Forums/Armchair-GM

Statement to Wild Fans

Créé par: JustanIdea
Date de création initiale: 29 juin 2022
Publié: 29 juin 2022
Équipe: 2022-23 Sénateurs d'Ottawa
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      Congrats on the return for Fiala. It isn't bad but it's way off from what you were saying.

      Thinking specifically about the return I think that thte 7th OA pick would have been enough to make the team bite but I don't think Dorian offered it because 7th OA is about the same value as what the Sens had in the 7th OA pick.


      I also wonder if they had a deal going to Ottawa but Fiala wouldn't sign long-term there which forced the Wild to look elsewhere.
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      29 juin à 21 h 24
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      I’m not sure it’s that far off tho. We don’t know if they offered 7 OA, I’m sure it was discussed. A mid 1st and a sure thing prospect is pretty in line with what was asked. OTT doesn’t have many of those prospects that they’d move.

      I think when push came to shove, OTT wasn’t ready to push the chips in and wanted to see who was available before they sent the pick.
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      29 juin à 21 h 26
      #2
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      Quoting: jnowariak
      I’m not sure it’s that far off tho. We don’t know if they offered 7 OA, I’m sure it was discussed. A mid 1st and a sure thing prospect is pretty in line with what was asked. OTT doesn’t have many of those prospects that they’d move.

      I think when push came to shove, OTT wasn’t ready to push the chips in and wanted to see who was available before they sent the pick.


      Or budget restrictions might not have made sense to get Fiala and/or FIala wasn't interested in signing long-term with the Sens which screwed up the deal.

      Jarventie is also pretty close to a sure thing prospect as well.
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      29 juin à 21 h 31
      #3
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      Quoting: JustanIdea
      Or budget restrictions might not have made sense to get Fiala and/or FIala wasn't interested in signing long-term with the Sens which screwed up the deal.

      Jarventie is also pretty close to a sure thing prospect as well.


      Definitely a factor to consider as well. As for Jarventie, I would have rather had the TBL 2nd. He’s a fine prospect but he’s still 2-3 years away from really drawing an opinion on IMO, could easily turn into something tho.
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      29 juin à 21 h 31
      #4
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      “Way off”

      Lol there were plenty of reasonable Wild fans proposing or discussing returns very similar to 19th + Faber. Id even argue that 19th OA + Grans was probably one of the most popular frameworks on this site.

      But yeah, always nice to hear some veiled condescension from a 3rd party, so cheers bud.
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      29 juin à 21 h 44
      #5
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      According to Russo's article on the trade return.

      Blake was the first GM to call Guerin today. And while the other teams had shown interest they hadn't made any offers to date. So when Blake called today and gave Guerin what he considered a *fair* offer. He delt him. No other actual bidding took place.

      One could certainly argue that Guerin should have at least seen if one of Dorion, Fitzgerald, or Lou was willing to make their own offers and see if he couldn't drive up the price. But he has long said he's not looking to fleece someone and simply wants what he feels is fair value for his players. 🤷‍♂️
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      29 juin à 22 h 3
      #6
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      I thought the Wild got the most they would have received from any team. A pick and prospect but more important cap space.
      Why I think the Sens weren't really in the bidding. They can spend 7,75m on a UFA (not necessarily this year) instead of Fiala and keep their 7th overall pick or top prospects (whatever the selling price was)
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      29 juin à 22 h 4
      #7
      MNBassman
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      My assessment of Faber is: his ceiling is an nhl average top pairing rhd, and his floor is nhl average 2nd paring rhd.
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      29 juin à 22 h 31
      #8
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      Quoting: MNBassman
      My assessment of Faber is: his ceiling is an nhl average top pairing rhd, and his floor is nhl average 2nd paring rhd.


      Agreed. He’s very good defensively. If he can get the offense going, he’s a top pair RHD. That’s very valuable. I like our deal a lot.
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      29 juin à 22 h 34
      #9
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      Quoting: RazWild
      According to Russo's article on the trade return.

      Blake was the first GM to call Guerin today. And while the other teams had shown interest they hadn't made any offers to date. So when Blake called today and gave Guerin what he considered a *fair* offer. He delt him. No other actual bidding took place.

      One could certainly argue that Guerin should have at least seen if one of Dorion, Fitzgerald, or Lou was willing to make their own offers and see if he couldn't drive up the price. But he has long said he's not looking to fleece someone and simply wants what he feels is fair value for his players. 🤷‍♂️


      Russo kind of mentioned on KfAN that there was risk in waiting for the draft. With the other scorers on the market LAK could’ve turned their attention elsewhere. And supposedly BG and our scouts love Faber, they wanted him in the deal. I think BG maybe could’ve gotten more by waiting for the draft but he also potentially could have gotten less when the musical chairs ended.

