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(NYR/COL) - Georgiev for 2x 3rd, 1x 5th

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7 juill. 2022 à 14 h 55
#51
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Quoting: Anus_McLeod
As an Avs guy but not a goalie guy, please help me feel better about a Frankie/George tandem.


Quoting: PenisMcNab
Uhhhh, theres not a lot to make you feel better about, This is a questionable move.


Georgiev is a good goalie. He was exceptional when him and Shesterkin went back and forth, and even better when he was allotted multiple games in a row. Once he was missing 2-3-4 games in a row to Shesterkin he would get cold. He still played great and with an All star Defensive Core and Offensive Fire Power, I think it will be easy for him to get hot and stay hot. And who knows, maybe it helps Frankie push himself to be the dominant 1A.
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7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 1
#52
Pete
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Where do you go Darcy darling ? unsure
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 4
#53
Jumbo Joe
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Quoting: Ritzy
I guess this means Kuemper is going elsewhere?


What if he goes to Toronto?
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 7
#54
Jumbo Joe
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Quoting: Jco5ta5
Colorado now has only 4 TOTAL draft picks in the first 5 rounds IN THE NEXT 3 YEARS!!!!!


WHAT
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 16
#55
Leafs Sufferer
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Quoting: Ryan_the_Awesome_Hockey_Fan
What if he goes to Toronto?


Depends on the price tag. If he's looking for more than 5M (which he realistically should be trying for), I'm not sure TOR can make it happen.
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 19
#56
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Quoting: justaBoss
Fine, risky is a bad word, but any team that doesn't run with two 2Gs is at better position.

This goalie tandem ranks like 25-30th best in the league imo.


Ranking tandems vs "workhorses" is an apple an orange comparison. Teams either put all their eggs (and money) in one basket and ride that goalie to the promised land hoping they stay healthy: Vasilevsky, Shesterkin (going forward), Saros, Markstrom, Hellebuyck, Demko, Gibson; or they get a 1A/1B tandem to hedge against injuries.

The Avs have been snake bit with Goalie injuries (especially come playoff time) over the last few seasons so there is no way that Joe Sakic is ever going to choose the first option. He is going to spread his goalie money around between 2 to 3 guys. With the team defense he doesn't need a top 5 goalie to win either.

So, ranking actual tandems (with their Cap hit):
Sorokin-Varlamov $9,000,000
Anderson-Ranta $6,500,000
Bobrovsky-Knight $10,925,000
Quick-Peterson $10,800,000
Swayman-Ullmark $5,925,000
---> Francouz-Georgiev $4,500,000 (estimating Georgiev's RFA at $2.5 AAV).
Samsonov-Vanecek $tbd (both RFA)
Grubauer-Driedger $9,400,000
Forsberg-Murray $9,000,000
Reimer-Hill-Kahkonen $4,425,000 + (Kahkonen RFA)

All of the top "workhorse" goalies certainly rank higher from talent perspective (Vasy, Shesterkin, Saros, down to Demko, Jarry, Oettinger, Gibson, Lehner). I would put the "Avs duo" right behind:
St. Louis - Binnington - losing Husso and Lindgren; bringing in prospect Hofer or signing a new #2 like Comrie or Lankinen?

I'd rather have the Francouz-Georgiev tandem rather than an inconsistent or injury-prone starter and nothing behind them:
Minnesota - Talbot; probably losing Fleury as "tandem"; not much out there and Wallstedt is probably not ready for NHL.
Columbus - Merzlikins
Detroit - Nedeljkovic
Phoenix - Vejmelka
Edmonton - Smith until they actually do anything
Philadelphia - Hart
Toronto - Mrazek until they actually do anything
Montreal - Price possibly coming back with Allen-Montembault
Chicago - do they have anyone even signed?
Buffalo - Anderson is probably a backup but no starter yet

So that means 4 tandem teams below them and 10 "workhorse" teams below them at this time. So that puts them 18th overall; with 2 of those teams likely to sign Campbell/Kuemper and jump the rankings over the Avs; dropping them to 20th. Husso and Fleury might not move the needle as much but it depends on where they land and the rest of the goalie carousel.

