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Legit and magic

Créé par: funnybrothers2
Équipe: 2022-23 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 1 août 2022
Publié: 1 août 2022
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1 août 2022 à 22 h 14
#1
Ex Nucks fan
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It’s gonna cost you a fortune to dump Gallaghers awful awful contract. Canucks decline very easily. We aren’t going to handicap ourself for the next 5 years
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1 août 2022 à 22 h 15
#2
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Gallagher would be a 4th liner on the Canucks and Myers while overpaid is still useful in our top 4. Canucks decline
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1 août 2022 à 22 h 17
#3
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Vancouver says no way. Gallagher's contract is worse than Myers and Dickinson combined.
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1 août 2022 à 22 h 31
#4
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You'd need to add Montreal's unprotected 1st in 23 to dump Hoffman, change Harris and Mysak to Barron and Dvorak to Dach along with Florida's 1st.
1 août 2022 à 23 h 22
#5
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Quoting: Windjammer
You'd need to add Montreal's unprotected 1st in 23 to dump Hoffman, change Harris and Mysak to Barron and Dvorak to Dach along with Florida's 1st.


Oh come on! Lol.

Dubois is a great two way centre who tops out at 70 points. And you want what again???

Just because the guy is French Canadian doesn't mean Hughes is selling the farm for him.

If Chevy got that package (and I will point out the Jets have little use for Harris given the depth they have on the blueline), he takes it and runs.

Dvorak plays 2C while Perfetti cuts his chops, Hoffman is a viable depth scorer, Harris could be flipped for a good young forward (see Arizona, Anahiem, Canucks to list 3) Mysak is a good enough project and a 1st is an over pay imo.

No way what you want is going to be the get.
1 août 2022 à 23 h 48
#6
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Modifié 2 août 2022 à 0 h 2
Quoting: swinny
Oh come on! Lol.

Dubois is a great two way centre who tops out at 70 points. And you want what again???

Just because the guy is French Canadian doesn't mean Hughes is selling the farm for him.

If Chevy got that package (and I will point out the Jets have little use for Harris given the depth they have on the blueline), he takes it and runs.

Dvorak plays 2C while Perfetti cuts his chops, Hoffman is a viable depth scorer, Harris could be flipped for a good young forward (see Arizona, Anahiem, Canucks to list 3) Mysak is a good enough project and a 1st is an over pay imo.

No way what you want is going to be the get.


Lol. What???? You think Hoffman has positive value. That's hilarious, Hoffman is a straight up 2 year cap dump. It costs a minimum of a 1st and probably more to dump 2 years of Hoffman.

If Chevy got this offer now (and I will point out that Harris and Mysak have no value to the Jets) he has a chuckle and hangs up.

If a poor offer like this, including an uncompensated cap dump was all it took to get Dubois, he would have been traded already. As the above is an instant yes from Hughes.

How often do teams trade a player they have no reason to trade for 3 pieces that have no value to them?

So, the Jets would never accept less for Dubois now than he gets at the TDL in two years.

No way you're going to get what would be the best player on Montreal for a lowball offer.
2 août 2022 à 0 h 14
#7
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Quoting: Windjammer
Lol. What???? You think Hoffman has positive value. That's hilarious, Hoffman is a straight up 2 year cap dump. It costs a minimum of a 1st and probably more to dump 2 years of Hoffman.

If Chevy got this offer now (and I will point out that Harris and Mysak have no value to the Jets) he has a chuckle and hangs up.

If a poor offer like this, including an uncompensated cap dump was all it took to get Dubois, he would have been traded already. As the above is an instant yes from Hughes.

How often do teams trade a player they have no reason to trade for 3 pieces that have no value to them?

So, the Jets would never accept less for Dubois now than he gets at the TDL in two years.

No way you're going to get what would be the best player on Montreal for a lowball offer.


How would Harris and Mysak have no value for the Jets? They're B prospects. Thinking they're worth nothing is bad asset management.

Most team would have to send cap back on a Dubois trade. Hoffman is not that bad of a cap dump. He could be flipped at next year TDL.

I get that Harris is a LHD and Jets don't need that, but it's all about value. MTL got Heineman and Smilanec for Chiarot and Toffoli. Don't need them. Just added value on a prospect pool.

