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2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #11 - Will Lamoriello ever announce Kadri's signing?

18 août 2022 à 20 h 24
#676
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Also on Carey Price, man was an amazing goalie, really sucks his career was plagued by injuries, he was our heart and soul for years, sucks we couldn’t get him a cup in 2014 ( annual f*ck Chris Kreider ) or 2021, at least we got to see his brilliance in net ( including the 2016 World Cup ). I’d retire Price’s Jersey if I’m Montreal ( though our standard for retirement is pretty high most likely, with our history, we can’t exactly retire all good players, still need to have at least 23 numbers available lol ) and I’d argue Price is HOF material ( though no cup will hurt him )


Is Price HOF material though? After that insane 2014 season and the big contract thereafter, he was for sure above-average and consistent, but by no means spectacular (save for that Cinderella '21 run to the SCF). In my mind, he deserves to go down as an all-time legend, but not quite HOF worthy (kind of like Joe Pavelski).
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18 août 2022 à 20 h 29
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From ProHockeyRumors.com, good breakdown of the Monahan trade conditions (it's long, but simplified well):

There are three possible umbrella scenarios that could determine which draft pick Montreal actually receives:

Scenario 1: If Calgary’s 2024 first-round pick falls between 20th and 32nd overall, Montreal can elect to receive Calgary’s 2024 first instead of their 2025 first.
Scenario 2: Calgary receives the 2025 lottery-protected first-round pick sent to them by the Florida Panthers in the Jonathan Huberdeau trade.
Scenario 3: Calgary does NOT receive Florida’s 2025 lottery-protected first-round pick.

Scenario 1

This is easily the simplest and potentially most likely scenario if the Flames are still rolling strong two years from now. If Montreal opts to swap out an unknown 2025 first-rounder for a late 2024 first-rounder, then the trade tree ends and Montreal receives no additional compensation.

Scenario 2

Now, things get complex with the addition of Florida’s 2025 lottery-protected first-round pick. In the event that both the Flames’ and Panthers’ 2025 first-round picks are NOT in the top 10, the Canadiens will receive the better of the two selections.

However, if the Flames’ 2025 first-round pick is a top 10 pick and the Panthers’ pick is not, Montreal is guaranteed to receive the Panthers’ pick. If the opposite is true, Montreal will receive Calgary’s selection.

Scenario 3

This is the most unlikely yet most complex scenario. If Florida’s 2025 first-round pick ends up as a top-ten choice, they’ll retain the pick and send their 2026 first-rounder to Calgary instead. This has two possible implications for Montreal:

If Calgary’s 2025 first is NOT top 10: Montreal will receive Calgary’s 2025 first-round pick, and, if Florida’s 2025 first-round pick is not top ten, but was transferred to another team due to prior conditions AND is a better pick than Calgary’s, Montreal will also receive Calgary’s 2025 fourth-round pick as compensation.

If Calgary’s 2025 first is top 10: If Calgary’s 2025 first-round pick is first overall, Montreal will receive the better of Florida’s and Calgary’s 2026 first-round picks AND Calgary’s 2025 third-round pick. If Calgary’s 2025 first-round pick falls between selections 2 through 10, Montreal will receive the pick.
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18 août 2022 à 20 h 34
#678
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Is Price HOF material though? After that insane 2014 season and the big contract thereafter, he was for sure above-average and consistent, but by no means spectacular (save for that Cinderella '21 run to the SCF). In my mind, he deserves to go down as an all-time legend, but not quite HOF worthy (kind of like Joe Pavelski).


i dont think he stood out enough from his peers. only 1 vezina. interestingly enough he was only voted to the 1st all-star team once and never voted 2nd all-star team.
18 août 2022 à 20 h 35
#679
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
Is Price HOF material though? After that insane 2014 season and the big contract thereafter, he was for sure above-average and consistent, but by no means spectacular (save for that Cinderella '21 run to the SCF). In my mind, he deserves to go down as an all-time legend, but not quite HOF worthy (kind of like Joe Pavelski).


