't swallow the c depth trading both. Lol

    I tried to find a Gardiner type player at c (a vet who can play in the NHL at c but is overpaid but I couldn't)
    28 août 2022 à 23 h 58
    #14
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    Quoting: BCAPP
    Wait what are you talking about burying cost? The first 1.25 mil of a players salary does not count against the cap when they're waived. And remember in the above it was after the Edmundson trade.


    Quoting: BCAPP
    Wait what are you talking about burying cost? The first 1.25 mil of a players salary does not count against the cap when they're waived. And remember in the above it was after the Edmundson trade.


    Agreed but that's off the full value of the salary.
    With many players their AHL salary's are lower then their NHL salary
    This means those calculations start from that AHL salary base.

    Your AHL and NHL Cap hits are listed as different for a reason
    Sometimes they're structured with Lower AHL Cap hits to start
    With higher AHL cap hits at the end

    While 1.25m comes off in this care thats still 2.75m left
    With Pacioretty on IR that makes them cap compliant with 22/23 players signed

    So like i said the "Burying cost " is still too high for CAR to absorb
    Im not saying the NHL and AHL cap's are equal overall after the 1.25m is factored in
    I'm saying his contract is structured so it equal so there's no real savings.

    Where as they coulda saved 800k if they did this his first year the way the contrct is structured.
    That 800k woulda bought them a 23rd roster player so it may seem like such a small amount
    But really it actually has a pretty big impact going forward .

    This is all before we factor in a Pacioretty return to a healthy roster
    29 août 2022 à 0 h 2
    #15
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    Quoting: Caniac2000
    What? Did you just have a stroke on your keyboard? This makes no sense


    i'll talk real clear and with greater detail.

    Gardiner this year 4.05/4.05m AHL before the1.25m comes up
    Gardiner year 1 of his deal 3.65/4.05m AHL before 1.25m comes off

    The Cap hit difference is about 800k difference.
    While CAR is cap compliant after Pacioretty is on IR thats with 22/23 men signed
    There for the cost of Burying this player is to high to entertain short term and once Pacioretty returns causes compounded issues.

    Can you do what you suggest?
    Sure
    But can CAR be cap compliant doing it with a 23/23 man roster?
    No
    29 août 2022 à 0 h 9
    #16
    Mr.
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    The 1st one is pretty bad for MTL, you haven't signed dach BTW
    29 août 2022 à 0 h 26
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    Quoting: Billy316
    i'll talk real clear and with greater detail.

    Gardiner this year 4.05/4.05m AHL before the1.25m comes up
    Gardiner year 1 of his deal 3.65/4.05m AHL before 1.25m comes off

    The Cap hit difference is about 800k difference.
    While CAR is cap compliant after Pacioretty is on IR thats with 22/23 men signed
    There for the cost of Burying this player is to high to entertain short term and once Pacioretty returns causes compounded issues.

    Can you do what you suggest?
    Sure
    But can CAR be cap compliant doing it with a 23/23 man roster?
    No


    Carolina never uses a 23 man roster. Sure, they had one with Domi, but that was after the deadline when they picked him up for a longshot prospect and a guy that was never going to come back across. They can do it comfortably.It involves a little finagling, but it is doable once Pacioretty is activated at the trade deadline. Alternatively, they could just waive Martinook and then they're free to do whatever they want, which is also an option. Plus, with guys like Gardiner and Kase on the roster, they're likely not going to have any issues with the cap because of their previous injury history.
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    29 août 2022 à 1 h 37
    #18
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    Quoting: BCAPP
    I thought they had the space for a smaller piece just not Kadri level? I may be mistaken.

    But I'm glad the cost was fair smile


    They should have around $2.5M when the roster completely fills out, CF has 11F w/Sedlak being the 11th (don’t think he makes the team), and 8D w/MacDermid and Englund (don’t think he makes the team either). Take Sedlak & Englund out, put Meyers in for sure, then say Kaut, and they sign a veteran 7th d like Murray for $1M. So even if they moved Kaut they would only have $3.4M.
    29 août 2022 à 2 h 29
    #19
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    Quoting: SMH
    The 1st one is pretty bad for MTL, you haven't signed dach BTW


    That's why the c depth was so bad. I felt like I was missing something
    29 août 2022 à 5 h 40
    #20
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    honestly these aren't that bad.

    maybe make it avs 2nd instead of 3rd to make it fair
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    29 août 2022 à 23 h 9
    #21
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    Quoting: Caniac2000
    Carolina never uses a 23 man roster. Sure, they had one with Domi, but that was after the deadline when they picked him up for a longshot prospect and a guy that was never going to come back across. They can do it comfortably.It involves a little finagling, but it is doable once Pacioretty is activated at the trade deadline. Alternatively, they could just waive Martinook and then they're free to do whatever they want, which is also an option. Plus, with guys like Gardiner and Kase on the roster, they're likely not going to have any issues with the cap because of their previous injury history.


