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Toronto speculation

Créé par: mytduxfan
Équipe: 2017-18 Ducks d'Anaheim
Date de création initiale: 19 mai 2017
Publié: 19 mai 2017
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
With recent reports of Babcock and Lou scouting the ANA-NSH series and the Ducks looking to trade a D-man for ED protection-exempt assets or a non-exempt forward, I propose the following as a fair trade that benefits both side.

Reasoning:

ANA: It gives ANA two expansion exempt pieces and injects youth into our aging line-up, all whilst reducing salary, which was higher this year than in previous years.

TOR: It gives TOR a solid top 3 D-man who will have an immediate impact on a team that is stacked up front.

Protection lists:

ANA:

F: Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler, Rakell, Silfverberg, Cogliano, Wagner.
D: Lindholm, Fowler, Manson.
G: Gibson.

TOR:

F: Kadri, JVR, Bozak, Komarov.
D: Reilly, Gardiner, Vatanen, Carrick.
G: Andersen.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
UFAANSCAP HIT
21 500 000 $
Transactions
1.
ANA
  1. Kapanen, Kasperi
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2018 (TOR)
2.
Rachats de contrats
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2017
Logo de ANA
Logo de SJS
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
2018
Logo de ANA
Logo de TOR
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
2019
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
Logo de ANA
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2173 000 000 $59 894 250 $0 $850 000 $13 105 750 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
2 463 139 $2 463 139 $
AD, AG
UFA - 5
8 250 000 $8 250 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 4
8 625 000 $8 625 000 $
AD
NMC
UFA - 4
3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 1
6 875 000 $6 875 000 $
C, AD
NMC
UFA - 5
3 750 000 $3 750 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
AG
UFA - 1
1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
C, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 1
670 000 $670 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
900 000 $900 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
863 333 $863 333 $
AD
UFA - 2
637 500 $637 500 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
2 602 778 $2 602 778 $
DG
UFA - 5
925 000 $925 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
2 300 000 $2 300 000 $
G
UFA - 2
4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
825 000 $825 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
863 333 $863 333 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
G
UFA - 2
3 250 000 $3 250 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
3 700 000 $3 700 000 $
DD
UFA - 4

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19 mai 2017 à 10 h 30
#1
#LeafsFever
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As fair as your deal is, and I am not saying it's not (it actually might be too fair), as a Leafs fan, I feel like they only have eyes for 1 of your D and that is Josh Manson. Even if it meant including a contract like Bieksa's in this deal, which would help ANA cap situation, I think the Leafs only deal with ANA if it included Manson.
19 mai 2017 à 10 h 31
#2
Canucks
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The Leafs were scouting the Nashville/Anaheim game. Vatanen is a player the Ducks would move for that price, no doubt.
19 mai 2017 à 10 h 32
#3
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TOR fans, it may seem a steep price, but please note:

1. Kapanen is only a prospect with some good AHL numbers. There is still quite a bit of risk involved in trading a proven talent away for a non-proven talent.
2. D-men are more expensive and RD are even more expensive.

Maybe the 1st is too much, but this draft is weaker than most and BM will be looking to recoup the 1st we've lost in the Eaves trade. If you don't want Vatanen or don't see a fit, than there is no deal.

ANA fans - I have no idea what will happen with Despres. If he gets healthy, we have the cap space for him. Also, I said LV would take Shaw over Vermette because of his age, but I could be wrong.
OldRedFox a aimé ceci.
19 mai 2017 à 10 h 35
#4
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Decent idea but for a team that has had a horrifying history of trading their first round pick over a year in advance (Luongo, Seguin, Hamilton, Niedermayer were all picked with first round picks the Leafs traded a year in advance) I don't think Toronto would use that pick.
19 mai 2017 à 10 h 39
#5
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Quoting: MG1986
As fair as your deal is, and I am not saying it's not (it actually might be too fair), as a Leafs fan, I feel like they only have eyes for 1 of your D and that is Josh Manson. Even if it meant including a contract like Bieksa's in this deal, which would help ANA cap situation, I think the Leafs only deal with ANA if it included Manson.


I get that. Personally, I think Manson is over-hyped because of Corsi. He's ok alongside the right partner, but he is definitely a complimentary #4. Vatanen is the better player, but they obviously have different skillsets. Regardless, I don't see Manson moving. He's too cheap and we have Montour to step in and replace Vatanen next season. Meanwhile, we have no one who can replace the hitting, grit, and fighting ability that Manson brings.

