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Building Around The MVP

Créé par: KingExLeafs
Équipe: 2022-23 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 21 juin 2022
Publié: 21 juin 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
21 800 000 $
21 800 000 $
12 250 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
44 000 000 $
32 500 000 $
43 500 000 $
21 500 000 $
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2865 000 $
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Transactions
1.
TOR
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (PIT)
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2024 (PIT)
PIT
  1. Muzzin, Jake
Détails additionnels:
Any team.
2.
TOR
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2022 (CAR)
  2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2022 (TBL)
3.
TOR
CHI
  1. Abruzzese, Nick
  2. Mrázek, Petr
  3. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (TOR)
4.
TOR
  1. Choix de 4e ronde en 2022 (CGY)
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2382 500 000 $80 972 283 $212 500 $0 $1 527 717 $
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950 000 $950 000 $
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11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
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6 962 366 $6 962 366 $
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UFA - 2
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1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
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UFA - 1
2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
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827 500 $827 500 $
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3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
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UFA - 3
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1 800 000 $1 800 000 $
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2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
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UFA - 2
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
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UFA - 2
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800 000 $800 000 $
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UFA - 2
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1 800 000 $1 800 000 $
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Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
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796 667 $796 667 $
AG, AD
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M-NTC
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21 juin 2022 à 23 h 24
#1
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Why exactly would MTL want this trade?
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 25
#2
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Quoting: Just_A_Guess
Why exactly would MTL want this trade?


If they decide not to move up, I'd guess they will trade some of their lower picks for NHLers, preferably cheap guys with expiring deals.
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 28
#3
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Quoting: KingExLeafs
If they decide not to move up, I'd guess they will trade some of their lower picks for NHLers, preferably cheap guys with expiring deals.


Okay, I suppose I can see your POV then
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 29
#4
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Kerfoot does not benefit Montreal. I don't even think you'd get a 3rd alone much less a 4th and 3rd. Holl in like most people's eyes is a dump. I don't think get anything more than a 6th if any thing at all. Especially with Seattle who wants to stack up on picks you'd have to probably pay them to take Holl. As far as Muzzin and with his injury history. I'm not sure anyone wants to take the risk. The defense is still rough. Husso is most likely going to Edmonton. I don't think Toronto can even change his mind whatsoever. It won't be that cheap of a price for 4 years or more either. 3 million for 3, but anything more AAV gets steeper.
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 32
#5
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Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
Kerfoot does not benefit Montreal. I don't even think you'd get a 3rd alone much less a 4th and 3rd. Holl in like most people's eyes is a dump. I don't think get anything more than a 6th if any thing at all. Especially with Seattle who wants to stack up on picks you'd have to probably pay them to take Holl. As far as Muzzin and with his injury history. I'm not sure anyone wants to take the risk. The defense is still rough. Husso is most likely going to Edmonton. I don't think Toronto can even change his mind whatsoever. It won't be that cheap of a price for 4 years or more either. 3 million for 3, but anything more AAV gets steeper.


Kerfoot and Holl have value. Each can be easily traded to any number of teams. They have low cap hits. And they fill needs that are critical on the ice (third line penalty killing center and right shot defense).
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 42
#6
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Quoting: KingExLeafs
Kerfoot and Holl have value. Each can be easily traded to any number of teams. They have low cap hits. And they fill needs that are critical on the ice (third line penalty killing center and right shot defense).


Name someone who would trade for Holl. Better yet tell me what team would pick him over some other defenseman on the market. Petry is available for trade, Klingberg Letang Subban Manson Schultz plus there are far better options on the market for trade that doesn't play nearly as bad as Holl has recently. Kerfoot has a negative value. No one will pay 3.5 Million to a 3rd Line Center who has a 18% WAR on the year. Sure he was ok on defense. You know who's on the market who could be a better fit 3 Line Forward Paul Stastny, Alexander Radulov, Matthias Janmark, Marcus Johansson, Danton Heinen, Ryan Dzingel, Sam Gagner, Derick Brassard I could keep going. I would imagine so many better players than Kerfoot. Essentially 3rd line PK player contract wise ideally would be even less than Sundqvist makes and he's at 2.75 Cap rate.
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 43
#7
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I'm fine with the trades, but most are probably overvalued.

