Hoping to make this a respectful place to comment on the current situation in Hockey Canada. With the recent scandal with the World Junior teams, the fact that Hockey Canada had a fund to use as a payout to have this cases settled, IMO the International Ice Hockey Federation needs to ban Team Canada from participating in future events till a major change in the governing body takes place.



Thoughts?

Again please be respectful, if you think that’s too harsh or not harsh enough, let’s have a dialogue. Also, this is not a forum to discuss who we think is guilty.

I am just really disappointed and pissed of that this went on and a begging for a change.

I like the idea of keeping this topic out of the NHL offseason thread if only because it deserves its own spotlight.

Keep in mind that I'll be watching this one like a hawk.

Who is investigating "Hockey Canada" for any wrongdoing, cover-up, etc?

What is the distinction between "Hockey Canada", "Hockey Canada Foundation". and the "CHL" in regards to governance/oversight. As an America I don't understand the nuance and legal status of these entities in Canada.

Serious question, I understand that there is an investigation that will try to determine any guilt from the suspects; but who/what is looking at the organization?

If there is a cover-up that involved Hockey Canada; or an organization that was aware of past instances but maintained a culture to ignore these behaviors; with an obvious "fear" of how it would affect their performance on the ice then 100% there should be an IIHF suspension.

I find this whole thing disgusting; so it is hard to try to be rational and objective about where to place blame beyond the actual criminal actors.

i really dont see how they can recover from this. i'd expect complete turnover from the top staff

hopefully they handle it better than the blackhawks.

Read this excerpt from Jordin Tootoo’s book discussing Hockey Canada’s entry to the 2002-2003 World Junior Championship, which today had allegations of sexual assault brought forward. The gang sexual acts are right here: pic.twitter.com/5tQVp8xIYt

— Ian Kennedy (@IanKennedyCK) July 22, 2022

This quote from Jordan Tootoo’s book says it all imo

If we are banned from international hockey I will never watch an international hockey game again and it will be the end of Canadian hockey at a national team level. Punishing kids who are playing hockey right now for the actions of past and present adults is beyond disgusting and has no place even being mentioned as a possibility. Likewise we need a presumption of innocence until we have facts about what happened regarding former or current players. The bordering on slanderous comments from some people about these players is dangerous groupthink and hive mentality. It needs to be shut down

I’d really like to see him bankrupted in a lawsuit for what he spends his time doing, writing about people to try to ruin them by twisting and/or inventing “facts” just like he is doing here.

I would be lying if I said I was shocked it took us to six posts for someone to make this about themselves in a completely irrelevant context.

Removing Hockey Canada from international events has far less to do with punishing the kids of today and tomorrow than it does punishing a state-funded organization that's maintained at least a solid 15-year stretch of sexual abuse cover-ups. Firing and blacklisting officials and members of Hockey Canada is mere lip service. What inspires genuine change? When Sheldon Kennedy was abused and spoke up, we said never again. When Dan Carcillo was abused and spoke up, we said never again. When Akim Aliu was abused and spoke up, we said never again. When Kyle Beach was abused and spoke up, we said never again.

If the report of "at least one per year" is remotely accurate, then I believe it vile that your primary concern regarding this scandal is that Canada may not be represented in IIHF-sanctioned events and not that lives have likely been destroyed by the inhuman actions of boys that think themselves entitled to whatever they please and the subsequent slush-fund enabled cover-ups from the body that oversees hockey at the highest level in Canada. While a settlement is not a legal admission of guilt, you would expect such a prominent organization to at least contest a charge as libel if there truly was no fault. Context is king here. The moderation team here has done as much as they've can - often on no notice as the story unfolds - to minimize rampant speculation. There shall be no internet sleuths here.

I doubt the world nor the victims of these abuses are bothered at all if you abstain from watching international play should Hockey Canada find itself slapped with a ban. Hockey Canada should crumble and if the IIHF decided to ban Canada from any sanctioned events until that happens, I think the sport is a better place for it. These are unforgivable actions. It is morally bankrupt to allow an entity like Hockey Canada to continue existing in the wake of the pending investigations. The registration fees that my parents paid, you may have paid, your neighbours, your family, your friends, any Canadian has paid to put their children through this sport of ours has been silently enabling unspeakable acts of violence. At what point does human decency start to take precedence over the "sanctity" of the sport? At what point do the human beings on the receiving end of these atrocities start to matter more than a two-week tournament over the Christmas holidays?

