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I do not understand Sabres fans

Créé par: jonh514
Équipe: 2022-23 Sabres de Buffalo
Date de création initiale: 28 juill. 2022
Publié: 28 juill. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I really don't understand Sabres fans. They have almost no Elite assets other than their 2 LD but refuse to trade one of Power or Dahlin to balance their team.

How many years do you want to spend rebuilding?! Tage seems to have figured out how to use his body and skill effectively. Skinner isn't getting any younger. Mittelstadt and Krebs are not gonna develop into Elite centers... You can't build a team around a core of LD only... The smart play is to trade Power for an Elite Center, Winger, or Goalie and try to get some other pieces at the same time.
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28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 21
#26
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Quoting: sabresparaavida
Yeah, I envision the future of this team (if things go well), to be somewhere between the blues cup team, and the Nashville cup finalist team a handful of years back. I think if you put That Blues forward group with Nashvilles defense, that is a team that could compete year in year out. I also think Levi will be better than Binnington long term which would help. (Not saying Levi’s career will be at a higher level than Binnington in that cup year, but will have more sustained success as a top 10 goalie).

The other issue with this, is that the Sabres have arguably the deepest/best forward prospect group in the NHL, while their defensive prospects are much more of a ? outside of Power.
They have young NHL forwards in Tage Thompson, Asplund, Cozens, Mitts, and Krebs, with a prospect group of Savoie, Quinn, JJP, Kulich, Ostlund, Neuchev, Kisakov, Poltapov, Bloom, Nadeau, and some more that could end up in the NHL. On defense, they have the young NHL guys of Dahlin, Samuelson, and Joki, and prospects Power and Johnson, but beyond that it’s more like shots in the dark with Komarov, Lindgren and Lycasen being the only ones with any chance at the NHL. The earliest those guys were picked was the 4th round.


Great... All those forwards will mature over the next 5 years and extend the window of competition or serve as trade fodder like it did in Tampa & Colorado.
28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 21
#27
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Quoting: Sabresguy1987
This is kind of hilarious coming from a team whos top 2 centers both want out of the org, their captain is a terrible person, their best prospect wouldnt crack the sabres top 10, they have an againg d core, their goalie is ufa in 1 year, their gm stood pat while the video coach sexually assualted a player, their coach is 88 years old and hometown hero refused the organization. Sure kyle conner is good but why on earth would the sabres trade a 19 year old dman with elite potential who they have 7 years of team control over?


One team's misfortune can be another team's opportunity.
28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 23
#28
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Quoting: jonh514
Great... All those forwards will mature over the next 5 years and extend the window of competition or serve as trade fodder like it did in Tampa & Colorado.

But without Power, our defense becomes average.
28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 23
#29
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Quoting: jonh514
The truth is that in any given season some of your players will play better and some will play worse. I think Mittelstadt and Krebs are unfortunately gonna be bottom 6 players on a cup contending team. That's not a bad thing to have, but hoping that they take huge leaps forward is ... Wishful thinking at this point. Krebs may break the top 6 on the wing.

I believe Cozens & TT can be a good top 6 tandem, but... If you can have a Scheifele back by trading Cozens that's a good option because you are getting a 70-80 pts center back and Cozens would be lucky to become that.

No team competes with 100% of players they drafted themselves.


Buffalo didn't draft Krebs, Tuch, Tage, Joker, Levi etc. Most of the teams that have won the cup in recent years all drafted their core players and then built around them with complimentary pieces.

The Avs drafted Makar, Mac, Landeskog, Rantanen, and Byram. The pieces they added were mostly compliments to fill out the roster.
The lightning drafted Hedman, Vasi, Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, and acquired guys like Cernak and Sergachev while they were still developing.
The Blues drafted Tarasenko, Parayko, Pietrangelo, and Binnington then added pieces around them along with RoR.
The Caps, Pens, Hawks, Kings all drafted most or all of their core pieces during their cup runs.

The pieces added to most of those rosters were not top end talent, most of what was added was solid middle 6 forwards and bottom 4 Dmen.
28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 25
#30
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Quoting: sabresparaavida
But without Power, our defense becomes average.


