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(CGY/FLA) - Tkachuk for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt

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23 juill. à 19 h 1
#151
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Quoting: CD282
IMO the odds are low that this is a W for Calgary. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Huberdeau is on another team this time next year... there's even a possibility that he's on another team this time next month, and one media guy reported that Treliving is already taking calls on Huberdeau.


That doesn't really change much, Calgary came out with way more assets than Florida. The only way this is a Flames L is if they lose both Weegar + Huberdeau in FA for nothing, even then, they get another year with a superstar winger.
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23 juill. à 19 h 9
#152
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
That doesn't really change much, Calgary came out with way more assets than Florida. The only way this is a Flames L is if they lose both Weegar + Huberdeau in FA for nothing, even then, they get another year with a superstar winger.


IMO they'll need to keep both, and on reasonable deals, to win this.

8 years of Tkachuk is worth more than, say, 1 year of Huberdeau + 6 years of Weegar + 2025 1st round pick. Of course, if they flip Huberdeau for a haul that changes the equation.
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23 juill. à 19 h 42
#153
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
That doesn't really change much, Calgary came out with way more assets than Florida. The only way this is a Flames L is if they lose both Weegar + Huberdeau in FA for nothing, even then, they get another year with a superstar winger.


I don't think I get how ppl are overthinking this. They got assets that are worth something NOW! And, that's discounting the fact that Calgary's leverage wasnt great after losing Gaudreau.
Calgary has so many angles here. Florida just boxed themselves in as they are going ALL IN! Whereas Calgary, can go in different directions.
23 juill. à 20 h 36
#154
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Dannnng... thought Hubi would be a Florida Lifer.
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23 juill. à 20 h 38
#155
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Quoting: TheCatKhan
Dannnng... thought Hubi would be a Florida Lifer.


I did too, but now there's a realistic chance he returns home
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23 juill. à 22 h 1
#156
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Here is how I view the trade from both sides.

Florida gave up:
-Huberdeau for the next 8 years (since he would have re-signed with them)
-1 year of Weegar (or his trade return if they went that direction, which if FLA does not take back cap, might be as low as a 2nd round pick in this awful trade market.)
-2024 1st Round Pick
-Prospect worth a 3rd Round Pick

Florida received:
-Upgraded from Huberdeau to Tkachuk for the next 8 years
-4th Round Pick

People will raise an eyebrow at me saying 1 year of Weegar is only worth a 2nd, but look at this trade market. Very few teams both need a RHD and can take a player at 3.25M without sending cap back to Florida. The Bjorkstrand trade is a lesson in what to expect with trades right now.

When you work out all the offsetting parts, Florida basically gave up what I think was a 1st+2nd (or 1 year of Weegar then he walks) to upgrade Huberdeau to Tkachuk long term.

_____________

Calgary received:
-FLA 2024 1st,
-Prospect worth a 3rd Round Pick
-TDL Return for Huberdeau (1st, 2nd, 3rd type return?)
-Return for Weegar (or whatever defenseman he facilitates them flipping if he re-signs)

Calgary gave up:
-1 year of Tkachuk
-4th Round Pick

Calgary will likely walk away with something along the lines of two future 1st round picks, a 2nd, and then 2-3 prospects who are worth 2nd-3rd round picks. They might end up with three first round picks if Weegar has a strong season and prices pickup at the deadline, since more teams would be able to fit him in at that time than they would now. I also think there might be an avenue to work with Ottawa and get an inflated return for Weegar if Calgary takes Zaitsev.

There is a chance Huberdeau will re-sign, but given that both Calgary's best players just walked away, and Canadian teams have trouble attracting talent to stay, it is best to assume he is a 1 year rental who wil be flipped in season.

If Calgary straight up receive two 1sts, a 2nd, and two B/C prospects for Tkachuk, would Flames fans be happy at that result?
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23 juill. à 22 h 17
#157
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Quoting: budgeteam
Here is how I view the trade from both sides.

Florida gave up:
-Huberdeau for the next 8 years (since he would have re-signed with them)
-1 year of Weegar (or his trade return if they went that direction, which if FLA does not take back cap, might be as low as a 2nd round pick in this awful trade market.)
-2024 1st Round Pick
-Prospect worth a 3rd Round Pick

Florida received:
-Upgraded from Huberdeau to Tkachuk for the next 8 years
-4th Round Pick

People will raise an eyebrow at me saying 1 year of Weegar is only worth a 2nd, but look at this trade market. Very few teams both need a RHD and can take a player at 3.25M without sending cap back to Florida. The Bjorkstrand trade is a lesson in what to expect with trades right now.

When you work out all the offsetting parts, Florida basically gave up what I think was a 1st+2nd (or 1 year of Weegar then he walks) to upgrade Huberdeau to Tkachuk long term.