Ok so ruining hockey in this country does what exactly? Does it make any alleged victim not a victim anymore? Does it change what happened? Please tell me why we punish innocent people more than those involved in cover ups? A kid playing hockey right now for Canada (male or female) SHOULD NOT be punished for whatever happened in 2018 or 2003. It’s utterly outrageous that people want to punish kids now and in the future for what? What is gained? Nothing in the past changes. The only thing that changes is now this country has ruined its national sport for god knows how long… a decade or decades??

Canadians sure do love to self deprecate. We seem to love to loathe. We’ve always been a kind people who like to apologize, but what has happened in the last 20 or so years to this country is beyond my 61 years of comprehension. Your entire thought process does not help a single victim. It only makes different kinds of victims. Punish the people who were involved in the past coverups. If criminal proceedings follow this then let’s go to court but this sick idea of punishing the innocent has to be stopped. And I know you don’t care if an old guy never watches Team Canada again and neither do all these “do gooders” in our media with your mentality about this, but I’m sick for the kids today and tomorrow who will probably pay a bigger price for the past than those who were involved.

Hockey Canada should really be gutted from top to bottom and restructured. This is an institutional problem and those in charge of the institution are not able to deal with it and have not dealt with it, so why should they keep their jobs.

EDIT: I'd also be fine with voiding the teams medal wins from 2018 and 2003 if it came to that. The NCAA does that all the time so there is a precedent, but that's a matter for the IIHF.

They can file charges against anyone involved in those coverups and I’ll join every single normal person in applaud them for doing it. Likewise, if evidence comes forward that can bring any current or past NHL player to court let’s see what happens then. I’m concerned about two things here: first and least important any slandering of players who were on those junior teams. If evidence emerges that player x did the things alleged let’s go to court. I absolutely hate seeing the “well he didn’t say something on his Twitter so he must be guilty” mentality of witch hunting. It’s sick and dangerous and it will erode away our entire justice system.

More importantly than that though is protecting present and future junior hockey players, boys and girls alike who people want to punish by banning Canada from international hockey. That takes this to a level of pure insanity. That is what I am by far the most concerned about coming out of this. I have no concern for the adults. The Hockey Canada higher ups who were paying out a slush fund from OUR fees can go rot in jail. IF players did the things they’re being accused of they too can rot in jail. DO NOT punish kids for adults breaking laws. It’s very simple

How does accountability ruin hockey in a country quite literally foaming-at-the-mouth mad for the sport?

A key component of this that you're either failing to recognize or electing to ignore is that unless Hockey Canada is stripped down to stud, even outright replaced, all the kind of lip service you desire does is play musical chairs with an institution with a bad ignoring consent habit. What assurances are there preventing "Hockey Canada 2.0" from becoming just as cruel, uncaring, and vile as its predecessor? A fundamental change has to occur and that change has to be grassroots. The entire framework of Hockey Canada has led us to this very moment. It is wholly rotten. Tip to tail.

I look to other, actually-serious-about-societal-change leagues, such as the NBA where entire teams will sit out games in response to injustices. Sports are the reward of a fully-functional society. The most effective means of forcing change as an athlete is the refusal to participate until that change is made. Their million-dollar contracts and sponsors enable this. Any decent Canadian child playing through the Hockey Canada system should be actively trying to abstain from any events until this scandal is fully resolved. Why would a member of one of our elite women's teams want to wear the banner of an organization that cares not if young men drunkenly assault them so long as they believe money makes the problem disappear? How could the parents of vulnerable children want their daughters and sons to play for such a morally-bankrupt organization?

You think you're making a point and that you have the best interests of others at heart. The exact opposite is in fact true. I look to your usage of the word groupthink (let me guess, liberal groupthink, yeah?) or how you insist kids missing out on a few international tournaments are the true victims in this case. Have you no genuine empathy for the victims of these sexual assaults or are you so firmly entrenched as a product of your time that you cannot see this as anything other than "boys will be boys"? Human decency never needs to be politicized. I truly fail to see why you've attempted to do so here.