I mean, his career was cut down by injuries but he did win the Hart, Lindsay, Vezina and Jennings in the same year while also having won some Olympic Golds and Worlc Cup. Price has a career .917 which is pretty good, his 09-10 to 11-12 and then 13-14 to 16-17 ( even though he only played 12 games in 15-16 he had a .934 in those 12 games ) and even his 18-19 season were good, overall, even though he’s been injured, his 2010’s have been pretty spectacular
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18 août 2022 à 20 h 43
#680
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Why wouldn't it count? They acquired it by trading one of their roster players and could have kept it.

Because the whole trade was Romanov+a couple picks for Dach. That would be like saying Dubas traded away Robin Lehner because the Leafs owned him for one second to facilitate his trade to Vegas via retaining salary. Which I would argue has even more validity than claiming to own this first because they were actually paying him still lol, it wasn’t just in and out with no effects at all like that pick was.
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18 août 2022 à 20 h 43
#681
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
From ProHockeyRumors.com, good breakdown of the Monahan trade conditions (it's long, but simplified well):

There are three possible umbrella scenarios that could determine which draft pick Montreal actually receives:

Scenario 1: If Calgary’s 2024 first-round pick falls between 20th and 32nd overall, Montreal can elect to receive Calgary’s 2024 first instead of their 2025 first.
Scenario 2: Calgary receives the 2025 lottery-protected first-round pick sent to them by the Florida Panthers in the Jonathan Huberdeau trade.
Scenario 3: Calgary does NOT receive Florida’s 2025 lottery-protected first-round pick.

Scenario 1

This is easily the simplest and potentially most likely scenario if the Flames are still rolling strong two years from now. If Montreal opts to swap out an unknown 2025 first-rounder for a late 2024 first-rounder, then the trade tree ends and Montreal receives no additional compensation.

Scenario 2

Now, things get complex with the addition of Florida’s 2025 lottery-protected first-round pick. In the event that both the Flames’ and Panthers’ 2025 first-round picks are NOT in the top 10, the Canadiens will receive the better of the two selections.

However, if the Flames’ 2025 first-round pick is a top 10 pick and the Panthers’ pick is not, Montreal is guaranteed to receive the Panthers’ pick. If the opposite is true, Montreal will receive Calgary’s selection.

Scenario 3

This is the most unlikely yet most complex scenario. If Florida’s 2025 first-round pick ends up as a top-ten choice, they’ll retain the pick and send their 2026 first-rounder to Calgary instead. This has two possible implications for Montreal:

If Calgary’s 2025 first is NOT top 10: Montreal will receive Calgary’s 2025 first-round pick, and, if Florida’s 2025 first-round pick is not top ten, but was transferred to another team due to prior conditions AND is a better pick than Calgary’s, Montreal will also receive Calgary’s 2025 fourth-round pick as compensation.

If Calgary’s 2025 first is top 10: If Calgary’s 2025 first-round pick is first overall, Montreal will receive the better of Florida’s and Calgary’s 2026 first-round picks AND Calgary’s 2025 third-round pick. If Calgary’s 2025 first-round pick falls between selections 2 through 10, Montreal will receive the pick.


Ok so my analysis was correct.

This was my analysis just for those curious:

So from what I understand:

1. Montreal can chose Calgary’s 2024 1st if it’s between pick 20 and pick 32
2. If they decide to not take that pick it’s between the 2025 1st of Florida or Calgary
3. If both picks are out of the top 10, Montreal receives the highest one
4. If Calgary’s pick is top 10 and Florida’s isn’t, they receive Florida’s pick
5. If Florida’s pick is top 10 and Calgary’s isn’t, that pick goes back to Florida and Montreal gets Calgary’s pick
6. If Montreal is supposed to get Florida’s pick (because they’re both outside the top 10, and is higher than Calgary’s), and it gets traded, they receive Calgary’s 2025 pick plus a 2025 4th
7. If both are top 10, Florida’s pick goes back to Florida and Calgary keeps their pick, but:

