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According to Friedman repost

Créé par: Blazingbat11
Équipe: 2022-23 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 25 août 2022
Publié: 25 août 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Not sure why the original post was deleted (it followed all the rules for ACGM.. as it's discussing trade return possibilities with EDM), so re-posting in case it was a mistake

but anyway...

On 32 thoughts, Friedman indicated at the 16:00 minute mark of the podcast, that EDM tried to sign Klingberg and would of used MTL as a "middle man" team to retain salary.

curious as to what the return would of been.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
12 500 000 $
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ANA
    Klingberg would of signed with EDM via MTL
    2.
    MTL
    1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (EDM)
    Détails additionnels:
    Maybe a player? Poolparty? Yamamoto?
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    1. Klingberg, John (3 500 000 $ retained)
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    TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
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    Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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    842 500 $842 500 $ (Bonis de performance507 500 $$508K)
    DG/DD
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    762 500 $762 500 $
    DD
    UFA - 2
    Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
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    1 100 000 $1 100 000 $
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    25 août 2022 à 14 h 2
    #1
    Banni
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    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 4
    #2
    Future Norris guy
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    We already said that this is illegal and it's cap circumvention, Teams can't sign a player at full value then flip them at 50% retention it's not aloud. The new CBA forbids this very thing. And Friedman should know about that. Every GM in the league would challenge this.
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    25 août 2022 à 14 h 5
    #3
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    Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?


    Montreal would've signed klingberg and then traded him to Edmonton with retention. Unlikely this happens now where Anaheim trades him to Edmonton and Montreal retains, but I could be wrong
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 5
    #4
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    Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?


    The explanation given in the podcast was that EDM wanted to sign Klingberg as a UFA. Given that salary cap, EDM would of had MTL sign Klingberg, then trade him to EDM with salary being retained.

    I'll share the link to the podcast. It's discussed around the 16 minute mark.
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 5
    #5
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    It was likely deleted because it is cap circumvention.
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 6
    #6
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    Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?


    Pretty sure he meant that Montreal would sign Klingberg for 1 x $7,000,000, Then flip him to Edmonton at 50% off which is illegal cap circumvention and the league would never allow it.
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    25 août 2022 à 14 h 6
    #7
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    Quoting: Mr_Gardoki
    I'm a bit confused here. How can you trade an unsigned FA? Do you think he meant he EDM would have traded someone else using MTL as a third team to retain salary in order to clear up space for Klingberg?


    The report was Montreal signs Klingberg for say 7 Mil then trades him to Edmonton half retained for whatever. IMO that is clear cut cap circumvention and would have been blocked by the league and also IF Montreal signed Klingberg after trading Petry they would have been further ahead to keep him and try to build out the roster for a playoff spot instead since at that moment they did not have any idea Price was going to miss the season.
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 6
    #8
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    We already said that this is illegal and it's cap circumvention, Teams can't sign a player at full value then flip them at 50% retention it's not aloud. The new CBA forbids this very thing. And Friedman should know about that. Every GM in the league would challenge this.


    where exactly does it says that in the new cba? i've looked into it and could not find anything about that. im not saying i dont believe you but i could not find it.
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 6
    #9
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    https://podcast.sportsnet.ca/32-thoughts/greetings-from-paris/
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 8
    #10
    Banni
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    Pretty sure he meant that Montreal would sign Klingberg for 1 x $7,000,000, Then flip him to Edmonton at 50% off which is illegal cap circumvention and the league would never allow it.


    Ah ok, yeah, can't do that.
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 9
    #11
    Mr.
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    A late 2nd won't be enough considering they have a limit of 3 spots and allen, Dadonov, drouin, Monahan, and byron as pending UFAs going into the deadline
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 9
    #12
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    Quoting: huey2107
    It was likely deleted because it is cap circumvention.


    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    We already said that this is illegal and it's cap circumvention, Teams can't sign a player at full value then flip them at 50% retention it's not aloud. The new CBA forbids this very thing. And Friedman should know about that. Every GM in the league would challenge this.



    I'm not seeing the rule where it says it. still looking.

    Still a general good discussion to have though. I don't see how it's any different then getting a 3rd team at the trade deadline to retain more salary, thus exceeding the 50% salary retention limit...
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 10
    #13
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    Quoting: drambui
    where exactly does it says that in the new cba? i've looked into it and could not find anything about that. im not saying i dont believe you but i could not find it.