Canada, the children you so very much fret about, and the sport are truly better off with a complete reevaluation of what kind of organization should oversee our beloved sport. If it takes one year, ten years, or twenty. People will always matter more than a game. Shame on you for ignoring that.

Wow. People should sabotage themselves for “change” is your basic thesis here. I have no desire to debate politics with you or anyone. You’ve made your politics incredibly clear. Mine are the opposite of yours so let’s leave that there. I also have no problem with nuking Hockey Canada and replacing every current employee. We

Here’s where I’m taking issue with you:

“Have you no genuine empathy for the victims of these sexual assaults or are you so firmly entrenched as a product of your time that you cannot see this as anything other than "boys will be boys"?”

Let me tell you about the “product of time”, yes I’m from a different time, one where people were presumed to be innocent until a court of law found them guilty. This is one of the bedrocks of a society founded on constitutional law, monarchy or republic aside. This is as crucial to a democratic society as free speech is. I don’t know who you are other than some person on the internet but let me tell you about the times you’re living in, people are now destroyed in their private lives by ACCUSATIONS.

Accusation: a charge or claim that someone has done something illegal or wrong.

Victim- a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.

Now everyone today loves the sound of their voice and their opinion but the beauty of a language is that words having actual meanings free from our opinions. The people bringing forth these allegations are “alleged victims”. Those who have been accused are “alleged offenders”.

What scares the heck out of me is to see what you and most younger people (I’m not assuming your age other than doubting you’re my age) say… “the victims of these sexual assaults…”

Your lack of acknowledging that these are allegations and not facts is absolutely frightening. You have already made up your mind that 6 or 7 members of the 2018 Canadian junior team are rapists. That’s seems like a settled fact for you, which is absolutely mind boggling to me when we have absolutely no charges and no court proceedings at this point, yet you’ve skipped the indictment and trial and went straight to a verdict.

Why are you going to a guilty verdict on these players without as much as an indictment? Does that not make you wonder why you’re so comfortable jumping to this conclusion? Do you do this with criminal accusations? Or is it just high profile sexual assault accusations? I’m trying to understand this because our entire justice system is based off the opposite thinking.

Except we're completely past the point of allegations regarding the 2018 case: Hockey Canada pushed a settlement in an uncharacteristically expedited fashion as soon as Rick Westhead came knocking with questions. I fully recognize that a settlement is not an admission of guilt, but I've already posed this question to you, and much like your regard for human welfare in this scandal you've ultimately decided to ignore it:



Feigned ignorance is not a good enough excuse to not read between the lines. The fact that this has been reopened to the criminal justice system and not simply a civil case is equally as telling. There must be more than simply a set of accusations to get us to this point. Where are the denials from those six of seven? No cookie-cutter statements combed over by a legal team to appease the masses can be found from those men. Where is Hockey Canada with a libel case? Something is amiss and I do not need to be spoon-fed the answers by the legal system to recognize that. At least one of those men are guilty. It's the only way the calculus checks out.

What I find ultimately dismal from people of your generation is a complete unwillingness to believe those who do speak out. In every instance we have borne witness to over the past half-decade I have heard ad nauseum to wait for a guilty verdict. Our elders will trip over themselves to ensure every one of these abusers and predators are heard out to the fullest extent of the law before they give an actual victim of sexual assault the time of day. It's cowardly. Absolutely false accusations do occur but they are so far and infrequent from the ones that actually happened. So many of these cases go unreported because of the mindset you share with so many others. This needs to change. This is part of the purpose of these conversations. Why leap at the opportunity to defend a potential assailant yet ignore those who may have been victimized?

Because the way you think is the basis of every totalitarian regime, that presumption of innocence is to be thrown out the window. Why should we even bother having a legal system? The accused are guilty and the accuser is a victim. Anyone who fights for the presumption of innocence is a bad guy.

You will see a less democratic country in your lifetime, one where authoritarianism is not only tolerated but welcomed all because of this witch hunt thinking.

And I’ll tell you this, a civil suit is an entirely different ballgame. I have been sued and sued other people before. On one occasion I paid out a settlement to make a pain in my neck go away because he wasn’t worth my time to fight in court forever. People will settle out of court or even lose a civil case on a whole different set of facts than you see in a criminal case with a considerably lower burden of proof.

An accuser could sue for emotional distress and win a settlement yet never even see their case brought to a criminal proceeding. Hockey Canada will be bankrupt after this (and they should be) and whatever comes after them will have a lot cleaning up to do.