A. If it’s 1st ov, they get the better 2026 1st between Florida and Calgary and Calgary’s 2025 3rd
B. If it’s 2-10th ov, they receives Calgary’s 2026 first
18 août 2022 à 20 h 52
#682
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Quoting: Alfie11
Because the whole trade was Romanov+a couple picks for Dach. That would be like saying Dubas traded away Robin Lehner because the Leafs owned him for one second to facilitate his trade to Vegas via retaining salary. Which I would argue has even more validity than claiming to own this first because they were actually paying him still lol, it wasn’t just in and out with no effects at all like that pick was.


Not really, The Lehner trade was a three-way, the Dach and Romanov trades were two different trades a couple minutes apart. They got a 1st round pick for Romanov, then they traded it for Dach.
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18 août 2022 à 20 h 54
#683
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Not really, The Lehner trade was a three-way, the Dach and Romanov trades were two different trades a couple minutes apart. They got a 1st round pick for Romanov, then they traded it for Dach.


In sum Dach's trade was an indirect 3-way trade

Lehner's was a direct 3-way trade
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18 août 2022 à 20 h 58
#684
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Quoting: aadoyle
In sum Dach's trade was an indirect 3-way trade

Lehner's was a direct 3-way trade


Indeed, but it wasn't possible for Toronto to keep Lehner, while it was possible for the Canadiens to simply keep the pick.
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18 août 2022 à 21 h 6
#685
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Indeed, but it wasn't possible for Toronto to keep Lehner, while it was possible for the Canadiens to simply keep the pick.


Pretty much. Toronto basically did what Florida did with Domi. They had some space so why not get into a trade with 2 other teams and get an asset. In our case Dmitri Ovchinnikov a certain someone fav prospect

And in general Lehner is such a weird goalie and I feel him and Toronto would be more of a disaster than Mrazek was
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18 août 2022 à 21 h 11
#686
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Sean Monahan speaks for the first time as a Hab:

“Not many people know this about me, but I actually came out of the womb with a Habs jersey on, so it’s safe to say this is a lifelong dream come true, not only to play for the best organization in professional sports but also the possibility of being linemates with elite sniper Mike Hoffman and elite playmaker Jonathan Drouin. I’d be shocked if we don’t win the Stanley cup every year I’m here.”
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18 août 2022 à 21 h 13
#687
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Quoting: AndrewLadd
Sean Monahan speaks for the first time as a Hab:

“Not many people know this about me, but I actually came out of the womb with a Habs jersey on, so it’s safe to say this is a lifelong dream come true, not only to play for the best organization in professional sports but also the possibility of being linemates with elite sniper Mike Hoffman and elite playmaker Jonathan Drouin. I’d be shocked if we don’t win the Stanley cup every year I’m here.”


habs are even moving drouin from center to wing to accommodate monahan.
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18 août 2022 à 21 h 14
#688
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Also on Carey Price, man was an amazing goalie, really sucks his career was plagued by injuries, he was our heart and soul for years, sucks we couldn’t get him a cup in 2014 ( annual f*ck Chris Kreider ) or 2021, at least we got to see his brilliance in net ( including the 2016 World Cup ). I’d retire Price’s Jersey if I’m Montreal ( though our standard for retirement is pretty high most likely, with our history, we can’t exactly retire all good players, still need to have at least 23 numbers available lol ) and I’d argue Price is HOF material ( though no cup will hurt him )


He was also such a classy guy.

https://twitter.com/brink_thinker/status/1414743979187490821?s=21&t=YZJ5rW5QtOeOVdvGCXxVtg

And one of the most clutch goalies of all time. I mean sometimes as a Leaf fan all you can do is laugh. They’ve had to face Tukka Rask, Carey Price, and Andrei Vasilevskiy all in the 1st fukcin round.
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18 août 2022 à 21 h 17
#689
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
I mean sometimes as a Leaf fan all you can do is laugh. They’ve had to face Tukka Rask, Carey Price, and Andrei Vasilevskiy all in the 1st fukcin round.