Bring in Pionk or sign Klingberg. Trade Krebs. You don't need 2 #1 pick defencemen to win a cup. Dahlin is great and gonna get better.
28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 27
#31
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Quoting: jonh514
One team's misfortune can be another team's opportunity.


Yes but you have indicated they have stuck in a perpetual rebuild which isnt actually true. Has been like 3 new gms who have their own vision and never stick to a plan, such as trading high picks for montour, miller, etc. If they see this through it will be the first actual rebuild. You truly know nothing about the prospect pool, levi won the best goalie in college hockey with a 950 save percentage, quinn won rookie of the year in the ahl, savoie is a top 3 talent in this years draft, not to mention many more. Why would they want to compete at this current moment when they are in a division where the top 3 is already a lock even if this trade was made they are still unlikely to win. Play it out for a couple more years, get your players signed to team friendly deals, make a few swings in FA where it costs you nothing especially a 19 years old 6 foot 6 dman who is extremely rare.
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28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 33
#32
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Quoting: Funksoljah
Buffalo didn't draft Krebs, Tuch, Tage, Joker, Levi etc. Most of the teams that have won the cup in recent years all drafted their core players and then built around them with complimentary pieces.

The Avs drafted Makar, Mac, Landeskog, Rantanen, and Byram. The pieces they added were mostly compliments to fill out the roster.
The lightning drafted Hedman, Vasi, Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, Cirelli, and acquired guys like Cernak and Sergachev while they were still developing.
The Blues drafted Tarasenko, Parayko, Pietrangelo, and Binnington then added pieces around them along with RoR.
The Caps, Pens, Hawks, Kings all drafted most or all of their core pieces during their cup runs.

The pieces added to most of those rosters were not top end talent, most of what was added was solid middle 6 forwards and bottom 4 Dmen.


If you look at the structure you are describing you are sort of making my point.

Avs - Elite Defencemen, Elite Center, Elite Winger, Elite Winger
Bolts - Elite Defencemen, Elite Goalie, Elite Center, Elite Center, Elite Winger
Blues - Elite Winger, Elite Defencemen, Good but not Elite Defencemen, Elite Goalie (plus they had a deep forward group AND trade for ROR!)
28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 40
#33
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Probably not enough coming from Winnipeg.sarcasm
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28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 44
#34
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Quoting: jonh514
If you look at the structure you are describing you are sort of making my point.

Avs - Elite Defencemen, Elite Center, Elite Winger, Elite Winger
Bolts - Elite Defencemen, Elite Goalie, Elite Center, Elite Center, Elite Winger
Blues - Elite Winger, Elite Defencemen, Good but not Elite Defencemen, Elite Goalie (plus they had a deep forward group AND trade for ROR!)


AND they all took YEARS to develop and get to that point. Buffalo had to reset their rebuild LAST YEAR. People keep acting like this is the same rebuild they started in 2015, and it's not. Believe it or not they were actually trying to win games and make the playoffs from the 15-16 season until last year when it turned back to development. They have a deep prospect pool with dozens of players between 18 - 23 who are all still developing, That's their core, not Skinner, not Okposo, not Girgensons, heck maybe not even Tuch. Yea they haven't made the playoffs, yea it's frustrating as a fan. That doesn't mean sell off top prospects so you can maybe have a shot to get in.

In 4 years they could very well see guys like Quinn, Peterka, Savoie, Kulich, Dahlin, Power, Levi etc etc become elite players.
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28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 46
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I don’t understand Winnipeg fans. You can covet Power and Dahlin and all you want, you’re never getting either one of them. You’re probably just impatient and don’t realize that Devon Levi will probably be the number one goaltender in Buffalo inside of three years, and potentially a Calder trophy nominee. The Sabres don’t need Krebs to be an elite center if Cozens and Savoie are. If Mittelstadt ends up not quite fitting in he and any other prospects that are deemed expendable become trade bait to find other pieces. We’ve been nothing if not patient, perhaps too patient because it’s been so long since we were moderately competitive, but it’s going to pay off.

