Every NHL Fanbase: Shoots down leafs homers trade proposal.

Leafs Fans: Spam the entire website with the rejected proposal

Ottawa is trying to save cap. This does nothing

Brown with retention is worth a 1st. Murray with retention shouldn’t cost a 1st to dump. At best Ottawa taking Holl’s contract is doing you a favor.

Those three things combined doesn’t leave you with a deal that helps Ottawa. Pass.

Brown to the Leafs makes no sense unless their is retention I guess, but why would OTT ever trade and retain on him instead of trading him elsewhere for assets/replacement.

Ottawa wouldn’t add Brown onto this, likely a pick or two.
That Arizona trade sucks for us lol
Don’t hate that Seattle trade if there’s more retained salary. Oleksiak is barely 3.6 mil, but if it was taken down to a number starting with a 2 that’s more interesting

Murray retention could cost a first, but if they are retaining 50% it's just not worth it for them to give an actual first or a roster player like Brown who they can trade elsewhere. Holl's contract isn't bad value so not really a favor, there is interest for him just like Brown. Not sure why the Leafs would want Brown as a rental though even at 1.8m. There's going to be other guys available in free agency that they can potentially target, so if this trade happens before FA doubt they take Brown or that OTT would want to give him with r50% retention on him and Murray.

It's unrealistic to just assume teams are going to help the Leafs by retaining cap on guys with multi-year deals especially if they aren't overpaid.

Murray, is probably going to come in at a 2m retention at most 2.5m which is how much he would cost in the 3rd and 4th years post buyout, and perhaps their's going to be a sweetner of a good prospect (don't see OTT giving up picks) and maybe Holl going the other way. Or it's a bigger trade with perhaps Muzzin/Sandin involved.

Regarding who? Murray? If you’re talking about Murray, then he costs far more for Ottawa to dump. Even with some retained salary, the rumoured cost was going to be 7th overall and dropping down to 16th.

If you’re talking about Oleksiak, I’m saying that if they want a return of that size they better retain salary because that contract isn’t very appealing. We have Muzzin already who has 2 years less, makes 1 mil more; and is a lot better (when healthy), and that contract is rough as is. Don’t want Oleksiak and his full 4.6x4 at all

I agree that Holl isn’t negative value but I also don’t think he’s positive value for Ottawa. So I do think taking the contract off Toronto’s hands is something that benefits the Leafs more than the Sens.

I do think that Toronto could prioritize bringing Brown back tho, I agree that free agency would probably be ideal considering that it would cost anything to bring someone in but on the other hand you’re not going to get anyone in free agency to score at a 50 point pace and be your leading pker for under 2m.

Murray could cost a 1st to dump, I just don’t think it would be Ottawa’s 1st! We’ll see what happens here over the next couple days with talks seemingly heating up.

Also I’d like to say that was one of the more sensible replies I’ve gotten on this site and I’ve been here a while, cheers.

I'm talking about Oleksiak, there is no reason to trade him for those guys even though they are promising prospects, they still aren't A-level assets, plus they aren't getting an NHL ready replacement. So, it will cost them 4m+retained cap to replace him, so the trade isn't enough of an overpay for them to do that.

Kerfoot and Brown are too similar though, so unless they are sending Kerfoot the other way, getting Brown and Murray retained 50%, I don't see how that makes sense for the Leafs. Kerfoot for Brown+Murray at 50%, doesn't make sense for OTT though. If they are giving up Brown, they probably at least want Engvall back (a cost controlled replacement) and they wouldn't do 50% on Murray.

Engvall for Brown at 50% and Murray at 40% (3.75m) would be reasonable for OTT, not that great for Tor but perhaps a trade off they would be willing to accept if they can then flip Kerfoot for a cost controlled replacement of Engvall+assets.

And no worries, I try to look at trades in a realistic light for both teams considering their wants and needs and who might have the leverage in the deal but also is it worth it for the other team to concede on the trade.

Look Murray isn’t gonna cost more to dump then Andrew Ladd did so y’all can stop pretending that Ottawa will retain 50% and give up a first to move him lmao.

Yep, that's essentially trying to have the cake and eat it too.

Maybe I’m a little biased against Engvall but I really don’t see too much there. I actually don’t mind Kerfoot (at full cost) for Brown at 50% and Murray with some sort of retention (through a 3rd team like Arizona). Maybe Ottawa even flips Kerfoot to AZ in that type of scenario to cover the cost of retention? Just spitballing but I think you might be on to something.

If Ottawa retains 50% the leafs would have to move an asset imo. Honestly the only way I see a Murray deal happening is if it is a one for one deal for Muzzin.

Anyways, Murray at 3.75m will be Mrazek 2.0 probably. So, hopefully for the Leafs Kallgren/Woll can actually become the starter or they sign Comrie or someone as a contingency plan for cheap in FA. They probably need to have cap space open as well, in case they need to trade for a real starter at some point.

Thing about Engvall is that he would come in under that 1.8m and they can probably kill penalties, he's fast and he can kill penalties (had 2 SHGs last season), and it seemed that he started to find a scoring touch at the end of last season. So, even if he can't match the points of Brown, with DeBrincat on the team now, the more important part to replace is his defensive/PKing aspect, and Engvall at least does the PKing part.

I think Muzzin could be involved especially if Leafs want 50%, but I don't think it would be 1 for 1, since that would be like adding a Muzzin at 8.725m, they would need Engvall and other cost controlled players that they can use as well, but also it probably won't happen without a 3rd team retaining a good chunk of Murray's cap.

Muzzin to OTT does make sense though for him perhaps if the Leafs ask him to waive in order to keep Sandin

Could also see Sandin going to them OTT, and Leafs getting back Brannstrom+Murray (with murray being retained partially by OTT and also another team to get him under 3m or at 3m)

I don’t see a world where Muzzin for Murray involves any retention on Ottawa’s part

It makes sense for Toronto to want to move him there, but does Ottawa want to add Muzzin when they have Chabot, Sanderson, and Brannstrom? That’s not including Nick Holden who is a more affordable 3rd pair lefty anyway.

Murray has the bigger hit and he's the bigger risk, most of Muzzin's risk comes with him being injury prone potentially (which Murray is).

Really depends on if they are comfortable with Brannstrom playing on the right side or not. I'm sure they would want to move out Zaitsev first if they were taking on Muzzin, so I don't see that as the move for OTT at this time.

Toronto might just hope the Sandin thing blows over and not do anything about it. If Toronto, is asking for a sweetner from OTT it's going to be Zub and they would offer Holl in return, and I know Dorion would hate to move Zub and would probably just ask for Sandin (over Holl) or completely shoot it down. Let's see how this shakes out. I don't think it would be favorable for the Leafs if Murray isn't lights out.

I don’t think the senators consider your proposal to be honest

Muzzin is injury prone tho. He’s an aging defenseman and Ottawa doesn’t need another lefty.