    Fair Enough up until Pacioretty returns part.
    You're talking about taking your 22 man roster down to 20 or 21 to fit Pacioretty's cap even if he misses half the year.
    Its my understanding that if his Cap hit is reflected from the point he plays on if you're saying TDL for a return thats still 2.75-3.5m
    That also means Martinook wouldnt be enough .
    Your hope to solve that problem is your team has players get injured lol
    I mean that's fine as long as you factor in losing other injury prone players like both your Goalies.


    Then again MTL fans were just as insane thinking for years that Price was enough putting our selves in cap hell where we had to skate a 22/23 man roster.
    But that was back when we had Markov/Subban/Gorges to absorb minutes on the back end.
    We kept telling ourselves the front end line up he had was good enough filled with role players and a few good pieces.
    Reality is all we did was waste our Franchise players Prime years as he made it to 2 ECF and a SCF with no run support offensively..
    Its just a shame to see CAR doing that in reverse going all out Offense and wasting AHO Prime years.
    We always pretend in the moment they have years left and it will happen but the reality is not as long as they have a 1 dimensional GM

    Adding Burns helped but for how long
    Your GM makes moves like bringing in Hamilton and Edmundston then downgrades to Tony Dbag and Jake Gardiner right after.
    For every good move he makes he undoes it with a few bad ones like giving away Adam Fox to protect Jake Bean hahahaha
    29 août 2022 à 23 h 21
    #22
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    Quoting: Billy316
    Fair Enough up until Pacioretty returns part.
    You're talking about taking your 22 man roster down to 20 or 21 to fit Pacioretty's cap even if he misses half the year.
    Its my understanding that if his Cap hit is reflected from the point he plays on if you're saying TDL for a return thats still 2.75-3.5m
    That also means Martinook wouldnt be enough .
    Your hope to solve that problem is your team has players get injured lol
    I mean that's fine as long as you factor in losing other injury prone players like both your Goalies.


    Then again MTL fans were just as insane thinking for years that Price was enough putting our selves in cap hell where we had to skate a 22/23 man roster.
    But that was back when we had Markov/Subban/Gorges to absorb minutes on the back end.
    We kept telling ourselves the front end line up he had was good enough filled with role players and a few good pieces.
    Reality is all we did was waste our Franchise players Prime years as he made it to 2 ECF and a SCF with no run support offensively..
    Its just a shame to see CAR doing that in reverse going all out Offense and wasting AHO Prime years.
    We always pretend in the moment they have years left and it will happen but the reality is not as long as they have a 1 dimensional GM

    Adding Burns helped but for how long
    Your GM makes moves like bringing in Hamilton and Edmundston then downgrades to Tony Dbag and Jake Gardiner right after.
    For every good move he makes he undoes it with a few bad ones like giving away Adam Fox to protect Jake Bean hahahaha


    Freddie isn't injury-prone. Raanta is but he's also not nearly going to see enough game time to matter during the regular season, and if he sees ice time in the playoffs at all, sh*t has hit the fan.

    Carolina is currently over by 1.8. Sending Chatfield + Pederson down, calluing drury up, it nets out to about 1.3. 1.3 is more than coverable by using a 21 man roster with the simple decuction of Martinook. That is 1.8. His AHL cap hit would be ~ 400k, but it would clear up enough to activate Pacioretty, move Necas down to the fourth line. Then, you can either return Drury to Chicago or waive Coghlan. It's not ideal, but the Canes have carried 21 man rosters before and a month between the deadline to the playoffs makes no difference.

    You then make the argument the Canes are wasting Aho's prime year. You realise Aho turned 25 a month ago? He's younger than guys like MacKinnon. You then make the mistake of saying Carolina are going **all out offense**. This could not be further from the truth. Aho's career high in points is 83. You think that's because of a high flying offensive system? Carolina's system is a more offensive-friendly version of the left-wing lock. Carolina embraces a defense first mindset, proven by Andersen and Raanta winning the William M Jennings trophy last year. This is nothing like what happened with Montreal. They're not comparable yet.