Quoting: TomG
The Leafs were scouting the Nashville/Anaheim game. Vatanen is a player the Ducks would move for that price, no doubt.


I think the price is reasonable. If Kapanen didn't have such great AHL numbers, I'd ask for more. Those numbers reduce his risk, but he's still a prospect. Personally, I'd like a more proven forward i.e. Miller, Kreider, Palat, etc., but I think this deal makes more sense based on what I understand about the Ducks financial situation and the teams desire to remain competitive year-on-year.
19 mai 2017 à 10 h 52
#6
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Quoting: mytduxfan


I get that. Personally, I think Manson is over-hyped because of Corsi. He's ok alongside the right partner, but he is definitely a complimentary #4. Vatanen is the better player, but they obviously have different skillsets. Regardless, I don't see Manson moving. He's too cheap and we have Montour to step in and replace Vatanen next season. Meanwhile, we have no one who can replace the hitting, grit, and fighting ability that Manson brings.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

@mytduxfan, It's somewhat funny you mention that, Manson's skill set, because that is exactly what the Leas, and probably half the NHL needs. I know Vatanen is a good player, but based on how the Leafs performed this season (they are in desperate need of defenders who can actually defend) and their long-term outlook (or rather prospective cap issues they will have with upcoming RFAs in UFAs in the next few seasons), I'd think the Leafs would need, not want, but need, someone like Manson, who can grow alongside their current core. I will say the future for the Ducks D-core looks quite bright: Shea Thedore, Brandon Mountor, Jacob Larsson, Josh Mahura, etc.
19 mai 2017 à 10 h 57
#7
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I think the price is reasonable. If Kapanen didn't have such great AHL numbers, I'd ask for more. Those numbers reduce his risk, but he's still a prospect. Personally, I'd like a more proven forward i.e. Miller, Kreider, Palat, etc., but I think this deal makes more sense based on what I understand about the Ducks financial situation and the teams desire to remain competitive year-on-year.[/quote]
The price is definitely reasonable but it's Lou so if the deal happened that it would probably include a 2nd or two not a first since they say the leafs are still building
19 mai 2017 à 11 h 10
#8
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A second rd better and where do we sign?....
Only thing is that I think Bieksa has to be protected unless he waives his NMC and why would he...so you do the trade and then you can lose another top D to Vegas unless you bribe them to select another and that would cost picks
19 mai 2017 à 11 h 41
#9
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Any of the D men that are moved this summer (Anaheim D, Nashville D, Vancouver D etc) will at minimum require a first and a good prospect coming back. Shattenkirk got a 1st and a 2nd as a rental at the TD, so youth and term only add to the value. The shortage of quality young D available vs demand also makes this inevitable. Buffalo, Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, Boston, Carolina, Edmonton, Arizona and Toronto are all looking to upgrade their D corps to varying degrees, but it will cost them.
19 mai 2017 à 11 h 43
#10
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Quoting: allendeunico
A second rd better and where do we sign?....
Only thing is that I think Bieksa has to be protected unless he waives his NMC and why would he...so you do the trade and then you can lose another top D to Vegas unless you bribe them to select another and that would cost picks


I will wager Bieksa waives his NMC. No risk at all that he gets taken in the ED.
19 mai 2017 à 12 h 5
#11
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The leafs could miss the playoffs next year making that 1st rounder a non starter.
This is way too rich considering Vats is not a good fit and I highly rate Kap. Leafs only target Vats if he is being sold at discount
19 mai 2017 à 12 h 22
#12
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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On your protection list....delete Komarov, Brown has to protected. And the trade, it might be fair, but the rebuilding Leafs are probably looking at Kapanen at the replacement for JVR next season. Yes, Leafs fans the Leafs won't be able to afford JVR. I still say the Leafs can keep their young players and with their cap space fill with UFAs (maybe even short term guys) on defence.