If Dubois wants out of Winnipeg, he'll do the same thing he did in Columbus. If he play that bad, he'll be worth nothing at next year TDL.

Dubois isn't better than Caufield, Suzuki and probably Slafkovsky.
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2 août 2022 à 0 h 23
#8
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Quoting: LIRIK
How would Harris and Mysak have no value for the Jets? They're B prospects. Thinking they're worth nothing is bad asset management.

Most team would have to send cap back on a Dubois trade. Hoffman is not that bad of a cap dump. He could be flipped at next year TDL.

I get that Harris is a LHD and Jets don't need that, but it's all about value. MTL got Heineman and Smilanec for Chiarot and Toffoli. Don't need them. Just added value on a prospect pool.

If Dubois wants out of Winnipeg, he'll do the same thing he did in Columbus. If he play that bad, he'll be worth nothing at next year TDL.

Dubois isn't better than Caufield, Suzuki and probably Slafkovsky.


Yes, Dubois is easily better than all those players.

The have no value to Winnipeg, because the Jets don't need them. It's not all about value to Winnipeg. The Jets want players that fill a need.

Hoffman is a straight up cap dump.

Dubois hasn't said he wants out of Winnipeg and has a contract.

Dubois playing badly is silly. He's playing for his next contract. Playing badly hurts him more than anyone else, so he obviously won't do that.
2 août 2022 à 9 h 10
#9
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Quoting: Windjammer


Dubois playing badly is silly. He's playing for his next contract. Playing badly hurts him more than anyone else, so he obviously won't do that.


I agree, he has his reputation to clean up and he has all the reasons in the world to play the best hockey he can.
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2 août 2022 à 9 h 43
#10
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Quoting: Windjammer
Yes, Dubois is easily better than all those players.

The have no value to Winnipeg, because the Jets don't need them. It's not all about value to Winnipeg. The Jets want players that fill a need.

Hoffman is a straight up cap dump.

Dubois hasn't said he wants out of Winnipeg and has a contract.

Dubois playing badly is silly. He's playing for his next contract. Playing badly hurts him more than anyone else, so he obviously won't do that.


Explain how you see Dubois being better than Suzuki, Caufueld or Slafkovsky?

I vehemently disagree with this.
2 août 2022 à 9 h 59
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Modifié 2 août 2022 à 10 h 13
Quoting: swinny
Explain how you see Dubois being better than Suzuki, Caufueld or Slafkovsky?

I vehemently disagree with this.


It would actually be better if you provided an argument for how they are better than Dubois. I'd really like to hear how a tiny, complimentary, offense only winger and another winger that hasn't played a game in the NHL is better than an established top 6 (1B) center. It sounds like your take is fairly biased.

For me: Suzuki and Dubois are close, but Dubois is bigger, more physical and makes the players around him better. All things Suzuki doesn't have/can't do.

Caufield had an okay half a season, but is useless at everything except scoring and is a complimentary winger. Offense is great and all, so that is good, but Caufield hasn't been good long enough and is a winger. He's light years behind Dubois.

Slafkovsky, is just silly. He hasn't played a game yet and again is only a winger. Habs fans guaranteed everyone that the lowest goal total Caufield would ever see was 50 goals... and look how that went. Maybe let Slaf play a few games first before making crazy proclamations.
2 août 2022 à 10 h 10
#12
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Quoting: swinny
Explain how you see Dubois being better than Suzuki, Caufueld or Slafkovsky?

I vehemently disagree with this.


There just so different.
Maybe Slaf will be similar to PLD, but the guy has zero games played in the league. Hard to compare right now.
2 août 2022 à 10 h 22
#13
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Quoting: Windjammer
It would actually be better if you provided an argument for how they are better than Dubois. I'd really like to hear how a tiny, complimentary, offense only winger and another winger that hasn't played a game in the NHL is better than an established top 6 (1B) center.

For me: Suzuki and Dubois are close, but Dubois is bigger, more physical and makes the players around him better. All things Suzuki doesn't have/can't do.

Caufield had an okay half a season, but is useless at everything except scoring and is a complimentary winger. Offense is great and all, so that is good, but Caufield hasn't been good long enough and is a winger. He's light years behind Dubois.