But our actual $ spent to be 20th gives us the ability to invest more in the skaters to continue to dominate the zones and not need goaltending better than 20th overall. Whether it's Georgiev or Francouz we can win with them. Any of the #1 workhorse teams that lose their netminder to injury drop off a cliff (as we saw from the Predators); Joe wants to insure that he minimizes that risk.
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7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 22
#57
Jumbo Joe
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Quoting: Ritzy
Depends on the price tag. If he's looking for more than 5M (which he realistically should be trying for), I'm not sure TOR can make it happen.


makes sense
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 25
#58
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Avs should trade Kuemper to Toronto for Mikheyev straight up. Both teams then have 6 days to negotiate extensions for teams they might fit with.
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 30
#59
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
Ranking tandems vs "workhorses" is an apple an orange comparison. Teams either put all their eggs (and money) in one basket and ride that goalie to the promised land hoping they stay healthy: Vasilevsky, Shesterkin (going forward), Saros, Markstrom, Hellebuyck, Demko, Gibson; or they get a 1A/1B tandem to hedge against injuries.

The Avs have been snake bit with Goalie injuries (especially come playoff time) over the last few seasons so there is no way that Joe Sakic is ever going to choose the first option. He is going to spread his goalie money around between 2 to 3 guys. With the team defense he doesn't need a top 5 goalie to win either.

So, ranking actual tandems (with their Cap hit):
Sorokin-Varlamov $9,000,000
Anderson-Ranta $6,500,000
Bobrovsky-Knight $10,925,000
Quick-Peterson $10,800,000
Swayman-Ullmark $5,925,000
---> Francouz-Georgiev $4,500,000 (estimating Georgiev's RFA at $2.5 AAV).
Samsonov-Vanecek $tbd (both RFA)
Grubauer-Driedger $9,400,000
Forsberg-Murray $9,000,000
Reimer-Hill-Kahkonen $4,425,000 + (Kahkonen RFA)

All of the top "workhorse" goalies certainly rank higher from talent perspective (Vasy, Shesterkin, Saros, down to Demko, Jarry, Oettinger, Gibson, Lehner). I would put the "Avs duo" right behind:
St. Louis - Binnington - losing Husso and Lindgren; bringing in prospect Hofer or signing a new #2 like Comrie or Lankinen?

I'd rather have the Francouz-Georgiev tandem rather than an inconsistent or injury-prone starter and nothing behind them:
Minnesota - Talbot; probably losing Fleury as "tandem"; not much out there and Wallstedt is probably not ready for NHL.
Columbus - Merzlikins
Detroit - Nedeljkovic
Phoenix - Vejmelka
Edmonton - Smith until they actually do anything
Philadelphia - Hart
Toronto - Mrazek until they actually do anything
Montreal - Price possibly coming back with Allen-Montembault
Chicago - do they have anyone even signed?
Buffalo - Anderson is probably a backup but no starter yet

So that means 4 tandem teams below them and 10 "workhorse" teams below them at this time. So that puts them 18th overall; with 2 of those teams likely to sign Campbell/Kuemper and jump the rankings over the Avs; dropping them to 20th. Husso and Fleury might not move the needle as much but it depends on where they land and the rest of the goalie carousel.

But our actual $ spent to be 20th gives us the ability to invest more in the skaters to continue to dominate the zones and not need goaltending better than 20th overall. Whether it's Georgiev or Francouz we can win with them. Any of the #1 workhorse teams that lose their netminder to injury drop off a cliff (as we saw from the Predators); Joe wants to insure that he minimizes that risk.


I can see you've put some thought into this. Also, to answer your question, no. The Hawks have literally zero goalies. lol. The GM said within the next 1-2 days it'll become clearer. So I'm anticipating a draft day trade that includes a goalie.
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 36
#60
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Quoting: Civil_Eng_PE
Who hates draft picks more, the LA rams or Avs??


the flames sadly... frown
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7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 37
#61
Cool
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Quoting: CapFriendly

Francouz and georgiev will not win a Stanley cup. Also, if Colorado signs Kuemper, that means that this is a horrible trade Colorado
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 38
#62
mokumboi
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I fully approve of this move for the Avs, especially on a day they're seemingly letting Kuemper walk. This is seemingly a major problem in the making for them. Imagine all the losing early 22/23 prop bets that have already burnt money for people. tears of joy
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 39
#63
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Quoting: PenisMcNab
Uhhhh, theres not a lot to make you feel better about, This is a questionable move.