And lets think people: Bieska. Of course he waives his NMC. He isn't going to claimed by Vegas. And he doesn't want to bought out. He wants to play for the Ducks in his last NHL season.
19 mai 2017 à 12 h 48
#13
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Quoting: MG1986
Quoting: mytduxfan
It's somewhat funny you mention that, Manson's skill set, because that is exactly what the Leas, and probably half the NHL needs. I know Vatanen is a good player, but based on how the Leafs performed this season (they are in desperate need of defenders who can actually defend) and their long-term outlook (or rather prospective cap issues they will have with upcoming RFAs in UFAs in the next few seasons), I'd think the Leafs would need, not want, but need, someone like Manson, who can grow alongside their current core. I will say the future for the Ducks D-core looks quite bright: Shea Thedore, Brandon Mountor, Jacob Larsson, Josh Mahura, etc.


I think you're underrating Vatanen defensively. Vatanen can defend. He gets overpowered by bigger players sometimes, but he's solid. IMO (means nothing as I'm not a Leafs), based on the skillset of the forward group you have and the East in general, I suspect that LL and MB are looking to build a more mobile D core akin that of PIT. The days of build, bulking pylons that can't skate, but hit and fight are long gone. Consequently, Manson is unique in that he does all that to a reasonable level. With that said, I don't see how ANA can afford to move such a rarity in the league, especially when you consider his contract for the next 2 seasons.

If Manson is what the Leafs need, I don't see a deal happening. Plenty of teams need a player like Vatanen and I'm confident he's the preferred option to be moved. Maybe LL and MB are just checking Vatanen out. However, they don't necessarily have to pull the trigger if he doesn't fit TORs needs.

Quoting: Leafsfan07
The price is definitely reasonable but it's Lou so if the deal happened that it would probably include a 2nd or two not a first since they say the leafs are still building


I understand your point, but, at 17th OA in a weak draft, any D-man you pick up will be complete crapshoot. Even if you're lucky and get a good one, he'll be ages away from being a legit NHL player and will probably end up being about as good as Vatanen (with a different skillset). Meanwhile, you have Matthew, Marner and Nylander tearing it up and getting you guys into the playoffs. My opinion doesn't carry much weight, but I suspect that LL and MB are looking for some more immediate help. Whether they're willing to move 17th OA to get that immediate help is another question. However, I don't see BM trading Vatanen for Kaps + 2nd. It's a weak return given how many teams will be looking for a D of Vatanen's calibre.

Quoting: allendeunico
A second rd better and where do we sign?....
Only thing is that I think Bieksa has to be protected unless he waives his NMC and why would he...so you do the trade and then you can lose another top D to Vegas unless you bribe them to select another and that would cost picks


Bieksa will waive or BM will buy him out. The buyout is an inconvenience as he'll have to trade for a D-man we can expose, but it's not big enough of an inconvenience to warrant not buying him out and losing both Manson and Vatanen. The Ducks have already explored the option of reneging on Bieksa's NMC at the beginning of last season. Given that was unsuccessful, buying him out isn't too much of a leap.

Quoting: TomG
Any of the D men that are moved this summer (Anaheim D, Nashville D, Vancouver D etc) will at minimum require a first and a good prospect coming back. Shattenkirk got a 1st and a 2nd as a rental at the TD, so youth and term only add to the value. The shortage of quality young D available vs demand also makes this inevitable. Buffalo, Colorado, Dallas, Detroit, Boston, Carolina, Edmonton, Arizona and Toronto are all looking to upgrade their D corps to varying degrees, but it will cost them.


Agreed. I think Shatty is better than Vatanen, but Vats is locked in at a great price for a lot more years. He's worth the better prospect in Kapanen and the 1st IMO. Lots of teams will be interested, but this deal makes a lot of sense IMO.
19 mai 2017 à 13 h 40
#14
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I'm going to be blunt and I apologize if this has already been said but I would be extremely disappointed if that deal was made. Kapanen has been a PP/G player in AHL and if you look at under 20 yr olds that do that, the list is VERY impressive.

If we traded for Vatanen he would maybe be our 3rd best defenseman and considering we already have 3 offensive defenseman he doesn't fit well.

I would rather:
-Overpay for Shattenkirk than deal away those assets
-target a cheaper defenseman
-go back with the exact same D core

Kapanen has been an absolute stud and there's no doubt he's going to be a top six winger one day, and I would bet that it happens sooner rather than later
28 févr. 2018 à 15 h 35
#15
I am Score
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Vatanen isn't property of the Ducks anymore frown
 
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