_____________

Calgary received:
-FLA 2024 1st,
-Prospect worth a 3rd Round Pick
-TDL Return for Huberdeau (1st, 2nd, 3rd type return?)
-Return for Weegar (or whatever defenseman he facilitates them flipping if he re-signs)

Calgary gave up:
-1 year of Tkachuk
-4th Round Pick

Calgary will likely walk away with something along the lines of two future 1st round picks, a 2nd, and then 2-3 prospects who are worth 2nd-3rd round picks. They might end up with three first round picks if Weegar has a strong season and prices pickup at the deadline, since more teams would be able to fit him in at that time than they would now. I also think there might be an avenue to work with Ottawa and get an inflated return for Weegar if Calgary takes Zaitsev.

There is a chance Huberdeau will re-sign, but given that both Calgary's best players just walked away, and Canadian teams have trouble attracting talent to stay, it is best to assume he is a 1 year rental who wil be flipped in season.

If Calgary straight up receive two 1sts, a 2nd, and two B/C prospects for Tkachuk, would Flames fans be happy at that result?


2025 first lottery protected that turns into 2026 first If in lottery is the pick. 2024 1st was in the Giroux deal. Your question at the end depends on who you ask. If rebuilding yes. Continuing to compete for the cup like last season no. Take Huberdeau instead of picks if remaining competitive
24 juill. à 0 h 56
#158
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Quoting: Boltsbeathabs
As a lightning fan I like it


As a person who has also routed for the lighting during detroit struggles. To be fair, we're you ever really worried about FLA to begin with? I mean best season ever and still swept, in convincing fashion
24 juill. à 1 h 18
#159
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Quoting: budgeteam
Here is how I view the trade from both sides.

Florida gave up:
-Huberdeau for the next 8 years (since he would have re-signed with them)
-1 year of Weegar (or his trade return if they went that direction, which if FLA does not take back cap, might be as low as a 2nd round pick in this awful trade market.)
-2024 1st Round Pick
-Prospect worth a 3rd Round Pick

Florida received:
-Upgraded from Huberdeau to Tkachuk for the next 8 years
-4th Round Pick

People will raise an eyebrow at me saying 1 year of Weegar is only worth a 2nd, but look at this trade market. Very few teams both need a RHD and can take a player at 3.25M without sending cap back to Florida. The Bjorkstrand trade is a lesson in what to expect with trades right now.

When you work out all the offsetting parts, Florida basically gave up what I think was a 1st+2nd (or 1 year of Weegar then he walks) to upgrade Huberdeau to Tkachuk long term.

_____________

Calgary received:
-FLA 2024 1st,
-Prospect worth a 3rd Round Pick
-TDL Return for Huberdeau (1st, 2nd, 3rd type return?)
-Return for Weegar (or whatever defenseman he facilitates them flipping if he re-signs)

Calgary gave up:
-1 year of Tkachuk
-4th Round Pick

Calgary will likely walk away with something along the lines of two future 1st round picks, a 2nd, and then 2-3 prospects who are worth 2nd-3rd round picks. They might end up with three first round picks if Weegar has a strong season and prices pickup at the deadline, since more teams would be able to fit him in at that time than they would now. I also think there might be an avenue to work with Ottawa and get an inflated return for Weegar if Calgary takes Zaitsev.

There is a chance Huberdeau will re-sign, but given that both Calgary's best players just walked away, and Canadian teams have trouble attracting talent to stay, it is best to assume he is a 1 year rental who wil be flipped in season.

If Calgary straight up receive two 1sts, a 2nd, and two B/C prospects for Tkachuk, would Flames fans be happy at that result?


I appreciate the effort to compile and explain the factors the way you did. I would also include the AAV cap hits as they are important. I don't think Huberdeau would have gotten $9.5 for 8 years; so the delta between his expected AAV versus Tkachuk's has to weigh in; especially considering Florida is really in Cap hell now. Weegar's current great AAV could be mitigated by an expected "overpay" next year; and I don't fault Florida from trying to capitalize on the market by trading him; but they exposed a huge hole in an area that was already one of their weaknesses (quality defensive depth) at a point in the off season that is extremely difficult to remedy.

They seem to be playing the long game; despite being in a current Cup contending window. Until they can get out of the Bobrovsky and Hornqvist contracts (but then they have Spencer Knight RFA) they really are limited in what steps they can take.
24 juill. à 1 h 51
#160
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So if TKACHUK resigned with Calgary before the trade, does it mean Calgary paid that $8M signing bonus?
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24 juill. à 3 h 46
#161
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Quoting: Hollands_missing_brain
As a person who has also routed for the lighting during detroit struggles. To be fair, we're you ever really worried about FLA to begin with? I mean best season ever and still swept, in convincing fashion


Remember what the Lightning did after having the best record and getting swept in convincing fashion?
24 juill. à 9 h 41
#162
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Quoting: Shock
So if TKACHUK resigned with Calgary before the trade, does it mean Calgary paid that $8M signing bonus?


dont think so. he'd lose a lot of money in taxes that way.
24 juill. à 10 h 6
#163
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
dont think so. he'd lose a lot of money in taxes that way.