Here’s my fun question for you, do you think the entire Chicago Blackhawks organization should be banned from the NHL?

It’s unfortunate 1 bad Apple had to ruin this post but I ask you to please remove this from the forum @BeterChiarelli I appreciate you chiming in and I side to your point of view. Was hoping to have a more positive dialogue to this. Getting way off the point now.

Don’t need other people having to read this.


My two cents. Two massive thumbs up to Rick Westhead and Katie Strang who continue to do incredible work. Those in charge have always known about it, and did nothing. This is a systemic problem that has gone on too long in hockey culture. Major changes need to be made and Hockey Canada needs to be held accountable, banning them from future events is a must. It makes me sick to my stomach that this has gone on. I am ashamed and can’t possibly see myself cheering for any team Canada right now. Especially with the Juniors less than a month away.

I will wholly admit to being very objective regarding my opinion of this case and others like it. I consider myself a man of science and I've learned that with enough information one can reasonably intuit explanations or outcomes ahead of their actual confirmations. So when I see a mountain of just cause to look at these six or seven young men as abusers and a whole lot of nothing to suggest otherwise, you'll have to forgive me for being able to deduce that this case is going to result in actual consequences for the 2018 team.

Yes, I think that as part of trying to cover up their scandal the Blackhawks should not be participating in the NHL. I don't give a damn about their history. That entire organization was complicit and it led to an actual minor getting assaulted. You want to talk legacy? They're now and forever the team that was willing to cover up sexual abuse to win a game. Congratulations. What an honour.

Here's a fun question for you: if you believe Hockey Canada should go bankrupt, how does that not "impact the future" of these poor, poor young boys and girls and their ability to compete on the global stage? Here's your hint: you've been disingenuous this entire time and you do not care about any of the social consequences of this scandal. You're simply pissed off that the WJC's might get cancelled for the foreseeable future. Either that or you just outright hate women and/or anyone else that speaks up against sexual abuse.

But to equate rational thought to the onset of the modern dissolution of democracy? You're less than two decades removed from the oppression and evil of an actual totalitarian regime and yet you sit here trying to convince me that having a capacity for rational thought - and using that same rationality to make my own conclusions - is about the same as goose-stepping down Saint Laurent Boulevard? You're bordering on irredeemable now.

Have a great night.

there are no bad apples here. no one is condoning the alleged behavior of these players. its just a difference of opinion on how to handle the situation going forward. but you're right this thread is going to get way off topic.

I didn’t intend to make it off topic. I can say though that unless everyone agrees with the premise that is acceptable a difference of opinion isn’t tolerated. I’m use to it because it’s far from the first time my view on a controversial subject have been deemed “unacceptable”. This should be a place to discuss this without telling people they’re some sort of bad guy for disagreeing with them

oh im not saying you or anyone else made it off topic, i just think this thread is naturally going to evolve into a political discussion and branch out from there.

You’re right because it’s tough to discuss this without politics coming up because of how differently liberals view these controversies from conservatives

Does Hockey Canada have a version of US SafeSport?

The way we structure international hockey needs to resemble the way we structure the NHL. Rebranding Hockey Canada with a different name will certainly happen and a cleaning of the house will happen but the idea of having registration fees needs to be done away with for good. It should be funded the way a professional league is funded through corporate sponsorships. Team Canada is a major money maker so let’s see the money made through the marketplace. No one then can say their registration fee was used for anything inappropriate or illegal in the future. Banning Canada from international hockey is a stupid idea. This isn’t some uniquely Canadian problem. We are just a country that likes to come clean with this kind of stuff and air out dirty laundry. I can promise you this stuff has happened in other junior hockey events around the world and other countries have also gone into coverup mode. If banning the teams was a solution we would t have international hockey.

As part of its action plan, Hockey Canada says it will implement a tracking and reporting system for complaints of abuse, harassment etc and that those results will be publicly published annually “to hold Hockey Canada accountable.” https://t.co/WzuXG35yqp

— Katie Strang (@KatieJStrang) July 25, 2022

I am still shocked no one has lost their job yet

I guess they want to wait for the lawsuits to end before firing anyone? I’d still overhaul the management of Hockey Canada, it’s clear it needs it