Regarding the signings, I would not give more than a year to any of the following: Namestnkov, Comrie, Cogliano or Gagner. Handcuffs the team way too much going into signing years of Matthews, Marner, Nylander.
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 51
#8
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Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
Name someone who would trade for Holl. Better yet tell me what team would pick him over some other defenseman on the market. Petry is available for trade, Klingberg Letang Subban Manson Schultz plus there are far better options on the market for trade that doesn't play nearly as bad as Holl has recently. Kerfoot has a negative value. No one will pay 3.5 Million to a 3rd Line Center who has a 18% WAR on the year. Sure he was ok on defense. You know who's on the market who could be a better fit 3 Line Forward Paul Stastny, Alexander Radulov, Matthias Janmark, Marcus Johansson, Danton Heinen, Ryan Dzingel, Sam Gagner, Derick Brassard I could keep going. I would imagine so many better players than Kerfoot. Essentially 3rd line PK player contract wise ideally would be even less than Sundqvist makes and he's at 2.75 Cap rate.


There are 32 teams in the league. They all can't sign guys when free agency opens. Desperate teams will seek out trades to fill positions of need. Kerfoot and Holl will be attractive options on the fifth day of free agency.
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 52
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Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
Name someone who would trade for Holl. Better yet tell me what team would pick him over some other defenseman on the market. Petry is available for trade, Klingberg Letang Subban Manson Schultz plus there are far better options on the market for trade that doesn't play nearly as bad as Holl has recently. Kerfoot has a negative value. No one will pay 3.5 Million to a 3rd Line Center who has a 18% WAR on the year. Sure he was ok on defense. You know who's on the market who could be a better fit 3 Line Forward Paul Stastny, Alexander Radulov, Matthias Janmark, Marcus Johansson, Danton Heinen, Ryan Dzingel, Sam Gagner, Derick Brassard I could keep going. I would imagine so many better players than Kerfoot. Essentially 3rd line PK player contract wise ideally would be even less than Sundqvist makes and he's at 2.75 Cap rate.


i think most people would take kerfoot over all the player you listed. and they rightfully would. many of the players you named wont be even in the nhl next year. even point wise no one is even near him in your exemples... i have no clue what argument your trying to make.
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 53
#10
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I like the signings but I want Nick Paul. A line with Marchment-Kempf-Paul would be insane for a 3rd line so I wouldn't sign Engvall and that will create enough space I think as I see him getting around 3-3.5M
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 54
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Quoting: KingExLeafs
There are 32 teams in the league. They all can't sign guys when free agency opens. Desperate teams will seek out trades to fill positions of need. Kerfoot and Holl will be attractive options on the fifth day of free agency.


again with how they both performed, I'd be very surprised if they got anything more than late round picks. We both know that Holl as a 3rd pairing d-man at best won't get a 3rd round pick maybe a 5th or 6th a most if not paying to get rid of him. You said it yourself Kerfoot is a 3C no way he gets a third much less a 3rd and 4th. What you are banking on is a pipedream. 4th is most you'll get or even then you'd probably get less or he ends up in a package deal.
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 54
#12
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Quoting: KingExLeafs
There are 32 teams in the league. They all can't sign guys when free agency opens. Desperate teams will seek out trades to fill positions of need. Kerfoot and Holl will be attractive options on the fifth day of free agency.


Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
Name someone who would trade for Holl. Better yet tell me what team would pick him over some other defenseman on the market. Petry is available for trade, Klingberg Letang Subban Manson Schultz plus there are far better options on the market for trade that doesn't play nearly as bad as Holl has recently. Kerfoot has a negative value. No one will pay 3.5 Million to a 3rd Line Center who has a 18% WAR on the year. Sure he was ok on defense. You know who's on the market who could be a better fit 3 Line Forward Paul Stastny, Alexander Radulov, Matthias Janmark, Marcus Johansson, Danton Heinen, Ryan Dzingel, Sam Gagner, Derick Brassard I could keep going. I would imagine so many better players than Kerfoot. Essentially 3rd line PK player contract wise ideally would be even less than Sundqvist makes and he's at 2.75 Cap rate.