Only way it'd work if it was a true sign and trade. Calgary paid his signing bonus
24 juill. à 10 h 44
#164
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Only way it'd work if it was a true sign and trade. Calgary paid his signing bonus


not necessarily. as long as he was on the panthers roster by 5pm est then they are on the hook.

Quoting: from-nhl-cba
For any Player who is on a Club's Active Roster, Injured Reserve, Injured
Non-Roster or Non-Roster pursuant to an approved and registered SPC at
5:00 p.m. New York time on a particular day during a League Year, such
Player shall receive his Player Salary and Bonuses for that day, and such
Player Salary and Bonuses shall be included in the calculation of the
Club's Actual Club Salary and Averaged Club Salary for that day
24 juill. à 10 h 54
#165
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
not necessarily. as long as he was on the panthers roster by 5pm est then they are on the hook.


Yeah, but he signed the contract with Calgary. As soon as he signed that contract, he would receive the signing bonus (for signing the contract).
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24 juill. à 11 h 24
#166
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Yeah, but he signed the contract with Calgary. As soon as he signed that contract, he would receive the signing bonus (for signing the contract).


Then it would count toward Calgary's cap then too according to the CBA reference.

Rather than guessing, are there any sources that explain why it wouldn't be paid by Florida?
24 juill. à 11 h 25
#167
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Quoting: Boltsbeathabs
Remember what the Lightning did after having the best record and getting swept in convincing fashion?


They kept their core together, added supplemental grit/scoring depth and punched thru.

Avs are similar.

Florida just blew up their core
24 juill. à 11 h 41
#168
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
Then it would count toward Calgary's cap then too according to the CBA reference.

Rather than guessing, are there any sources that explain why it wouldn't be paid by Florida?


I'm taking an educated guess at this point. It was a true sign and trade by Calgary (first in league history), so you'd have to assume they paid the signing bonus, unless there is some sort of CBA work around
24 juill. à 13 h 30
#169
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Yeah, but he signed the contract with Calgary. As soon as he signed that contract, he would receive the signing bonus (for signing the contract).


not 100% sure that's how it works. i thinking it might just be due by the end of the day. but if it was payed by calgary it would explain the return better.
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24 juill. à 13 h 42
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I'm taking an educated guess at this point. It was a true sign and trade by Calgary (first in league history), so you'd have to assume they paid the signing bonus, unless there is some sort of CBA work around


Quoting: DirtyDangle
not 100% sure that's how it works. i thinking it might just be due by the end of the day. but if it was payed by calgary it would explain the return better.


This could be a big deal towards Calgary's cap for this year. I assume somebody here at CapFriendly has access to details eventually or can interpret the CBA as to how this might work. Conversely this could benefit Florida's cap picture.

Definitely a unique blockbuster trade and signing situation.
24 juill. à 13 h 59
#171
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
I appreciate the effort to compile and explain the factors the way you did. I would also include the AAV cap hits as they are important. I don't think Huberdeau would have gotten $9.5 for 8 years; so the delta between his expected AAV versus Tkachuk's has to weigh in; especially considering Florida is really in Cap hell now. Weegar's current great AAV could be mitigated by an expected "overpay" next year; and I don't fault Florida from trying to capitalize on the market by trading him; but they exposed a huge hole in an area that was already one of their weaknesses (quality defensive depth) at a point in the off season that is extremely difficult to remedy.

They seem to be playing the long game; despite being in a current Cup contending window. Until they can get out of the Bobrovsky and Hornqvist contracts (but then they have Spencer Knight RFA) they really are limited in what steps they can take.


I'll be shocked if Huberdeau resigns in Calgary. He's an East Coast guy with desires to play in Mtl coming off an MVP caliber year. Teams will bend over backwards to pay him including Mtl with 23 million in cap space next year and he's already said in 2021 news article that he wants to go there!
Mackenzie Weegar with that defence and Sutter is IMO a perfect match. I'd be stunned if he doesn't resign. Sutter will make him even better after what he did to Zadorov/Gudbranson.

The Flames will still be relevant w/o Huberdeau as they have a solid defence, goalie and Sutter,

That would mean Weegar, 2025 1st, good prospect plus the Huberdeau return (who's the same age, term, salary as JT Miller) so look at those returns for Miller being passed around. That in any reality is a win for Calgary.