Slafkovsky, is just silly. He hasn't played a game yet and again is only a winger. Habs fans guaranteed everyone that the lowest goal total Caufield would ever see was 50 goals... and look how that went. Maybe let Slaf play a few games first before making crazy proclamations.


Suzuki is simply a better lol. He is a PPG player now, and can play 200 feet. A leader in the locker room (like letter material). Over the last few years, his game continues to get better. Dubois is what he is at this point - a 60 point fantastic 2C. He is not nor will he be 1C. Suzuki flat out is.

Caufield maybe a one trick pony, but, he is that with all sorts of potential - and teams are generally reluctant to move bluechip prospects. Caufield at this stage of his career I would argue would be just like Patrick Laine at this stage of his career. The potential to be a 50 goal scorer is/was evident. I highly doubt Chevy would have moved a 21 year old Laine for Dubois. When Laine was moved for Dubois, Laine was established as a 35 goal scorer, and a dangerous threat. There was a ceiling that was reached. With Caufield, that ceiling has not been. Dealing with a valuation of small sample sizes can be difficult, but Caufield at this point looks every part of Laine. Better than Dubois no, well, not yet, but could be. At the very least, we are talking in terms of equal value when all is said and done.

Slafs is a first overall pick. Dude is huge, can skate, and actually knows how to use his size. If I am a Habs fan, I see a John LeClair that can hit. Habs haven't had a player quite like him in a generation.

The ceiling with Slafs is actually higher than Caufield imo.

Yes, we are dealing with hypotheticals when it comes to prospects, but name a team that would moved a 6'4" 230lb first overall pick, plus more, for Dubois?

Blunt answer - it won't happen.

I am not saying Dubois doesn't have value. He certainly does. But, Dubois simply isn't worth what you think he is.

If the Habs were to make an offer, I will maintain, something like Dvorak, Ylönen and a pick would be a framework that functions.

Hughes is hanging up the phone if you bring up Suzuki, Caufueld or Slafs. Be like moving Perfetti for Anderson. And I doubt Jets fans would like that too much.
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2 août 2022 à 10 h 24
#14
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Quoting: Nake_qc
There just so different.
Maybe Slaf will be similar to PLD, but the guy has zero games played in the league. Hard to compare right now.


Agreed, but as I just said, 6'4", 230lbs, and uses his size. The ceiling is mighty high.

Would be sooooo reluctant to make that move in a rebuild/retool era. If the Habs were actually contenders, maybe......
2 août 2022 à 10 h 35
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Quoting: swinny
Agreed, but as I just said, 6'4", 230lbs, and uses his size. The ceiling is mighty high.

Would be sooooo reluctant to make that move in a rebuild/retool era. If the Habs were actually contenders, maybe......


Oh and just so we are clear.
I would also not pay Windjammer's price.
But It was a good counter offer from him.
Habs low ball the offer, Wpg ask for way more... They meet in the middle type of deal.
2 août 2022 à 10 h 37
#16
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Quoting: swinny
Suzuki is simply a better lol. He is a PPG player now, and can play 200 feet. A leader in the locker room (like letter material). Over the last few years, his game continues to get better. Dubois is what he is at this point - a 60 point fantastic 2C. He is not nor will he be 1C. Suzuki flat out is.

Caufield maybe a one trick pony, but, he is that with all sorts of potential - and teams are generally reluctant to move bluechip prospects. Caufield at this stage of his career I would argue would be just like Patrick Laine at this stage of his career. The potential to be a 50 goal scorer is/was evident. I highly doubt Chevy would have moved a 21 year old Laine for Dubois. When Laine was moved for Dubois, Laine was established as a 35 goal scorer, and a dangerous threat. There was a ceiling that was reached. With Caufield, that ceiling has not been. Dealing with a valuation of small sample sizes can be difficult, but Caufield at this point looks every part of Laine. Better than Dubois no, well, not yet, but could be. At the very least, we are talking in terms of equal value when all is said and done.

Slafs is a first overall pick. Dude is huge, can skate, and actually knows how to use his size. If I am a Habs fan, I see a John LeClair that can hit. Habs haven't had a player quite like him in a generation.