Meanwhile you traded away a huge piece of your future (Laine and a 1st) for a center who doesn’t want to be in Winnipeg and can walk away in a year. By all indications that’s exactly what DuBois plans to do. You’ve built a decent team with a great goaltender that’s really just a good goaltender now, and a defense core that isn’t getting any younger. You’ve blown the prime years of Wheeler and Scheifele, now they both have 1 foot out the door or should. Kyle Connor is a pretty great player, but is he ready to be captain? The Jets had their shot and couldn’t get past Vegas or the Blues, now it’s probably time to begin rebuilding your core. Seems to me you’ve got a lot to worry about on your own team.
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28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 47
#36
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Quoting: Tjm220
I don’t understand Winnipeg fans. You can covet Power and Dahlin and all you want, you’re never getting either one of them. You’re probably just impatient and don’t realize that Devon Levi will probably be the number one goaltender in Buffalo inside of three years, and potentially a Calder trophy nominee. The Sabres don’t need Krebs to be an elite center if Cozens and Savoie are. If Mittelstadt ends up not quite fitting in he and any other prospects that are deemed expendable become trade bait to find other pieces. We’ve been nothing if not patient, perhaps too patient because it’s been so long since we were moderately competitive, but it’s going to pay off.

Meanwhile you traded away a huge piece of your future (Laine and a 1st) for a center who doesn’t want to be in Winnipeg and can walk away in a year. By all indications that’s exactly what DuBois plans to do. You’ve built a decent team with a great goaltender that’s really just a good goaltender now, and a defense core that isn’t getting any younger. You’ve blown the prime years of Wheeler and Scheifele, now they both have 1 foot out the door or should. Kyle Connor is a pretty great player, but is he ready to be captain? The Jets had their shot and couldn’t get past Vegas or the Blues, now it’s probably time to begin rebuilding your core. Seems to me you’ve got a lot to worry about on your own team.


It was actually written by a Habs fan, but I appreciate your rant.
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28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 53
#37
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Quoting: Sabresguy1987
Yes but you have indicated they have stuck in a perpetual rebuild which isnt actually true. Has been like 3 new gms who have their own vision and never stick to a plan, such as trading high picks for montour, miller, etc. If they see this through it will be the first actual rebuild. You truly know nothing about the prospect pool, levi won the best goalie in college hockey with a 950 save percentage, quinn won rookie of the year in the ahl, savoie is a top 3 talent in this years draft, not to mention many more. Why would they want to compete at this current moment when they are in a division where the top 3 is already a lock even if this trade was made they are still unlikely to win. Play it out for a couple more years, get your players signed to team friendly deals, make a few swings in FA where it costs you nothing especially a 19 years old 6 foot 6 dman who is extremely rare.


If I disagree with your understanding of the situation, it must be because I know nothing about the prospect pool? It sounds like you're saying they've already drafted everyone they need to in order to compete and wait for them to be competitive. I am advocating trading ONE of those plethora of prospects to be competitive now.

I am not denying the eventual dominance of Savoie or Levi. But I think TT is 28 by the time those guys are ready to make an impact and probably 27 by the time Power is. Okposo & Skinner will be long gone.

Why is it a problem to do both? Develop Levi & Savoie and the others but trade one player to compete now if you can? Owen Power is nice, but he's not exactly Bobby Orr. He's more like Dustin Byfuglien with better skating.

This team will finish middle of the pack this year which is the absolute worst thing for any team.
28 juill. 2022 à 9 h 56
#38
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Quoting: Funksoljah
AND they all took YEARS to develop and get to that point. Buffalo had to reset their rebuild LAST YEAR. People keep acting like this is the same rebuild they started in 2015, and it's not. Believe it or not they were actually trying to win games and make the playoffs from the 15-16 season until last year when it turned back to development. They have a deep prospect pool with dozens of players between 18 - 23 who are all still developing, That's their core, not Skinner, not Okposo, not Girgensons, heck maybe not even Tuch. Yea they haven't made the playoffs, yea it's frustrating as a fan. That doesn't mean sell off top prospects so you can maybe have a shot to get in.