3 first round picks
Huberdeau
Weeger
2 prospects
3rd rounder
4th rounder

For

2 months of Claude Giroux
2 Months of Ben Chiarot
Matthew Tkachuk

That ain’t want good business for Florida
24 juill. à 14 h 12
#172
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Quoting: Shock
So if TKACHUK resigned with Calgary before the trade, does it mean Calgary paid that $8M signing bonus?


Signing bonuses do not have to be paid on the day a contract is signed. The team and player stipulate the date for the signing bonus. They can be paid at any time during the season. They can be paid in multiple parts.

The most common date is probably July 1st, or early in July, but it can vary player to player.

In this scenario, I would imagine Calgary did not pay the signing bonus. They likely chose a later date to circumvent Calgary paying it.
24 juill. à 14 h 23
#173
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Quoting: Koskinen_The_Great
I'll be shocked if Huberdeau resigns in Calgary. He's an East Coast guy with desires to play in Mtl coming off an MVP caliber year. Teams will bend over backwards to pay him including Mtl with 23 million in cap space next year and he's already said in 2021 news article that he wants to go there!
Mackenzie Weegar with that defence and Sutter is IMO a perfect match. I'd be stunned if he doesn't resign. Sutter will make him even better after what he did to Zadorov/Gudbranson.

The Flames will still be relevant w/o Huberdeau as they have a solid defence, goalie and Sutter,

That would mean Weegar, 2025 1st, good prospect plus the Huberdeau return (who's the same age, term, salary as JT Miller) so look at those returns for Miller being passed around. That in any reality is a win for Calgary.

3 first round picks
Huberdeau
Weeger
2 prospects
3rd rounder
4th rounder

For

2 months of Claude Giroux
2 Months of Ben Chiarot
Matthew Tkachuk

That ain’t want good business for Florida


I don't think it's fair to include their rentals in with this trade.

Their "asset management" with their 1st round picks is a mixed bag. They got Reinhart on a mid-term extension for a 1st round pick and a good goalie prospect. Which was a position of strength for them, as they have Knight already. After using Reinhart for two seasons, they could easily turn around and trade him at the draft next year for a 1st and a prospect. Will they do that? Maybe not. But from an asset management POV, they opened themselves up to rent Reinhart for two seasons with the opportunity cost only being cap.

I also don't think paying a 1st+Weegar+3rd Round prospect to upgrade Huberdeau to Tkachuk is that bad of a move. People are getting sticker shock with Weegar, but given that Florida already talked an extension with him, it is possible that they couldn't meet his ask. With how depressed the trade market is right now, Weegar won't return very much at all. The only way he will get a huge return is if Florida takes back Zaitsev from Ottawa to inflate the return, which they weren't in a position to do. If they move Weegar without taking back cap, he might get a 2nd round pick. It's a trend this off season that there are very few takers for good players. It's a buyers market.

I think with Huberdeau, they may have been afraid his value was inflated coming off of a career year. Barkov has a habit of making guys around him better. Huberdeau was in a position to ask for a similar number to Tkachuk, 9-10 million. Would they rather pay Tkachuk 9-10, or Huberdeau? If they felt backed into a corner where they could either overpay Huberdeau, or risk losing him for nothing, then giving up what I think was the equivalent of a 1st+2nd+3rd in this trade market was a very good solution. Not to mention, Tkachuk is an upgrade, and a very unique player.

The TDL pickups were ill advised, but I don't think giving up a 1st for a long term move like this was a bad move.
25 juill. à 9 h 41
#174
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Quoting: Boltsbeathabs
Remember what the Lightning did after having the best record and getting swept in convincing fashion?


While I understand that, TB had "pedigree" prior to flopping. 2015 SC appearance and many contender like years. Also kept their core (Stammer, kuch, hed, Serg, AC, palat, etc)

FLA really only this year looked like a viable threat and they were washed. Hard to comeback when you start as a never was, sort of speak. Now has removed a good chunk of their core, not to mention their stamkos in my opinion
25 juill. à 10 h 56
#175
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Quoting: mondo
Think this will be fine for both teams looking back after a few years.

It was very likely that Huberdeau and Weegar weren't going to re-sign in Florida once their deals were up next offseason. Tkachuk signing for 8 years ensures they've got an elite winger for whatever attempt at the cup they're going to try to make. Calgary replaces at least one of their offensive wingers and gets a real analytical daring for a defenseman, which makes some of their D's available for sale if they need to improve the defense. The first and kid going to Calgary are more or less washes for now; not going to know if those futures pan for for another 3 years.


So the "Huberdeau wouldn't have re-signed" take here might be completely off:





Florida might've been afraid he would've have re-signed but the fact he was willing to come to the table early suggests an agreement could've been reached. Bad look for the Panthers to just send him off like that but business is business I guess.
 
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