The ceiling with Slafs is actually higher than Caufield imo.

Yes, we are dealing with hypotheticals when it comes to prospects, but name a team that would moved a 6'4" 230lb first overall pick, plus more, for Dubois?

Blunt answer - it won't happen.

I am not saying Dubois doesn't have value. He certainly does. But, Dubois simply isn't worth what you think he is.

If the Habs were to make an offer, I will maintain, something like Dvorak, Ylönen and a pick would be a framework that functions.

Hughes is hanging up the phone if you bring up Suzuki, Caufueld or Slafs. Be like moving Perfetti for Anderson. And I doubt Jets fans would like that too much.


He calls Caufield a complementary offense only winger, meanwhile he probably thinks Connor is a good all-around winger because he's a Jet lol. Rookies take time to shore up their game. That "Suzuki can't make players around him better" is also hilarious - Caufield had one goal when he was in the bottom six, then had 22 goals in 37 games with Suzuki. If that's not making players around him better...but it's not even the funniest thing. "Habs fans guaranteed everyone that the lowest goal total Caufield would ever see was 50 goals... and look how that went." For months he kept saying how Dubois was untouchable, was going to sign long term in WPG and the 1st overall pick wasn't even close for Dubois, guess not everyone can't be right! (I don't recall anyone saying that, except maybe a couple saying he has 50 goals potential
2 août 2022 à 10 h 37
#17
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Quoting: Nake_qc
Oh and just so we are clear.
I would also not pay Windjammer's price.
But It was a good counter offer from him.
Habs low ball the offer, Wpg ask for way more... They meet in the middle type of deal.


Likely yes. Safe to say there are few players in Montréal that are 100% off the table

Suzuki, Caufueld, Slafs, Dach, Barron, Harris..... rest could be in play.
2 août 2022 à 10 h 40
#18
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Quoting: SevenLeg
He calls Caufield a complementary offense only winger, meanwhile he probably thinks Connor is a good all-around winger because he's a Jet lol. Rookies take time to shore up their game. That "Suzuki can't make players around him better" is also hilarious - Caufield had one goal when he was in the bottom six, then had 22 goals in 37 games with Suzuki. If that's not making players around him better...but it's not even the funniest thing. "Habs fans guaranteed everyone that the lowest goal total Caufield would ever see was 50 goals... and look how that went." For months he kept saying how Dubois was untouchable, was going to sign long term in WPG and the 1st overall pick wasn't even close for Dubois, guess not everyone can't be right! (I don't recall anyone saying that, except maybe a couple saying he has 50 goals potential


100%!!!!!

What does it say when I am pointing out why the Habs would never in a million years move Suzuki, Caufueld or Slafs for Dubois when I am a Leafs fan?

Habs have a beautiful, sexy young core there. You just don't mess with it.
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2 août 2022 à 10 h 42
#19
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Quoting: swinny
100%!!!!!

What does it say when I am pointing out why the Habs would never in a million years move Suzuki, Caufueld or Slafs for Dubois when I am a Leafs fan?

Habs have a beautiful, sexy young core there. You just don't mess with it.


I understand why the Jets would say no for maybe Slaf straight up, but given their situation they're not gonna get a piece remotely close to Caufield & Suzuki, and not a team is gonna offer their #1OA prospect anyways
2 août 2022 à 10 h 44
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Quoting: swinny
100%!!!!!

What does it say when I am pointing out why the Habs would never in a million years move Suzuki, Caufueld or Slafs for Dubois when I am a Leafs fan?

Habs have a beautiful, sexy young core there. You just don't mess with it.


Someone else called my teams core "young and sexy"
Heck yeah!
(and a leafs fan at that!)
2 août 2022 à 10 h 46
#21
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Quoting: swinny
Likely yes. Safe to say there are few players in Montréal that are 100% off the table

Suzuki, Caufueld, Slafs, Dach, Barron, Harris..... rest could be in play.


I mean.... My list would differ a little.
We know exactly what we paid for Dach, if someone gives us more that that, we should accept.
2 août 2022 à 10 h 48
#22
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Quoting: SevenLeg
I understand why the Jets would say no for maybe Slaf straight up, but given their situation they're not gonna get a piece remotely close to Caufield & Suzuki, and not a team is gonna offer their #1OA prospect anyways


Dubois simply isn't worth that imo.