And if you're not a Leafs fan, you can laugh even harder (and a smidge more maniacally tears of joy)
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18 août 2022 à 21 h 19
#690
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Not sure why that didn’t post
18 août 2022 à 21 h 27
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
looks like it's expensive to move contracts right now. i'd hate to be a team above the cap.


same price was paid by the Leafs in 2019 with Marleau
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18 août 2022 à 21 h 29
#692
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Not really, The Lehner trade was a three-way, the Dach and Romanov trades were two different trades a couple minutes apart. They got a 1st round pick for Romanov, then they traded it for Dach.

Yeah but they wouldn’t have done the Romanov trade if they weren’t gonna turn around and get Dach. It was basically a 3-way trade, and pretending otherwise is being deliberately anal, because there was not a scenario where they would have kept the 1st. And the net 1st round picks acquired obviously excludes it, which goes back to your original post being intentionally misleading. Just say he got 3 1sts and praise him for that, although he’s really not faced any challenges yet (his biggest challenge was who to pick 1st overall lmao, every other team would kill for that problem). Don’t try to artificially inflate what he’s done, it’s annoying and you’re smart enough to know it’s wrong. Go clickbait on twitter if you must lol
18 août 2022 à 21 h 42
#693
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Quoting: Alfie11
Yeah but they wouldn’t have done the Romanov trade if they weren’t gonna turn around and get Dach. It was basically a 3-way trade, and pretending otherwise is being deliberately anal, because there was not a scenario where they would have kept the 1st. And the net 1st round picks acquired obviously excludes it, which goes back to your original post being intentionally misleading. Just say he got 3 1sts and praise him for that, although he’s really not faced any challenges yet (his biggest challenge was who to pick 1st overall lmao, every other team would kill for that problem). Don’t try to artificially inflate what he’s done, it’s annoying and you’re smart enough to know it’s wrong. Go clickbait on twitter if you must lol


All I read is you're mad that your team had to pay a hefty price to dump Monahan so you're trying to discredit another GM for what he's done. They wanted Dach - Chicago wanted a 1st rounder - Montréal traded one of their players for a 1st rounder. It's really not rocket science. They got the pick, then traded the pick in order to get the player they targeted in the first place who was worth a 1st in the eyes of general managers. Saying they didn't acquire a 1st rounder, that's deliberately anal. It's like saying the Flames didn't get a 1st in the Tkachuk trade because they used it to dump Monahan, the only difference being the time between the trades.
18 août 2022 à 21 h 50
#694
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
He was also such a classy guy.

https://twitter.com/brink_thinker/status/1414743979187490821?s=21&t=YZJ5rW5QtOeOVdvGCXxVtg

And one of the most clutch goalies of all time. I mean sometimes as a Leaf fan all you can do is laugh. They’ve had to face Tukka Rask, Carey Price, and Andrei Vasilevskiy all in the 1st fukcin round.


And a guy who decides before he utterly tanks into oblivion goes God mode on us (talking about Korpisalo)

Like after that year he fell off and basically became almost unplayable
18 août 2022 à 21 h 56
#695
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Friend sent this to me

Calling it

Isles Fans to Lou

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18 août 2022 à 22 h 2
#696
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
He was also such a classy guy.

https://twitter.com/brink_thinker/status/1414743979187490821?s=21&t=YZJ5rW5QtOeOVdvGCXxVtg

And one of the most clutch goalies of all time. I mean sometimes as a Leaf fan all you can do is laugh. They’ve had to face Tukka Rask, Carey Price, and Andrei Vasilevskiy all in the 1st fukcin round.