In 4 years they could very well see guys like Quinn, Peterka, Savoie, Kulich, Dahlin, Power, Levi etc etc become elite players.


I am not advocating selling all those prospects... I am advocating selling 1 of them to accelerate the window to being competitive significantly. All the others can continue to take their time to develop. Why is that so wrong?
28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 0
#39
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Quoting: Mr_Canoehead
It was actually written by a Habs fan, but I appreciate your rant.


I am a Habs fan and a Sabres fan... Hate the Jets with the fire of 1000 suns though.
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28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 2
#40
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Quoting: jonh514
I am not advocating selling all those prospects... I am advocating selling 1 of them to accelerate the window to being competitive significantly. All the others can continue to take their time to develop. Why is that so wrong?

But Owen Power is not the player you trade to make that happen. Or Dahlin for that matter. You don’t trade for an established player until you have more established players to put around them. Swinging a deal for Kyle Connor doesn’t make sense for Buffalo because by the time the rest of the younger guys are ready to go Kyle Connor is ready to leave. That’s why they aren’t doing that for the next couple years. If in 2 to 3 years there is a 25 year old equivalent to Kyle Connor that the Sabres can acquire for a handful of the pieces that haven’t quite worked out, that’s when they do it.
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28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 2
#41
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Quoting: jonh514
I am not advocating selling all those prospects... I am advocating selling 1 of them to accelerate the window to being competitive significantly. All the others can continue to take their time to develop. Why is that so wrong?


Accelerate & Lengthen I should say!
28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 3
#42
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Quoting: Tjm220
But Owen Power is not the player you trade to make that happen. Or Dahlin for that matter. You don’t trade for an established player until you have more established players to put around them. Swinging a deal for Kyle Connor doesn’t make sense for Buffalo because by the time the rest of the younger guys are ready to go Kyle Connor is ready to leave. That’s why they aren’t doing that for the next couple years. If in 2 to 3 years there is a 25 year old equivalent to Kyle Connor that the Sabres can acquire for a handful of the pieces that haven’t quite worked out, that’s when they do it.


You will never get a Kyle Connor for a handful of pieces that don't work out. Not now. Not in 2-3 years. Elite talent has to be drafted or you have to trade Elite talent for it.
28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 3
#43
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Quoting: jonh514
If I disagree with your understanding of the situation, it must be because I know nothing about the prospect pool? It sounds like you're saying they've already drafted everyone they need to in order to compete and wait for them to be competitive. I am advocating trading ONE of those plethora of prospects to be competitive now.

I am not denying the eventual dominance of Savoie or Levi. But I think TT is 28 by the time those guys are ready to make an impact and probably 27 by the time Power is. Okposo & Skinner will be long gone.

Why is it a problem to do both? Develop Levi & Savoie and the others but trade one player to compete now if you can? Owen Power is nice, but he's not exactly Bobby Orr. He's more like Dustin Byfuglien with better skating.

This team will finish middle of the pack this year which is the absolute worst thing for any team.


How old were stamkos, hedman etc when they won their first cup? Tage being 28 is fine lol. I cant think of a more opposite comp for power than buff, the guy has played literally 9 games and his underlyings were among the top of the team as well as scored twice lol. Also ranked by multiple sources as the number 1 prospect in the nhl. And no middle of the pack is bad when your prospect pool sucks such as the islanders or sharks who have no direction. Growth this year and finishing 13th last is fine in my books. Grabbing ready players now who have the potential to leave in a couple years just blocks spots for the young guy such as conner taking quinns spot in line up and powerplay. Not saying quinn is as good as conner but it is kind of dumb especially from an undesirable market such as buffalo to lose players who you have team control of for 6-7 years for players who will choose to leave in 2 years in ufa for example.
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28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 4
#44
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Quoting: jonh514
Accelerate & Lengthen I should say!