Look at what Nashville paid for Lauzon. A depth or a 6dman that can PK will always have some value. Ill take a 3rd or 2 4th's
21 juin 2022 à 23 h 56
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Quoting: SDSUFRATMAN
I like the signings but I want Nick Paul. A line with Marchment-Kempf-Paul would be insane for a 3rd line so I wouldn't sign Engvall and that will create enough space I think as I see him getting around 3-3.5M


Yea I want Nick Paul too. He's been great in the playoffs. Hopefully he comes home. But only if it is under 4 million.
22 juin 2022 à 0 h 7
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Quoting: drambui
i think most people would take kerfoot over all the player you listed. and they rightfully would. many of the players you named wont be even in the nhl next year. even point wise no one is even near him in your exemples... i have no clue what argument your trying to make.


using point stat as your thesis is horribly common and a bad take. He has a -9.1 CF% Rel and a -8.5 FF% Rel. It also helps to notice who his primary assists are to which if you hadn't notice this season he's been backing off of another player who did well. And when you isolate Kerfoot the numbers specify the same thing you want to use as a point of emphasis as being better. You can't compare an argument for a guy who has played higher minutes on another team, and players who were actually meant for defensive play, when the guy you want to say is better is riding the back of teammates and is only better than about 65% of PK players. Endorsing upon that his QoT (Quality of Teammate) is better than his QoC (Quality of Competition) Which means he didn't elevate his game only really was effective if his teammates were good. So when you move Kerfoot to a team like Montreal where he would NOT have those same quality of defense. You kind of start to see why Kerfoot fails and where he would fail. He's not a smart investment. When cap is spreading thin and you think you can pull good quality picks for a guy who is making more than what he is worth I start to question your judgement on the NHL Market overall. When you see someone like Radulov who's played in a higher role and will come cheaper than 3.5 Million, when Johansson was doing very well without leaning on his teammates both at Washington and Buffalo and he's going to be making less than 3.5 M to play a 3rd line role. Same with Heinen, same with Brassard who played less than 50 games btw if you want to bring up points. Sam Gagner is on the very edge of that and even then he's still a better PK player than Kerfoot with all things considered.
22 juin 2022 à 0 h 10
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Quoting: SDSUFRATMAN
Look at what Nashville paid for Lauzon. A depth or a 6dman that can PK will always have some value. Ill take a 3rd or 2 4th's


trade deadline will always pay more than in the offseason. You don't see people paying 1st round picks for crap defenseman like Chiarot at regular time. It's based on what the market offers and who's desperate on the market. LD was a hot commodity at deadline. I don't think you have that many teams willing to fight for a defenseman, and even if there are again, a bunch of other defenseman who aren't even free agents that would be better suited than Holl or Kerfoot.
22 juin 2022 à 0 h 18
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Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
using point stat as your thesis is horribly common and a bad take. He has a -9.1 CF% Rel and a -8.5 FF% Rel. It also helps to notice who his primary assists are to which if you hadn't notice this season he's been backing off of another player who did well. And when you isolate Kerfoot the numbers specify the same thing you want to use as a point of emphasis as being better. You can't compare an argument for a guy who has played higher minutes on another team, and players who were actually meant for defensive play, when the guy you want to say is better is riding the back of teammates and is only better than about 65% of PK players. Endorsing upon that his QoT (Quality of Teammate) is better than his QoC (Quality of Competition) Which means he didn't elevate his game only really was effective if his teammates were good. So when you move Kerfoot to a team like Montreal where he would NOT have those same quality of defense. You kind of start to see why Kerfoot fails and where he would fail. He's not a smart investment. When cap is spreading thin and you think you can pull good quality picks for a guy who is making more than what he is worth I start to question your judgement on the NHL Market overall. When you see someone like Radulov who's played in a higher role and will come cheaper than 3.5 Million, when Johansson was doing very well without leaning on his teammates both at Washington and Buffalo and he's going to be making less than 3.5 M to play a 3rd line role. Same with Heinen, same with Brassard who played less than 50 games btw if you want to bring up points. Sam Gagner is on the very edge of that and even then he's still a better PK player than Kerfoot with all things considered.