    You're not aloud to sign a player at full value, Then flip them to another team at 50% off it's cap circumvention. And yes it's in the CBA. Pretty sure in 5 minutes you've not read the entire CBA that is over 100 pages in length.
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 11
    #14
    Mr.
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    Quoting: Campabee
    The report was Montreal signs Klingberg for say 7 Mil then trades him to Edmonton half retained for whatever. IMO that is clear cut cap circumvention and would have been blocked by the league and also IF Montreal signed Klingberg after trading Petry they would have been further ahead to keep him and try to build out the roster for a playoff spot instead since at that moment they did not have any idea Price was going to miss the season.


    What about arizona signes him then trades him for a 7th to montreal then montreal trade him 50% retaind ? Would that be allowed?
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 12
    #15
    Mr.
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    You're not aloud to sign a player at full value, Then flip them to another team at 50% off it's cap circumvention. And yes it's in the CBA. Pretty sure in 5 minutes you've not read the entire CBA that is over 100 pages in length.


    Can it be a 3 team trade ? One signes him then traded to MTL and retain and send him to the 3rd team
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 12
    #16
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    Holland: "Hey John, We really want to sign you but we cant afford to pay you what youre worth. So hear me out, you sign in MTL, then they trade you to us while paying half your salary so we dont need to.

    Klingberg: "Broke boi, I'm going to Cali"

    Probably
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    25 août 2022 à 14 h 12
    #17
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    You're not aloud to sign a player at full value, Then flip them to another team at 50% off it's cap circumvention. And yes it's in the CBA. Pretty sure in 5 minutes you've not read the entire CBA that is over 100 pages in length.


    im just saying i tried to find that info in the cba before and could not find it. i obviously havent looked at it in the last 5 min. im not challenging you, im just asking for help if you can give any. maybe there was some phrasing i did not understand, but i couldnt find any rules about signing players then trading them retained right away.
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    25 août 2022 à 14 h 14
    #18
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    Quoting: SMH
    What about arizona signes him then trades him for a 7th to montreal then montreal trade him 50% retaind ? Would that be allowed?


    No

    You can't trade a signed player to another team. And then that team retains 50% on that player. It's still cap circumvention and isn't aloud.
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 15
    #19
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    Quoting: SMH
    Can it be a 3 team trade ? One signes him then traded to MTL and retain and send him to the 3rd team


    Nope.

    It's still no different, It's still cap circumvention no matter how you slice it.
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 16
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    No

    You can't trade a signed player to another team. And then that team retains 50% on that player. It's still cap circumvention and isn't aloud.


    So after what amount of time can a player be traded after signing a contract?
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    25 août 2022 à 14 h 23
    #21
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    Quoting: HockeyIsMyPassion61
    No

    You can't trade a signed player to another team. And then that team retains 50% on that player. It's still cap circumvention and isn't aloud.


    So you can definitely trade signed players. FLA and CGY just did it so Tkachuk could get 8 years in FLA.






    So the sticking point here is the retention? right?
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    25 août 2022 à 14 h 23
    #22
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    who knows if its possible, as far as im concerned its doesnt say you cannot do it in the cba, i could not find any info on it last time i checked. i remember the first time salary was absorbed (the brassard trade i believe?) through a 3rd team, many people though the league would block the trade because the league never though about that scenario when they introduced retained salary, but they let it happen in the end.
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    25 août 2022 à 14 h 28
    #23
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    So without debating the validity if this is possible or not. Let's be hypothetical and say that it is.

    What would be a possible return MTL would of gotten from EDM?
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 29
    #24
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    Quoting: Blazingbat11
    So you can definitely trade signed players. FLA and CGY just did it so Tkachuk could get 8 years in FLA.





    You're still wrong it was a sign and trade between Calgary and Florida which is perfectly legal. What you're proposing between Montreal and Edmonton is illegal it's cap circumvention.
    Calgary signed Matthew Tkachuk for 8 x $9,500,000 and in return received Jonathan Huberdeau+MacKenzie Weegar+Prospects and a 1st and 2nd round pick. There's no retention here so it's all perfectly legal.
    So the sticking point here is the retention? right?
    25 août 2022 à 14 h 34
    #25
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    Quoting: SMH
    Can it be a 3 team trade ? One signes him then traded to MTL and retain and send him to the 3rd team


    Still cap circumvention, see section 26.3 for how detailed cap circumvention is in the CBA. Basically it states that any attempt to circumvent the cap as determined by the NHL is illegal and will result in severe penalties.

    https://www.nhlpa.com/the-pa/cba
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