Price was definitely a clutch goalie, he found ways to keep us in game we never should’ve been in
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18 août 2022 à 22 h 14
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Quoting: SevenLeg
All I read is you're mad that your team had to pay a hefty price to dump Monahan so you're trying to discredit another GM for what he's done. They wanted Dach - Chicago wanted a 1st rounder - Montréal traded one of their players for a 1st rounder. It's really not rocket science. They got the pick, then traded the pick in order to get the player they targeted in the first place who was worth a 1st in the eyes of general managers. Saying they didn't acquire a 1st rounder, that's deliberately anal. It's like saying the Flames didn't get a 1st in the Tkachuk trade because they used it to dump Monahan, the only difference being the time between the trades.

On the Flames, I mean that’s literally what I’m acknowledging though lol. The Flames traded Tkachuk for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt, and the cap space to sign Kadri 🤷‍♂️ I’m finding it hard to really care about a pick that’ll be used on a guy who might be impactful in 2030 when trading it opens a 3-year cup window right now. This summer has also shown that’s the cost of doing business, but I’d rather make the trade and be significantly better than not make it and lack the centre depth to compete.

On the Habs, it’s stupid to say he’s brought in 4 1sts if he now has 3. You’re reaching so far to try and get a funny twitter meme that you’re ignoring the reality of the situation. Just say he’s got 3 1sts, Barron, and Dach, because that’s accurate and not trying to inflate the value. Also:



18 août 2022 à 22 h 24
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Quoting: Alfie11
On the Habs, it’s stupid to say he’s brought in 4 1sts if he now has 3. You’re reaching so far to try and get a funny twitter meme that you’re ignoring the reality of the situation. Just say he’s got 3 1sts, Barron, and Dach, because that’s accurate and not trying to inflate the value


You're literally saying he didn't get a 1st for Romanov because it traded it afterwards, and I'm the one ignoring the reality of the situation lol. Stick with your completely unrelated JFresh Twitter meme that was about center depth, not the ability or the inability to acquire 1st rounders.
18 août 2022 à 22 h 32
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Quoting: SevenLeg
You're literally saying he didn't get a 1st for Romanov because it traded it afterwards, and I'm the one ignoring the reality of the situation lol. Stick with your completely unrelated JFresh Twitter meme that was about center depth, not the ability or the inability to acquire 1st rounders.

He got Dach. He objectively didn’t get the 13th overall pick because he did not make that selection. And honestly, there’s a pretty solid argument that Nazar is the more valuable piece at this point too.

Let’s put a hypothetical here: Montreal trades PK Subban to Philadelphia for 5 first round picks. They then trade those 5 first round picks to Nashville for Weber, who trades them back to Philly for Subban to complete the swap. Are you really gonna pretend that means Bergevin acquired 5 first round picks? Or would you see that trade as Subban for Weber?

The trade was Romanov and a couple of mid-round picks for Dach. Splitting it into technically multiple transactions doesn’t change that.
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18 août 2022 à 22 h 40
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Quoting: Alfie11
He got Dach. He objectively didn’t get the 13th overall pick because he did not make that selection. And honestly, there’s a pretty solid argument that Nazar is the more valuable piece at this point too.

Let’s put a hypothetical here: Montreal trades PK Subban to Philadelphia for 5 first round picks. They then trade those 5 first round picks to Nashville for Weber, who trades them back to Philly for Subban to complete the swap. Are you really gonna pretend that means Bergevin acquired 5 first round picks? Or would you see that trade as Subban for Weber?

The trade was Romanov and a couple of mid-round picks for Dach. Splitting it into technically multiple transactions doesn’t change that.


I'd see it as Subban is traded for 5 1st round picks, then the 5 1st round picks are flipped for Weber... because it is what happens. Hypothetically, both Weber and Subban would be worth 5 1st round picks. N

Now if another random team retained on Weber and received MTL's 4th rounder in 2067 (like the Lehner trade you used as a comparable earlier), I'd consider it as a three-way trade. If not, it's two subsequent moves with an asset in common. There's a reason CapFriendly lists the Dach & Romanov trades in different threads unlike the Domi, Lehner trades.

Now since NYI and CHI had no mutual link in the Romanov-Dach thing, it's not a three-way. It's Romanov + stuff for a 1st, then 1st + stuff for Dach.
 
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