      This also signals the end of Dumba in MN. I just wonder if they trade him now or at the deadline? Feels like a waste to let him walk via FA for nothing.
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      29 juin à 22 h 36
      #10
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      Quoting: palhal
      I thought the Wild got the most they would have received from any team. A pick and prospect but more important cap space.
      Why I think the Sens weren't really in the bidding. They can spend 7,75m on a UFA (not necessarily this year) instead of Fiala and keep their 7th overall pick or top prospects (whatever the selling price was)


      One thing I’ve found about BG is that he loves certainty. I think if you got to draft day you would be looking at another decent piece, but waiting carried the risk of Boeser or Debrincat being shopped more aggressively. I reasonable price in terms of assets based on the risk, it was all about being the first mover.
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      29 juin à 22 h 36
      #11
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      Quoting: IcemanJoe
      Russo kind of mentioned on KfAN that there was risk in waiting for the draft. With the other scorers on the market LAK could’ve turned their attention elsewhere. And supposedly BG and our scouts love Faber, they wanted him in the deal. I think BG maybe could’ve gotten more by waiting for the draft but he also potentially could have gotten less when the musical chairs ended.

      This also signals the end of Dumba in MN. I just wonder if they trade him now or at the deadline? Feels like a waste to let him walk via FA for nothing.


      It signals an Addison move more than a Dumba move….
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      29 juin à 22 h 38
      #12
      LongtimeLeafsufferer
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      Quoting: jnowariak
      One thing I’ve found about BG is that he loves certainty. I think if you got to draft day you would be looking at another decent piece, but waiting carried the risk of Boeser or Debrincat being shopped more aggressively. I reasonable price in terms of assets based on the risk, it was all about being the first mover.


      Good points. Also with free agency coming soon, the Kings or any team could have spend Fiala money on a UFA and keep their picks/prospects. You're right about certainty.
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      29 juin à 22 h 39
      #13
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      Quoting: jnowariak
      It signals an Addison move more than a Dumba move….


      Not at all, couldn’t be further from the truth. Addison makes no money, Dumba makes 6 mil. Dumba is a goner. Just a matter of when.
      29 juin à 22 h 39
      #14
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      Quoting: jnowariak
      It signals an Addison move more than a Dumba move….


      No, if you team is in playoff contention and want to playoff run, you don't trade good players even if they are UFAs.
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      29 juin à 22 h 40
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      Quoting: palhal
      No, if you team is in playoff contention and want to playoff run, you don't trade good players even if they are UFAs.


      Right. I don’t see Dumba moving if they want to be competitive.
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      29 juin à 22 h 40
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      Quoting: palhal
      Good points. Also with free agency coming soon, the Kings or any team could have spend Fiala money on a UFA and keep their picks/prospects. You're right about certainty.


      And if you wait that long you’ve got the offer sheet risk as well.
      29 juin à 22 h 42
      #17
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      Quoting: IcemanJoe
      Russo kind of mentioned on KfAN that there was risk in waiting for the draft. With the other scorers on the market LAK could’ve turned their attention elsewhere. And supposedly BG and our scouts love Faber, they wanted him in the deal. I think BG maybe could’ve gotten more by waiting for the draft but he also potentially could have gotten less when the musical chairs ended.

      This also signals the end of Dumba in MN. I just wonder if they trade him now or at the deadline? Feels like a waste to let him walk via FA for nothing.


      Playoff teams don't trade good upcoming UFAs. For the players on the roster and the fans...you go for it in the playoffs with your strongest lineup.
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      29 juin à 22 h 42
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      Quoting: palhal
      No, if you team is in playoff contention and want to playoff run, you don't trade good players even if they are UFAs.


      These are Russo’s words here. He’s got a pretty good pulse on the team. He mentioned what I just said on Dumba. Sorry
      29 juin à 22 h 43
      #19
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      Quoting: palhal
      Playoff teams don't trade good upcoming UFAs. For the players on the roster and the fans...you go for it in the playoffs with your strongest lineup.


      This is Dumbas last year in MN.
      29 juin à 22 h 43
      #20
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      Quoting: palhal
      Playoff teams don't trade good upcoming UFAs. For the players on the roster and the fans...you go for it in the playoffs with your strongest lineup.