    Then you talk about moves Waddell has made without context. Jake Bean wasn't protected, he was dumped to Columbus after the expansion draft. Fox was traded to New York because he only wanted to sign for the Rangers. That's why Calgary threw him away in the first place. You mention Edmundson being a good move for the Canes, but he was WORSE in Carolina than Gardiner! You say DeAngelo wasn't a good move, but DeAngelo put up better numbers last year than Hamilton ever did. You're laughing at ideas. The truth is, everything in those last two sentences is wrong. DeAngelo turned out to be an upgrade on what Hamilton did. Gardiner wasn't "a downgrade". Hamilton, Edmundson and Gardiner played together in Carolina. Hell, Gardiner and Hamilton played together for 2 years. Stop it. You clearly do not know what you are talking about.
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    29 août 2022 à 23 h 54
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    Quoting: Billy316
    Fair Enough up until Pacioretty returns part.
    You're talking about taking your 22 man roster down to 20 or 21 to fit Pacioretty's cap even if he misses half the year.
    Its my understanding that if his Cap hit is reflected from the point he plays on if you're saying TDL for a return thats still 2.75-3.5m
    That also means Martinook wouldnt be enough .
    Your hope to solve that problem is your team has players get injured lol
    I mean that's fine as long as you factor in losing other injury prone players like both your Goalies.


    Then again MTL fans were just as insane thinking for years that Price was enough putting our selves in cap hell where we had to skate a 22/23 man roster.
    But that was back when we had Markov/Subban/Gorges to absorb minutes on the back end.
    We kept telling ourselves the front end line up he had was good enough filled with role players and a few good pieces.
    Reality is all we did was waste our Franchise players Prime years as he made it to 2 ECF and a SCF with no run support offensively..
    Its just a shame to see CAR doing that in reverse going all out Offense and wasting AHO Prime years.
    We always pretend in the moment they have years left and it will happen but the reality is not as long as they have a 1 dimensional GM

    Adding Burns helped but for how long
    Your GM makes moves like bringing in Hamilton and Edmundston then downgrades to Tony Dbag and Jake Gardiner right after.
    For every good move he makes he undoes it with a few bad ones like giving away Adam Fox to protect Jake Bean hahahaha


    If you’re going to try to troll at least get your revisionist history right and do a bit of research. Go look up the Fox and Bean situations and come back to me. Bottom feeding arrogance constantly from you.
    29 août 2022 à 23 h 56
    #24
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    Rejoint: mai 2017
    Messages: 6,694
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    Quoting: Caniac2000
    Freddie isn't injury-prone. Raanta is but he's also not nearly going to see enough game time to matter during the regular season, and if he sees ice time in the playoffs at all, sh*t has hit the fan.

    Carolina is currently over by 1.8. Sending Chatfield + Pederson down, calluing drury up, it nets out to about 1.3. 1.3 is more than coverable by using a 21 man roster with the simple decuction of Martinook. That is 1.8. His AHL cap hit would be ~ 400k, but it would clear up enough to activate Pacioretty, move Necas down to the fourth line. Then, you can either return Drury to Chicago or waive Coghlan. It's not ideal, but the Canes have carried 21 man rosters before and a month between the deadline to the playoffs makes no difference.

    You then make the argument the Canes are wasting Aho's prime year. You realise Aho turned 25 a month ago? He's younger than guys like MacKinnon. You then make the mistake of saying Carolina are going **all out offense**. This could not be further from the truth. Aho's career high in points is 83. You think that's because of a high flying offensive system? Carolina's system is a more offensive-friendly version of the left-wing lock. Carolina embraces a defense first mindset, proven by Andersen and Raanta winning the William M Jennings trophy last year. This is nothing like what happened with Montreal. They're not comparable yet.

    Then you talk about moves Waddell has made without context. Jake Bean wasn't protected, he was dumped to Columbus after the expansion draft. Fox was traded to New York because he only wanted to sign for the Rangers. That's why Calgary threw him away in the first place. You mention Edmundson being a good move for the Canes, but he was WORSE in Carolina than Gardiner! You say DeAngelo wasn't a good move, but DeAngelo put up better numbers last year than Hamilton ever did. You're laughing at ideas. The truth is, everything in those last two sentences is wrong. DeAngelo turned out to be an upgrade on what Hamilton did. Gardiner wasn't "a downgrade". Hamilton, Edmundson and Gardiner played together in Carolina. Hell, Gardiner and Hamilton played together for 2 years. Stop it. You clearly do not know what you are talking about.

    I wouldn’t even bother with this troll. He has a superiority complex because he’s a MTL fan, can’t put together a coherent argument and just rambled non sensible blabber constantly, and literally makes up history to prove his “points”. Dude is still crying about KK and is on a mission to just dump on canes fans for some reason.
     
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