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(CGY/FLA) - Tkachuk for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt

Who won the trade?
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25 juill. à 18 h 13
#176
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
This is still not the worst trade this off-season.


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25 juill. à 18 h 26
#177
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Quoting: ConnorMcJesus_III
DeBrincat


Pacioretty 2
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26 juill. à 8 h 2
#178
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Quoting: Random2152
Holy ****. Capital B Blockbuster.
This is fun. Is this what the NBA feels like all the time?

Seriously what the hell is the Atlantic divison? This arms race is just getting silly.

And with everything going on, will Huberdeau want to stay in Calgary? His contract is up soon. Weegar's contract is up too btw. I don't see why not but I didn't see why not with Tkachuk or Gaudreau either so.

Anyway time to be controversial: Huberdeau is a great playmaker, one of the best, but he is very one dimensional in his talents and as such gets overrated. Weegar is great so that helps to even it out but with the contracts I'd rather Tkachuk signed for 8 years at 9.5.

Literally who cares about a 1st in the year 3000. Time value is a thing people. That guy won't play until 2030.

I like this for Florida much more than for Calgary. They should have gone for a futures package and rebuilt (Lundell, etc from Florida). They weren't good enough before, just got worse and if they can't sign Huberdeau they are ****ed. And now they have missed on the top of the 2023 draft class too. Not that its a bad return, hell its a good return but I just don't think its the RIGHT return


i expect them to take a step back this season and deal weeger and johnny both at the deadline and get a huge return.
26 juill. à 10 h 47
#179
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I need some help with something here. I’ve been judging this trade from Calgary’s perspective on the assumption that Tkachuk would have become a UFA next summer if they had kept him. However, I’m wondering if that’s true. He turned down his qualifying offer and the team filed for arbitration. I thought that if a player gets to an arbitration hearing, the arbitrator would award a one-year contract, but Cap Friendly’s arbitration calculator says, “Salary arbitration is a contract negotiation method that uses a third party arbitrator to determine a fair contract term and length for an expiring RFA player.” This implies that a player who goes to arbitration could get a multi-year contract. How does the arbitrator decide how long the contract will be? Could this have been a way for Calgary to have got more than one year out of Tkachuk? I think if they could have got at least two more years out of him, they might have been better off to keep him, because most of their other core players are signed for two years, so that seems to be their win window. This trade may have reduced that window to one year.

Another way for Calgary to get him for multiple years could have been not to request arbitration and hope that somebody signs him to an offer sheet, but if Tkachuk wanted out, I suspect he wouldn’t have signed an offer sheet knowing Calgary could match it. Obviously the trade worked out well for him, but he was lucky that the team was willing and able to make it happen. It seems to me that if he wanted to get out from under team control, his best bet would have been to accept his qualifying offer.
26 juill. à 23 h 10
#180
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Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN
Pacioretty 2

I know lol
27 juill. à 15 h 53
#181
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Quoting: jr400

I thought that if a player gets to an arbitration hearing, the arbitrator would award a one-year contract, but Cap Friendly’s arbitration calculator says, “Salary arbitration is a contract negotiation method that uses a third party arbitrator to determine a fair contract term and length for an expiring RFA player.” This implies that a player who goes to arbitration could get a multi-year contract. How does the arbitrator decide how long the contract will be? Could this have been a way for Calgary to have got more than one year out of Tkachuk?

No, arbitration is never going to award a team any UFA years.
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27 juill. à 17 h 20
#182
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I couldn't be bothered to read all of the posts, and maybe this has been addressed, but Calgary had almost no leverage and still got this haul. Tkatchuk would have likely sat out the season start and really dragged this thing out if he had to.

It didn't matter that Tkatchuk was an RFA. He and his agent knew how to massage this situation for maximum benefit. Every team knew he wasn't signing in Calgary long-term. The writings been on the wall for at least 1-2 seasons.

Sure, it's not ideal, but they would have had to trade Tkatchuk at next year's deadline, even if he had taken his QO. They weren't walking him to free agency. A Rights trade would have been crap.

Even if they can't sign Huberdeau and Weegar, and don't flip them, this is still a win. They should have tried to get a 2nd rounder in this deal. And if they do flip both, and end up with 3 first rounders for Tkatchuk, it's an even greater win.