      They don’t mid season, but they do in the off-season. To reload.
      29 juin à 22 h 50
      #21
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      Quoting: IcemanJoe
      These are Russo’s words here. He’s got a pretty good pulse on the team. He mentioned what I just said on Dumba. Sorry


      I realize Russo said this. It the team really think Goose can handle top 4 minutes, god help us. And I don’t buy it with the way they handled Addison last year. Size or not, you don’t sit him to play Benn if you think he can play top 4 this year. Just no need to move Dumba unless you get something real for him.

      I’ve looked at the cap too. I understand what the team wants to bridge Boldy on. I also know what the comps for Dumba are, you don’t move him for scraps.
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      29 juin à 23 h 3
      #22
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      Quoting: jnowariak
      I realize Russo said this. It the team really think Goose can handle top 4 minutes, god help us. And I don’t buy it with the way they handled Addison last year. Size or not, you don’t sit him to play Benn if you think he can play top 4 this year. Just no need to move Dumba unless you get something real for him.

      I’ve looked at the cap too. I understand what the team wants to bridge Boldy on. I also know what the comps for Dumba are, you don’t move him for scraps.


      The reason for Benn over Addison has been hashed on here many times, it’s about size not skill, at least that’s the indication Russo, Lou Nanne, and others have said. Disagree with BG and Evason if you want, that’s fine, but don’t hold that against Addison. It’s not his fault that’s how the team thinks. I mean, Dumba has been available for 2+ years and no one had traded for him, so I don’t think his league value is what you think it is. So what you think his comps are, are likely way off. When we’re in cap hell for 3 years, I’d rather not lose players for nothing. Unless BG literally can’t get anything for him. Also moving him at the deadline to a contender limits the teams because of his cap hit. Smart play is to move him now for what you can. If you don’t want Addison, fine whatever, find a cheaper replacement for Dumba. We’re loaded with D prospects coming.
      29 juin à 23 h 10
      #23
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      Quoting: jnowariak
      I realize Russo said this. It the team really think Goose can handle top 4 minutes, god help us. And I don’t buy it with the way they handled Addison last year. Size or not, you don’t sit him to play Benn if you think he can play top 4 this year. Just no need to move Dumba unless you get something real for him.

      I’ve looked at the cap too. I understand what the team wants to bridge Boldy on. I also know what the comps for Dumba are, you don’t move him for scraps.


      And if we need to add at the deadline, we can make a move for a rental. We’ve got tons of picks and prospects.
      29 juin à 23 h 35
      #24
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      Quoting: jnowariak
      It signals an Addison move more than a Dumba move….


      I don't think it does.

      I've said this before, but I've slowly come to think that Guerin and company view Addison as Spurgeon's eventual replacement and not Dumba's. Especially given the fact the coaching staff has been fairly adamant that he change how he plays to be more like Spurgeon than Dumba.

      Having two potential top 4 RHD defenseman prospects lends credence to that theory. One for each of them.

      Furthermore, one is a offensive puck-moving defenseman, while the other is a Brodin like shutdown defensive defenseman. It actually makes sense to have and keep both going forward.
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      30 juin à 0 h 0
      #25
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      Quoting: RazWild
      I don't think it does.

      I've said this before, but I've slowly come to think that Guerin and company view Addison as Spurgeon's eventual replacement and not Dumba's. Especially given the fact the coaching staff has been fairly adamant that he change how he plays to be more like Spurgeon than Dumba.

      Having two potential top 4 RHD defenseman prospects lends credence to that theory. One for each of them.

      Furthermore, one is a offensive puck-moving defenseman, while the other is a Brodin like shutdown defensive defenseman. It actually makes sense to have and keep both going forward.


      No qualms with this, and I think you’re spot on. The problem discussing it is that Dumba is the next domino to go and the discussion hinges on Addison, which I don’t have a problem with if the goal is to build for the day when Addison is playing the Spurg role. But that’s in stark comparison to the competitiveness rhetoric we’ve heard.

      The way I see it is Dumba’s next contract starts with a 4, which is very enticing if you want to be competitive since he still provides huge impact when he’s on the ice. I think we’d be having a different conversation if his advocacy off the ice because it has very likely hurt his trade value as and he should get a decent prospect or pick coming back for him, which is why you need to hold him unless you get that.

      But I think what gets me the most is that he’s taken so much trash from a good chunk of the fan base for all of the wrong reasons. I think he’s a good defenseman. I think he was utilized poorly on the PP the last few years. I think his injuries have taken a toll. I also think that Addison and Faber will be great NHL players, but they aren’t yet. And man are we taking a lot of liberties when talking about being able to replace Dumba and not Fiala.

      Rant done.
       
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