i dont think using point for thesis is a bad take when judging player's value. you can shoot me all the fancy stats you want, this is something GM will look at and value when judging a player. (not saying they dont use advanced stats at all). but really saying he is a cap dump is just ridiculous. you can tell how for how long you want how good a player like brassard was and for whataver random stats he was better than kerfoot but at the end of the day he was an healthy scratch during playoff for a reason. maybe 1 or 2 guys can be a better ''inverstment'' for role player and i get that depending on the contract they sign. but some of them are motsly fringe nhl players . and gagner is not on the edge of kerfoot's point by my standard too. and you know, saying another player can be a better investment is not gonna lower some other player trafe value.
22 juin 2022 à 0 h 20
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Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
trade deadline will always pay more than in the offseason. You don't see people paying 1st round picks for crap defenseman like Chiarot at regular time. It's based on what the market offers and who's desperate on the market. LD was a hot commodity at deadline. I don't think you have that many teams willing to fight for a defenseman, and even if there are again, a bunch of other defenseman who aren't even free agents that would be better suited than Holl or Kerfoot.


ristolainen. thats all i have to say.
22 juin 2022 à 0 h 59
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Quoting: drambui
i dont think using point for thesis is a bad take when judging player's value. you can shoot me all the fancy stats you want, this is something GM will look at and value when judging a player. (not saying they dont use advanced stats at all). but really saying he is a cap dump is just ridiculous. you can tell how for how long you want how good a player like brassard was and for whataver random stats he was better than kerfoot but at the end of the day he was an healthy scratch during playoff for a reason. maybe 1 or 2 guys can be a better ''inverstment'' for role player and i get that depending on the contract they sign. but some of them are motsly fringe nhl players . and gagner is not on the edge of kerfoot's point by my standard too. and you know, saying another player can be a better investment is not gonna lower some other player trafe value.


Holl is a cap dump in 90% of cases. Kerfoot isn't worth 2 middle picks in a deep draft that probably has more value prospects than what you get for 1 year of Kerfoot.
22 juin 2022 à 1 h 5
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Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
Holl is a cap dump in 90% of cases. Kerfoot isn't worth 2 middle picks in a deep draft that probably has more value prospects than what you get for 1 year of Kerfoot.


so do you have any argument about these opinions? you can repeat a 100 times it wont make it more true. how is holl a cap dump? look around the states of RD around the league and the contract that was handed to them. and can you say a dman with 1 year left with his stats getting paid 2mil is a cap dump?
22 juin 2022 à 1 h 5
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Quoting: drambui
ristolainen. thats all i have to say.


Ristolainen played Top Pairing minutes, and is Top 4 material. Holl is not even close he's basically a 6-7D. No one is paying that much for 6-7D. It's also not as big of a need in the world anymore. Last year it was. That's the difference. You gotta look at the market.
Quoting: drambui
i dont think using point for thesis is a bad take when judging player's value. you can shoot me all the fancy stats you want, this is something GM will look at and value when judging a player. (not saying they dont use advanced stats at all). but really saying he is a cap dump is just ridiculous. you can tell how for how long you want how good a player like brassard was and for whataver random stats he was better than kerfoot but at the end of the day he was an healthy scratch during playoff for a reason. maybe 1 or 2 guys can be a better ''inverstment'' for role player and i get that depending on the contract they sign. but some of them are motsly fringe nhl players . and gagner is not on the edge of kerfoot's point by my standard too. and you know, saying another player can be a better investment is not gonna lower some other player trafe value.


and to your point on standard points like I said Kerfoot was a line mate merchant. He got most of his assists by plays he did not create at. Montreal does not have that luxury on the 3rd line like Toronto does. So to expect them to give up that much for a guy who is literally mooching off other players is preposterous. So yes better investments. Especially in those players they could draft rather than bringing in a player that does nothing for Montreal in the immediate future. Especially for 1 season I might add.
22 juin 2022 à 1 h 11
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Quoting: drambui
so do you have any argument about these opinions? you can repeat a 100 times it wont make it more true. how is holl a cap dump? look around the states of RD around the league and the contract that was handed to them. and can you say a dman with 1 year left with his stats getting paid 2mil is a cap dump?