Calgary got 6 seasons of service from Tkatchuk plus that haul and the potential haul-to-be from Huberdeau and Weegar being traded. Or they sign them and it's great.

Tkatchuk was going to leave no matter what. Calgary had 5-6 teams to pick the best deal possible. The best offer should have been a first and a prospect since those other teams knew Calgary was in a jam. But Calgary miraculously got what they got.

I'm still astounded.
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27 juill. à 18 h 49
#183
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Modifié 27 juill. à 18 h 57
Quoting: Shock
So if TKACHUK resigned with Calgary before the trade, does it mean Calgary paid that $8M signing bonus?


Quoting: DirtyDangle
dont think so. he'd lose a lot of money in taxes that way.


Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Only way it'd work if it was a true sign and trade. Calgary paid his signing bonus


Quoting: DirtyDangle
not necessarily. as long as he was on the panthers roster by 5pm est then they are on the hook.


Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Yeah, but he signed the contract with Calgary. As soon as he signed that contract, he would receive the signing bonus (for signing the contract).


Quoting: DirtyDangle
not 100% sure that's how it works. i thinking it might just be due by the end of the day. but if it was payed by calgary it would explain the return better.


You don't need to pay the signing bonus, on the 1st day of the contract. Kovalchuk had 2 payments of "signing bonus" in year 2 on his contract with L.A. They can make that payment on a day that they negotiate (most often July 1st) but not always
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27 juill. à 19 h 6
#184
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https://www.hockeyzoneplus.com/salaries/83074-ilya-kovalchuk

Look at year 2019-20
28 juill. à 9 h 24
#185
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Quoting: JohnDoe86
I couldn't be bothered to read all of the posts, and maybe this has been addressed, but Calgary had almost no leverage and still got this haul. Tkatchuk would have likely sat out the season start and really dragged this thing out if he had to.

It didn't matter that Tkatchuk was an RFA. He and his agent knew how to massage this situation for maximum benefit. Every team knew he wasn't signing in Calgary long-term. The writings been on the wall for at least 1-2 seasons.

Sure, it's not ideal, but they would have had to trade Tkatchuk at next year's deadline, even if he had taken his QO. They weren't walking him to free agency. A Rights trade would have been crap.

Even if they can't sign Huberdeau and Weegar, and don't flip them, this is still a win. They should have tried to get a 2nd rounder in this deal. And if they do flip both, and end up with 3 first rounders for Tkatchuk, it's an even greater win.

Calgary got 6 seasons of service from Tkatchuk plus that haul and the potential haul-to-be from Huberdeau and Weegar being traded. Or they sign them and it's great.

Tkatchuk was going to leave no matter what. Calgary had 5-6 teams to pick the best deal possible. The best offer should have been a first and a prospect since those other teams knew Calgary was in a jam. But Calgary miraculously got what they got.

I'm still astounded.


I agree. Calgary didn’t want picks and prospects because they want to win now. Sure, they lost Gaudreau, but good teams can often survive the loss of one star player – the Islanders actually got better after Tavares left – and they’re a solid team in a lot of other areas. But losing two stars would be more of a challenge. So even if they could only get one more year out of Tkachuk, it didn’t make sense to trade him unless it was a deal that could improve the team now. Maybe they’re wrong to think they still have a contender without Gaudreau, but they definitely didn’t want to blow it up and start over.

I think this trade is much more of a gamble for Florida than for Calgary. They didn’t have to do it. They haven’t had difficulty signing players, so they likely could have kept both Huberdeau and Weegar beyond next season and found a way to fit them under the cap if they wanted to. Tkachuk is younger, so it looks like a good move for the future, but I don’t think that’s the main reason they wanted him. As a Presidents’ Trophy winner, they’ve been prioritizing the ability to win now. I think they looked at what happened in the playoffs this year, and decided they couldn’t get to the next level without a player like Tkachuk, even if it meant re-making their core to get him. Maybe they’re right, or maybe this was an over-reaction to one isolated failure, a desperation move by a team that had no reason to be desperate. I guess we’ll see.
28 juill. à 13 h 9
#186
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I've been at an isolated camp for a while so this is really my first time to comment on the trade.
I never understood all the doom and gloom for the Flames when they lost their two top wingers (Gaudreau to UFA) and Tkachuk in a trade).( actually before the trade was made,
Flames had allotted 19m for those two players. So they get Huberneau and Weager for about 9m and now about 10m for a good UFA(s). Even if Huberneau and Weager are kept for the whole season the Flames then have about 9m in cap coming up 2023, plus the 10m on players they may or might not spend in 22/23.
So I think the Flames did very well in the trade.
Florida.....well they got certainty with Tkachuk's long term deal., though I don't think they will be as good in 22/23 as they were in the 21/22.
5 août à 0 h 23
#187
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Neat.
5 août à 0 h 29
#188
Farewell
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So, oversimplified, here's what happened:

The Flames were faced with Matthew Tkachuk walking away in a year for nothing. So they traded 8 years of Matthew Tkachuk (24 years old) at a $9.5 million AAV to the Panthers for 8 years of Jonathan Huberdeau (30 years old) at a $10.5 million AAV+1 year (for now) of MacKenzie Weegar at $3.25 million AAV+Schwindt+1st.

Yes, the Huberdeau deal is likely to not age well. But considering how dire things looked for the Flames 2 weeks ago, this is incredible. They get an elite winger coming off his best season to date, plus a top-pairing defenseman that they can still extend, plus a fairly decent prospect, plus a 1st. It's an incredible turnaround.
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5 août à 9 h 57
#189
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Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
So, oversimplified, here's what happened:

The Flames were faced with Matthew Tkachuk walking away in a year for nothing. So they traded 8 years of Matthew Tkachuk (24 years old) at a $9.5 million AAV to the Panthers for 8 years of Jonathan Huberdeau (30 years old) at a $10.5 million AAV+1 year (for now) of MacKenzie Weegar at $3.25 million AAV+Schwindt+1st.

Yes, the Huberdeau deal is likely to not age well. But considering how dire things looked for the Flames 2 weeks ago, this is incredible. They get an elite winger coming off his best season to date, plus a top-pairing defenseman that they can still extend, plus a fairly decent prospect, plus a 1st. It's an incredible turnaround.


If I'm a Flames fan I'm feeling pretty damn good today. Wasn't this also the team people were saying needed a shakeup for YEARS? Well, those folks got what they asked for. Let the Battle of Alberta rage on.
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6 août à 9 h 34
#190
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Modifié 6 août à 9 h 40
Quoting: PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188
So, oversimplified, here's what happened:

The Flames were faced with Matthew Tkachuk walking away in a year for nothing. So they traded 8 years of Matthew Tkachuk (24 years old) at a $9.5 million AAV to the Panthers for 8 years of Jonathan Huberdeau (30 years old) at a $10.5 million AAV+1 year (for now) of MacKenzie Weegar at $3.25 million AAV+Schwindt+1st.

Yes, the Huberdeau deal is likely to not age well. But considering how dire things looked for the Flames 2 weeks ago, this is incredible. They get an elite winger coming off his best season to date, plus a top-pairing defenseman that they can still extend, plus a fairly decent prospect, plus a 1st. It's an incredible turnaround.


Huberdeau is not ONLY elite but has improved every year in his prime. His trajectory keeps ascending. This is already a HUGE win for the Flames and everyone else here that galaxy brained this deal thinking 3 steps ahead can see how dumb that thinking makes you! You take the talent in front of you not ahead.
This is the same mistake ppl here make overvaluing picks when they have proved nothing! Certainty is worth something, of course but you can't be conservative if you want TO WIN! Flames pushed their chips to the table. The galaxy brain folks would never take any risks and be average throughout.
Funny enough a lot of these same ppl overvalue 1st round picks and wouldnt sent you back a 1st if it meant having to 'overpay' and win a Cup. Look no further than the Lehkonen trade. Everyone said Sakic made a massive mistake 'overpaying' for depth. I think Sakic knows what he's doing after winning a Cup! That depth played on the 1st line with clinching goals in the Conference and Cup Finals
19 août à 18 h 2
#191
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Cap Friendly’s description of this trade says the condition on Florida’s 1st-round pick is “lottery protected”. Does anybody know exactly what the definition of “lottery protected” is? Does it mean they retain the pick only if they win one of the lottery draws, or they retain it if they are in the lottery, regardless of whether they win it or not (i.e., if they are out of the playoffs)?
sam. à 13 h 12
#192
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Really bad look on the part of the Panthers. Huberdeau was 100% willing to re sign and it sounds like he was completely blindsided.
 
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