And "questionable" is being rather polite.
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 40
#64
mokumboi
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Quoting: Bestgoalie33
Georgiev is a good goalie. He was exceptional when him and Shesterkin went back and forth, and even better when he was allotted multiple games in a row. Once he was missing 2-3-4 games in a row to Shesterkin he would get cold. He still played great and with an All star Defensive Core and Offensive Fire Power, I think it will be easy for him to get hot and stay hot. And who knows, maybe it helps Frankie push himself to be the dominant 1A.



Hmm. By what conceivable metric did he play great last season?
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 44
#65
Evans truther
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Quoting: Bestgoalie33
As an Avs guy and a Goalie Guy, I love this pick up! yes it may mean Kuemps isn't coming back, but Sakic traded a 1st for a cup, I am ok with that.

In a vacuum yes it's a first for Kuemper/a cup but the additions at the deadline really made the difference there, Kuemper alone wouldn't have won it. More like a bunch of picks/prospects for a cup.
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 46
#66
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Quoting: mokumboi
Hmm. By what conceivable metric did he play great last season?


Think the references out there about Georgiev was a 4 game stretch in early January when Shesterkin was out. Georgiev had 3 out of 4 games with better than .920 save %.
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 50
#67
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
Think the references out there about Georgiev was a 4 game stretch in early January when Shesterkin was out. Georgiev had 3 out of 4 games with better than .920 save %.


Okay, but that's two weeks. I'm talking about the whole season. One doesn't pick out their best four game stretch and apply that review to the whole season.
7 juill. 2022 à 15 h 59
#68
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Quoting: mokumboi
Okay, but that's two weeks. I'm talking about the whole season. One doesn't pick out their best four game stretch and apply that review to the whole season.


Totally agree. Some writer picked up a story about Georgiev being good when he "gets regular playing time" referencing that stretch so it has become bigger than it should be.

One never knows about Goalies. Look at Jarry and DeSmith in Pittsburg. 2 years ago neither one of them looked confident in the tandem and didn't perform well; then this year the Penguins gave Jarry the net with full confidence and he ran with it.
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7 juill. 2022 à 16 h 7
#69
mokumboi
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
Totally agree. Some writer picked up a story about Georgiev being good when he "gets regular playing time" referencing that stretch so it has become bigger than it should be.

One never knows about Goalies. Look at Jarry and DeSmith in Pittsburg. 2 years ago neither one of them looked confident in the tandem and didn't perform well; then this year the Penguins gave Jarry the net with full confidence and he ran with it.


I really liked Georgiev when he broke in. And while he didn't really improve the next couple seasons, he was solid enough. But put it all together and he has progressively gotten worse each season for five seasons now. It's not a good trend.
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7 juill. 2022 à 16 h 10
#70
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Colorado gave up alot for a chance at signing him. That's alot to give up for a golaie who is average at best.
7 juill. 2022 à 16 h 20
#71
Let's go Pens!
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Oh my God, Sakic. What did you do here? You're helping a rival for the cup. WHY??? Georgiev deserves a 3rd OR a 2nd, at most. The rivals are even happier, cause that probably means that Kuemper will leave the champs and he's available in FA.
7 juill. 2022 à 16 h 23
#72
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If georgiev gets this return just imagine what Kahkonen or Hill could get, both better goalies and without the attitude issues.
7 juill. 2022 à 16 h 47
#73
Banni
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Quoting: aadoyle
Jim Benning


It's not that he dislikes or is allergic to draft picks, he just prematurely made win now moves, there is a difference
7 juill. 2022 à 17 h 25
#74
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I’m sorry Avs but Georgiev isn’t worth 2 3rds and a 5th, especially if it means Kuemper’s gone
7 juill. 2022 à 17 h 26
#75
No regretzkys
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Rangers win the deal for sure, but it could still work out for the Avs.
Georgiev/Francouz has some upside especially with the team playing in front of them.

This also saves a ton of cap space to sign Burakovsky/Kadri/Nichushchin
 
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