Because Holl is an abysmal defenseman who doesn't play well at all. You want a 3rd round pick for a 6-7D. Nathan Beaulieu who got a conditional 7th round pick that wasn't even met. Stecher for a 7th, Hagg for a 6th, Will Butcher was traded with a 5th round pick and got retained a bit.
22 juin 2022 à 1 h 21
#22
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Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
Because Holl is an abysmal defenseman who doesn't play well at all. You want a 3rd round pick for a 6-7D. Nathan Beaulieu who got a conditional 7th round pick that wasn't even met. Stecher for a 7th, Hagg for a 6th, Will Butcher was traded with a 5th round pick and got retained a bit.


so you said you think he is bad, do you have an argument? you say he is a 7d. how much minutes did he play the last 2 seasons. you might want to look, you could learn something. and of course you named a binch of bad d that were scratched on their respective teams too. was holl scratched or did they even scratch their young Guns cause they prefered he played in the playoff. so, like i said, do you any argument that can based your statement or are you just gonna repeat ''he is bad''?
22 juin 2022 à 1 h 21
#23
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Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
Because Holl is an abysmal defenseman who doesn't play well at all. You want a 3rd round pick for a 6-7D. Nathan Beaulieu who got a conditional 7th round pick that wasn't even met. Stecher for a 7th, Hagg for a 6th, Will Butcher was traded with a 5th round pick and got retained a bit.


Holl played top 4 minutes last year for the Leafs, and played great. He regressed this year because his partner, Muzzin, was injured for the majority of the season. When he played with Giordano towards the end he went back to being a servicable top 4 defenceman.

Obviously he is not a team's first choice to fill out that position, but he's far from a cap dump. Most GMs will look at his size, his cheap contract, his stats, his right-handedness, and his penalty kill abilities and say yes please. Leafs should get a 3rd-4th for him no problem.
22 juin 2022 à 1 h 23
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Quoting: Shylo_Moxii
Ristolainen played Top Pairing minutes, and is Top 4 material. Holl is not even close he's basically a 6-7D. No one is paying that much for 6-7D. It's also not as big of a need in the world anymore. Last year it was. That's the difference. You gotta look at the market.

and to your point on standard points like I said Kerfoot was a line mate merchant. He got most of his assists by plays he did not create at. Montreal does not have that luxury on the 3rd line like Toronto does. So to expect them to give up that much for a guy who is literally mooching off other players is preposterous. So yes better investments. Especially in those players they could draft rather than bringing in a player that does nothing for Montreal in the immediate future. Especially for 1 season I might add.


well i wont argue that kerfoot to Montréal is not a trafe that makes sense, just cause they dont even have a roster spot for him.

i have no clue why or how you can even say that the need for right d ''fixed itself'' within a year. i think its funny even, like where did they all come up from all of a sudden. unless there is something im missing in your explanation that i dont get.
22 juin 2022 à 1 h 47
#25
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Quoting: drambui
so you said you think he is bad, do you have an argument? you say he is a 7d. how much minutes did he play the last 2 seasons. you might want to look, you could learn something. and of course you named a binch of bad d that were scratched on their respective teams too. was holl scratched or did they even scratch their young Guns cause they prefered he played in the playoff. so, like i said, do you any argument that can based your statement or are you just gonna repeat ''he is bad''?


you want argument points got it. 47% WAR for 2 TOI minutes. This is on a team that has less of a depth than say 75% of the league to be quite honest. When you isolate his numbers it's even worse. Quality of Competition is 62% out all average for defenseman. His teammate being Muzzin most of the year is above 70%. So meaning in isolated numbers you don't put him with a 3-4D caliber player he is in fact ineffective. Which is 3rd pairing at best if I'm being generous.
 
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