That's literally a contradiction
28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 10
#45
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Quoting: Sabresguy1987
How old were stamkos, hedman etc when they won their first cup? Tage being 28 is fine lol. I cant think of a more opposite comp for power than buff, the guy has played literally 9 games and his underlyings were among the top of the team as well as scored twice lol. Also ranked by multiple sources as the number 1 prospect in the nhl. And no middle of the pack is bad when your prospect pool sucks such as the islanders or sharks who have no direction. Growth this year and finishing 13th last is fine in my books. Grabbing ready players now who have the potential to leave in a couple years just blocks spots for the young guy such as conner taking quinns spot in line up and powerplay. Not saying quinn is as good as conner but it is kind of dumb especially from an undesirable market such as buffalo to lose players who you have team control of for 6-7 years for players who will choose to leave in 2 years in ufa for example.


I would argue that with a Dahlin, Thompson, and Connor firing on all cylinders... Buffalo becomes a damn attractive market. Don't forget that you will have to PAY Dahlin, Power, Thompson, Cozens huge money to keep them all and it won't leave much money on the wings.

Fair play on Stamkos winning when he's older.

Here are a few scouting reports comparing him to Byfuglien written by smarter hockey people than me:

https://thehockeywriters.com/owen-power-2021-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/
https://smahtscouting.com/2020/12/14/scouting-report-owen-power/
28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 13
#46
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Quoting: wojme
That's literally a contradiction


No. It starts sooner and lasts longer.
28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 13
#47
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Quoting: jonh514
I would argue that with a Dahlin, Thompson, and Connor firing on all cylinders... Buffalo becomes a damn attractive market. Don't forget that you will have to PAY Dahlin, Power, Thompson, Cozens huge money to keep them all and it won't leave much money on the wings.

Fair play on Stamkos winning when he's older.

Here are a few scouting reports comparing him to Byfuglien written by smarter hockey people than me:

https://thehockeywriters.com/owen-power-2021-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/
https://smahtscouting.com/2020/12/14/scouting-report-owen-power/


I mean sure that makes it competitive but I still think that trio is well behind colorado, tampa, toronto, florida, edmonton etc. I mean just from what I have watched, he is much more composed than buff and is not as flashy in terms of physicality or offensively, Him and dahlin will be a duo who can play roughly 50 mins of each hockey game in the future
28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 19
#48
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Quoting: Sabresguy1987
I mean sure that makes it competitive but I still think that trio is well behind colorado, tampa, toronto, florida, edmonton etc. I mean just from what I have watched, he is much more composed than buff and is not as flashy in terms of physicality or offensively, Him and dahlin will be a duo who can play roughly 50 mins of each hockey game in the future


Not contradicting that they can eat 50 min... But Dahlin is better than any D on the Leafs, Connor is as good as Marner or Landeskog (albeit he has his own style), and Thompson... I admit Thompson is a bit of a crapshoot. I am optimistic that he scored 35 goals and 70 points this season and throws his weight around better than Matthews, Point, or Mac.

Anything can happen in the second season.
28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 20
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Quoting: jonh514
Not contradicting that they can eat 50 min... But Dahlin is better than any D on the Leafs, Connor is as good as Marner or Landeskog (albeit he has his own style), and Thompson... I admit Thompson is a bit of a crapshoot. I am optimistic that he scores 35 goals and 70 points this season and throws his weight around better than Matthews, Point, or Mac.

Anything can happen in the second season.


Oh and Hellebuyck is just under Vasi but way better than anything the Leafs or Avs will ice.
28 juill. 2022 à 10 h 21
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Quoting: jonh514
You will never get a Kyle Connor for a handful of pieces that don't work out. Not now. Not in 2-3 years. Elite talent has to be drafted or you have to trade Elite talent for it.

I’m not saying Kyle Connor is the player they trade for in 2 to 3 years. For that matter they may not need a 40 to 50 goal player to add to the core they’ve already built at that point. They might only be looking to bring in a guy who can score 25 to 30, from a team that doesn’t have any prospects around him, and two younger players who don’t have the room to develop with the Sabres because their roster is already full and a draft pick just might be enough to get that done. Look what they paid for Jeff Skinner when they traded for him, next to nothing.
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