He is 100% one of the top 2C's playing, but no GM is going to move the farm to grab that, unless there is a legit Cup window involved.

As a Leafs fan, I might entertain a Nylander for Dubois swap, but I would be thinking long and hard. Sort of deal that is addition by subtraction. Those come with risk.

So, if I entertain that, I would also entertain Nylander for Suzuki lol. And we both know what Hughes' response is.....

Dubas: "I want Suzuki. I will give you Nylander"

Hughes: "And theeeeennn ?"

🤣🤣🤣
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2 août 2022 à 10 h 49
#23
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Quoting: Nake_qc
Someone else called my teams core "young and sexy"
Heck yeah!
(and a leafs fan at that!)


Call 'em as I see them!

Not about to say the Habs offseason didn't have me scratching my head (Romanov deal), but Hughes has a legit core 4 up front.
2 août 2022 à 10 h 49
#24
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Quoting: swinny
Suzuki is simply a better lol. He is a PPG player now, and can play 200 feet. A leader in the locker room (like letter material). Over the last few years, his game continues to get better. Dubois is what he is at this point - a 60 point fantastic 2C. He is not nor will he be 1C. Suzuki flat out is.

Caufield maybe a one trick pony, but, he is that with all sorts of potential - and teams are generally reluctant to move bluechip prospects. Caufield at this stage of his career I would argue would be just like Patrick Laine at this stage of his career. The potential to be a 50 goal scorer is/was evident. I highly doubt Chevy would have moved a 21 year old Laine for Dubois. When Laine was moved for Dubois, Laine was established as a 35 goal scorer, and a dangerous threat. There was a ceiling that was reached. With Caufield, that ceiling has not been. Dealing with a valuation of small sample sizes can be difficult, but Caufield at this point looks every part of Laine. Better than Dubois no, well, not yet, but could be. At the very least, we are talking in terms of equal value when all is said and done.

Slafs is a first overall pick. Dude is huge, can skate, and actually knows how to use his size. If I am a Habs fan, I see a John LeClair that can hit. Habs haven't had a player quite like him in a generation.

The ceiling with Slafs is actually higher than Caufield imo.

Yes, we are dealing with hypotheticals when it comes to prospects, but name a team that would moved a 6'4" 230lb first overall pick, plus more, for Dubois?

Blunt answer - it won't happen.

I am not saying Dubois doesn't have value. He certainly does. But, Dubois simply isn't worth what you think he is.

If the Habs were to make an offer, I will maintain, something like Dvorak, Ylönen and a pick would be a framework that functions.

Hughes is hanging up the phone if you bring up Suzuki, Caufueld or Slafs. Be like moving Perfetti for Anderson. And I doubt Jets fans would like that too much.


What on earth are you going on about? First you shift the goal posts on the discussion. It was about which player is better now, but you don't have a rebuttal for that so you change it to which player has more potential?

No one has mentioned any of those players in a deal so that part of your post makes no sense. Montreal is asking for Dubois, the Jets aren't offering him.

However, it could just as easily be said that the Jets hang up if the offer is the turd pile offered here.
2 août 2022 à 10 h 54
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Quoting: Windjammer
What on earth are you going on about? First you shift the goal posts on the discussion. It was about which player is better now, but you don't have a rebuttal for that so you change it to which player has more potential?

No one has mentioned any of those players in a deal so that part of your post makes no sense. Montreal is asking for Dubois, the Jets aren't offering him.

However, it could just as easily be said that the Jets hang up if the offer is the turd pile offered here.


You are the one that brought up Suzuki, Caufield and Slafs.

Not shifting the conversation at all. In what world does potential not matter in a deal when dealing with prospects? How teams in the 21st century NHL are built, or are you busy living in the 1990s?

Everyone here is telling you in certain terms your valuation of Dubois is off base, so now we are getting a brand of revisionist history.

As a Jets GM you can move me Perfetti for Kerfoot because Kerfoot is the better player right now.

The Leafs fan just dropped his mic.
 
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